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Indiana is 1 signature away from Constitutional carry.

Flynn

By Flynn,
in National Politics

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richp Member

richp

Posted
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One might hope -- vainly in this and so many other cases -- that the distinction between lawful possession and unlawful use of a firearm would be clear.

 

Whatever problems there may be with Indiana origins of firearms involved in Illinois crime, lawful carry by Indiana citizens is quite disconnected from illegal gun trafficking and use here.

 

Expanding the rights of Indiana citizens in no way increased the motivation, means, or opportunity of criminals to acquire or use guns illegally.

 

But if you have an anti-gun agenda, why let facts and logic get in the way?

 

Rich Phillips

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SiliconSorcerer Member

SiliconSorcerer

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On 3/22/2022 at 10:48 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Would be nice to get a majority in Congress in the fall and pass this on a National level.

 

I'd like SCOTUS to declare it's a constitutional right and the feds stay out of it.   

If they get into it, it's going to come with more rules, regulations, or licensensing.

They will always be attacking and try to add more restrictions to it. 

 

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SiliconSorcerer Member

SiliconSorcerer

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On 3/22/2022 at 11:14 AM, davel501 said:

That said, it took the ATF less than 30 days to renew my C&R FFL from the time I dropped it in the mail until it hit my mailbox the other day. Maybe the firearm oversight should be left to the feds like the dems have argued immigration should be.

0 Days and not even a stamp is what it should be. 

 

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davel501 Member

davel501

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On 3/22/2022 at 11:18 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

0 Days and not even a stamp is what it should be. 

 

 

I think there is a place for FFLs in the world. The role is more like a bank where they facilitate transfers so you can buy a firearm from out of state and not worry about it getting stolen off your porch. The paper trail also provides some form of title insurance by giving you a third-party paper trail that says you acquired this firearm from x on whatever date. There's also value in having someone that can hold onto firearms during legal or health issues that will actually give them back when it comes time.

 

I actually support seller liability where if you sell a firearm to someone you can be held liable for the future use of that firearm UNLESS the buyer fills out a 4473 and the government approves the transfer at which point you would be free of liability. Straw purchasers should be charged for every crime that gun is used for. $25 at your local FFL is cheap insurance that everything is as much on the up and up as it can be.

 

We agree on tax stamps, they are dumb. Either you are legal to own a firearm, or you aren't. 

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SiliconSorcerer Member

SiliconSorcerer

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On 3/22/2022 at 11:36 AM, davel501 said:

 

I think there is a place for FFLs in the world. The role is more like a bank where they facilitate transfers so you can buy a firearm from out of state and not worry about it getting stolen off your porch. The paper trail also provides some form of title insurance by giving you a third-party paper trail that says you acquired this firearm from x on whatever date. There's also value in having someone that can hold onto firearms during legal or health issues that will actually give them back when it comes time.

 

I actually support seller liability where if you sell a firearm to someone you can be held liable for the future use of that firearm UNLESS the buyer fills out a 4473 and the government approves the transfer at which point you would be free of liability. Straw purchasers should be charged for every crime that gun is used for. $25 at your local FFL is cheap insurance that everything is as much on the up and up as it can be.

 

We agree on tax stamps, they are dumb. Either you are legal to own a firearm, or you aren't. 

I don't think they are history but if you fill out a 4473 and the government approves, what does the FFL do? 

Should be a fill in form and a approval in 1 day, done! 

 

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davel501 Member

davel501

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On 3/22/2022 at 11:59 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I don't think they are history but if you fill out a 4473 and the government approves, what does the FFL do? 

Should be a fill in form and a approval in 1 day, done! 

 

 

The paperwork and retention. Ukraine is reminding us why we don't want our national firearm inventory in a hackable searchable database.

 

Yes, waiting periods are dumb too. Either you are legal to own or you aren't.

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Euler Member

Euler

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On 3/22/2022 at 9:12 PM, Lord_Balkan said:

Does this mean FOID card holders, without CC, can legally carry in Indiana now?

 

Now? No.

