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What exactly is so bad about Kee Firearms' CCL class?


spiderk
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I hear their name pop up from time to time on the ILGuns subreddit, often in a negative light. At $0 for the actual class and roughly $40 for the range fee, they are the absolute cheapest option being offered in the Chicago area, and for many that's hard to pass up. But almost all the time when the notion of a 'free' class is brought up its followed by a "you get what you pay for." I am definitely familiar with the concept that lower quality is to be expected with lower cost and I certainly see how it might apply in this specific situation but not a single time when this is brought up, were there specific examples comparing like "X was taught at Kee, when I renewed my CCL elsewhere, the other place taught Y, and it turns out X was flat out wrong" or something along those lines. What I want to get to the bottom of here is on exactly -how- they have such a negative opinion from people regarding the material actually being taught and possibly extending to the teaching style of the specific instructor. I am also aware that they use the free class to pressure students into giving a good review of their store on google maps or whatever, and I know that can come across underhanded, but for me it is neither surprising nor a dealbreaker.

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You are required to complete 10 hours of training (over 2 days) before you attend the 6 hours of range time.

Looks like range days are always Sundays.

CCL class

CCL class days

CL class evenings

Not sure what the Online classes might be. Did see a sign up form which said 71 slots still open for Feb 24th?  And a review where to person they had 100 students and they all passed!

 

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On 2/8/2022 at 8:36 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

A lot of people probably wonder if you are paying much less than an amount like that, what are they cutting out, or are they giving proper training.  

 

Yes, that was something I was hoping to get to the bottom of in this thread. If anyone's taken this class and has thoughts on it, have at it.

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On 2/8/2022 at 8:36 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

I can say when I took my CCL training it cost me 150 for the class.  Which I don't like paying 150, but that seems fair.  A lot of people probably wonder if you are paying much less than an amount like that, what are they cutting out, or are they giving proper training.  

 

On 2/8/2022 at 10:28 PM, spiderk said:

 

Yes, that was something I was hoping to get to the bottom of in this thread. If anyone's taken this class and has thoughts on it, have at it.


So, if you only paid $150 and others are paying $250 do you also believe that those (like you) paying $150 are being shortchanged on their training as well??

 

We just saw an instructor who charged $150 get busted for fraudulent training, does that mean your $150 class was fraudulent too?


Note, I know nothing about the training in question, I’m just saying judging the quality of training based upon the cost is utterly ridiculous.

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I look at it this way, the ISP has set forth requirements for what has to be in the training classes and has to approve the curriculum for you to be an approved instructor so if a curriculum was approved and the instructor teaching that it doesn't matter what a student pays if they can afford that cost and it doesn't matter what an instructor charges or doesn't charge if they can afford that cost as well. Now, if you're paying $250 per class and not getting the most out of it I'd say you have an argument to be made. Now if you're not paying for the class and you get your license and everything is fine then you're good. 

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On 2/8/2022 at 10:28 PM, spiderk said:

 

Yes, that was something I was hoping to get to the bottom of in this thread. If anyone's taken this class and has thoughts on it, have at it.

 

It's common for retailers to offer loss leaders to get customers in their store, and some folks are so dedicated to the Second Amendment that they offer free instruction. Kee is not the only one doing it. See the Illinois' 1st Black-Owned Gun Range topic for discussion about another one in Bridgeview.

 

The title of this topic seems to assume things about Kee that probably aren't true. Rather than fishing for problems I'd suggest accepting their willingness to help at face value, unless you have specific evidence to the contrary.

 

 

 

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I never took classes there, but I like Kee for firearms and ammunition.  They are very easy to deal with.  As Mauser said, LOSS LEADER.  You get tons of new firearms owners or owners to be into the store.  You can sell them their guns, their ammo, holsters, etc., and at the same time promote the Second Amendment.  I've seen far worse tactics from some shops that charge you for their classes, believe me!  I'm dreading renewing again.  I've been safely using firearms since 1973, I grew up with them, and I loathe having to go in there and have to be "taught" things I've known well since before most of the others in the class were even born.  These restrictions and conditions the Illinois Kommies put on our Second Amendment rights are really getting out of hand.

 

Sorry to get off topic.  I'm going to say that for someone to join here just to slam a specific gun shop and imply that they are improperly instructing and passing hundreds of concealed carriers smells to me of a Democrat gun-grabbing plant trying to stir up "evidence" to take those students' CCL's away and put a very popular gun shop out of business.  Don't pay your dime to cross the bridge -- ignore the bridgekeeper and keep on moving!

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On 2/8/2022 at 8:36 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

I can say when I took my CCL training it cost me 150 for the class.  Which I don't like paying 150, but that seems fair.  A lot of people probably wonder if you are paying much less than an amount like that, what are they cutting out, or are they giving proper training.  