Soon? Yes, but IN won't require a FOID.

 

Permitless carry goes into effect July 1 in IN. At that time, any non-prohibited person will be able to carry. Possessing the handgun in IL would be challenging without a FOID, but IN won't require it.

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Lord_Balkan Welcome New Member

Lord_Balkan

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On 3/22/2022 at 8:51 PM, Euler said:

 

Now? No.

Soon? Yes, but IN won't require a FOID.

 

Permitless carry goes into effect July 1 in IN. At that time, any non-prohibited person will be able to carry. Possessing the handgun in IL would be challenging without a FOID, but IN won't require it.

 

Cool. Nice for people who live next to Indiana and/or shop in Indiana for everything

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solareclipse2 Member

solareclipse2

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On 3/22/2022 at 8:55 PM, Lord_Balkan said:

 

Cool. Nice for people who live next to Indiana and/or shop in Indiana for everything

 

Not really. I got myself a Utah non-resident permit before IL had concealed carry because I live maybe 2 miles from the state line. We get gas, shop, and eat in Indiana. It was a pain in the butt to find somewhere to pull over and unload and encase my firearm so that I was legal again in IL. Also a pain crossing into into Indiana to insert a magazine, chamber a round, and holster up. People think it's cool but it gets old real fast. 

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SiliconSorcerer Member

SiliconSorcerer

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On 3/23/2022 at 9:01 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Do you have an Illinois ccl?  I signed up with uscca myself, just in case.  But according to their maps, if you have a permit in Illinois you are ok to carry in Indiana.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what my uscca reciprocity app shows.  

You can carry in Indiana now with CCL license, I don't know however if that concealed or open.  The first time I saw this a young (attractive - oink oink) woman was pushing a stroller with a glock on her hip, all the but the glock -- oink oink 

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solareclipse2 Member

solareclipse2

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On 3/23/2022 at 9:10 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

You can carry in Indiana now with CCL license, I don't know however if that concealed or open.  The first time I saw this a young (attractive - oink oink) woman was pushing a stroller with a glock on her hip, all the but the glock -- oink oink 

 

Indiana makes no distinction between open and concealed carry. I've heard arguments with regard to people from other states, with some saying they have to carry according to their state permit and some saying they follow Indiana law and it doesn't matter how they carry. 

 

Since possession of a firearm is not a crime and not enough for a police officer to stop you, unless you're committing some other crime while open carrying, there's no reason to interact with them enough to get their opinion on the matter. 

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illinois_buckeye Member

illinois_buckeye

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On 3/23/2022 at 9:15 AM, solareclipse2 said:

 

Indiana makes no distinction between open and concealed carry. I've heard arguments with regard to people from other states, with some saying they have to carry according to their state permit and some saying they follow Indiana law and it doesn't matter how they carry. 

 

Since possession of a firearm is not a crime and not enough for a police officer to stop you, unless you're committing some other crime while open carrying, there's no reason to interact with them enough to get their opinion on the matter. 

 

Yeah, I'm just saying if I look at my USCCA map, they show Missouri and Iowa for example as yellow, meaning having restrictions for IL residents.  But that for Indiana and Wisconsin, that they are in green as though there are no restrictions.  Of course look up the law wherever you are traveling, but that map appears to be handy.  

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solareclipse2 Member

solareclipse2

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On 3/23/2022 at 12:54 PM, illinois_buckeye said:

 

Yeah, I'm just saying if I look at my USCCA map, they show Missouri and Iowa for example as yellow, meaning having restrictions for IL residents.  But that for Indiana and Wisconsin, that they are in green as though there are no restrictions.  Of course look up the law wherever you are traveling, but that map appears to be handy.  

 

Interesting. I don't generally go to Missouri but I stopped there a few years ago on a drive to TX and I was open carrying and had no problems and I ended up stopping in a few places in MO due to a flat tire and some other things. 

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Lou Member

Lou

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On 3/24/2022 at 10:31 AM, Ranger said:

OK.  Now you've got my attention.  I thought MO was constitutional carry.  Planning to attend birthday party in St. Louis Saturday night.  Wife has completed training.  Doesn't have CCL yet.  Is she legal to carry around Forrest Park (where party is)?  I have Illinois CCL.  Am I legal?

I just checked the CCW app which lists MO as Constitutional Carry. 
 

MO is 2A friendly but the City of St Louis is dominated by lefties.  They snuck this statute in as a way to prohibit carrying in Forrest Park:

 

Local Ordinances 
St Louis Board Bill 134 (2019) Prohibiting Firearms in City Parks 
The Director of Parks, Recreation and Forestry shall install signs (hereafter the "Signs"), as more specifically provided subsections B and C of this Section One, notifying the public that City of St. Louis parks and park facilities are "child-care facilities" as defined in Section 210.201 of the Revised Statutes of Missouri, and that as child-care facilities carrying or possessing a firearm in City of St. Louis parks and park facilities is prohibited under Section 571.107(11) of the Revised Statutes of Missouri.

 


 Note that carrying in a posted establishment is NOT a criminal offense.  The owner has the right to ask you to leave but If you don’t it’s a ticket for trespassing only.    
IANAL

Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. 

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Ranger Member

Ranger

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Thanks Lou!  Hmmm...  I'm not 100% certain where my wife's friend's birthday party is (i.e. actually within the park or adjoining).  I know they'll have food and some kids will be present (including our young son) so I think we'll probably be safe from the following section applying...

"(7)  Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager.  The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment.  The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food."

http://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.107&bid=29721&hl=

My wife read of an another physician being murdered (probably robbery gone bad) in the evening about a year ago in the parking lot of restaurant not far from where we'll be.

It is a shame that law abiding individuals concerned about their safety have to also be concerned about being prosecuted for keeping the means of self defense on them...  Not sure what we'll do.  I guess if the only riskif we are found in violation is having to leave, that is not bad...

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illinois_buckeye Member

illinois_buckeye

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I'm not 100% sure about constitutional carry if you from out of state.  I think what I've heard is that that's for MO residents, but don't quote me on that.  You might call one of the gun shops over there.  I think one is called The Range St. Louis.  You may go that route.  When I got my illinois ccl, I called the St. Charles police department and they gave me a name for a local gun shop that had a lot of former law enforcement working there.  The guys there said I was good, and the guys at the normal range I go to in Illinois had said the same.  I work in Missouri, and to my knowledge you are fine if you have the Illinois ccl.  Double check with a gun shop/maybe a local sheriff in MO in regards to ccl, and especially about if you don't have ccl.  But my understanding from the guys I talked to and the USCCA maps, is that if you have an Illinois ccl you are good. 

 

 

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/il-gun-laws/#recRestricted

 

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Euler Member

Euler

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On 3/24/2022 at 4:53 PM, illinois_buckeye said:

I'm not 100% sure about constitutional carry if you from out of state.  ...  I work in Missouri, and to my knowledge you are fine if you have the Illinois ccl.  ...

 

In the past there have been several states that had permitless carry only for residents. As of now, I believe North Dakota is the only permitless carry state that denies permitless carry to non-residents. I'd like to be able to point to handgunlaw.us for that, but their page on ND is currently having an identity crisis.

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Xwing Member

Xwing

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On 3/24/2022 at 6:45 PM, Euler said:

 

In the past there have been several states that had permitless carry only for residents. As of now, I believe North Dakota is the only permitless carry state that denies permitless carry to non-residents. I'd like to be able to point to handgunlaw.us for that, but their page on ND is currently having an identity crisis.

 

You are correct.  ND is the only Const. Carry state where Const. Carry is for residents only. 

As of 7/1/22, any person who is not prohibited by statute (e.g. felon, convicted domestic abuser) can carry in Indiana without any license.  Same will be true on 6/13/22 for Ohio and 7/2/23 for Alabama.

 

But it wasn't much of a hurdle anyway, since Indiana recognizes all firearm carry licenses from any state or country.  I legally carried every time I visited Indiana long before Illinois issued licenses.

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