 

On 2/8/2022 at 10:28 PM, spiderk said:

 

Yes, that was something I was hoping to get to the bottom of in this thread. If anyone's taken this class and has thoughts on it, have at it.

Seriously???  And why, pray tell, do YOU need to "get to the bottom of" that in this, your one and only thread?  

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Because I’ve signed up for an upcoming class, lol. I am familiar with certain cases where ISP has revoked CCLs based off improper instruction in cases unrelated to kee, but im sorry you misread me doing my due diligence as some sort of conspiratorial slander campaign against them. I’ve never stepped foot into kee and I have no bias towards them one way or another but if you look on the ILguns subreddit, there is without fail, a “you get what you pay for” remark every time their class is brought up. 

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On 2/9/2022 at 1:46 PM, spiderk said:

Because I’ve signed up for an upcoming class, lol. I am familiar with certain cases where ISP has revoked CCLs based off improper instruction in cases unrelated to kee, but im sorry you misread me doing my due diligence as some sort of conspiratorial slander campaign against them. I’ve never stepped foot into kee and I have no bias towards them one way or another but if you look on the ILguns subreddit, there is without fail, a “you get what you pay for” remark every time their class is brought up. 

Even if that were the case, why would you want to go onto a site for the first time and ask for unverified gossip about them???  You say you have no bias toward them, but you have made all sorts of allegations, including this gem:  "what I want to get to the bottom of here is on exactly -how- they have such a negative opinion from people regarding the material actually being taught and possibly extending to the teaching style of the specific instructor. I am also aware that they use the free class to pressure students into giving a good review of their store on google maps or whatever, and I know that can come across underhanded."  You aren't asking for opinions, you are asking for negative commentary and allegations to supplement your own.

 

For God's sake, it's a FREE class, and YOU claim to be taking advantage of it!  If you're so worried about YOU, yourself, being at risk, then don't accept the freebie and go pay for it somewhere else.  You want to invite the destruction of a business's reputation and people's livelihoods -- not to mention the validity of people's training -- because you're worried something they are offering you FOR FREE may not be of value to YOU?  How does publicly slagging a gun shop which has trained hundreds if not thousands of concealed carriers act to ADVANCE the cause here or anywhere???  I don't buy it.  Either way, it stinks, and can only provide fodder for the Moms, Plakey and the rest of their ilk.

Edited by 2A4Cook
typo
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On 2/9/2022 at 1:46 PM, spiderk said:

Because I’ve signed up for an upcoming class, lol. I am familiar with certain cases where ISP has revoked CCLs based off improper instruction in cases unrelated to kee, but im sorry you misread me doing my due diligence as some sort of conspiratorial slander campaign against them. I’ve never stepped foot into kee and I have no bias towards them one way or another but if you look on the ILguns subreddit, there is without fail, a “you get what you pay for” remark every time their class is brought up. 

 

"You get what you pay for" is usually tossed out as an offhand comment by folks who have no direct knowledge of the subject.

 

Why don't you take the class and let us know how it goes.  It will only cost a few hours of your time.

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Hello All! 

   My Name is Gavin Regnier I am The General Manager as well as the Head Instructor here at KEE FIREARMS AND TRAINING. I want to just let everyone know that our instructors all are certified instructors through ISP and have very extensive backgrounds. Our instructors have backgrounds in the police and military.

 

We offer FREE training because as many know it's expensive to go out and get trained for a ccl and then you have to pay $150 to the ISP. We want to give everyone a chance to get trained and be safe with firearms. A lot of people don't have that money or get discouraged because of how expensive it is, our goal is to strengthen the 2A Community. There is no scheme in any of this, there is no secret. We just want to give back and let everyone have a fair chance to get trained, I mean it is your right.  As you all see, some instructors take full advantage of people in these classes and it isn't fair.  So what we realized from us giving back is that we changed the prices others charge for classes. Now yes we train hundreds of students every class, we work with every student by teaching them how to properly use a firearm, we have people that we fail and make them come back a different time and we take the time to work with them to enhance there skills for free, other instructors charge $100 and hour and up for a "Private" Lesson. Also we learned that the majority of our classes are WOMEN! Oftentimes they are too intimidated to go to other classes because men just push them down and tell them what they need and bully them into thinking that they cant use firearms, or they go to the range with their husbands and they give them a 44 magnum and laugh when it scares them. This just ruins their idea of firearms. So, we are striving to make all people feel welcomed into the 2A Community and try to help them understand firearms and the safety of them. We want to show that firearms are dangerous if used improperly and that firearms can be used for good and protection. So it is much more that "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" and all the other lies people say about how poor the training. If you ask me, I think that we provide quality training and that it is better than a class where they charge $150-$600 for the class because, WE CARE and WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE BE SAFE, rather than just take peoples money. 

 

Here are out fees for everyone wondering:

Class - FREE (No Cost)

Range Fee - $30 (Mandatory)

Gun Rental w/ ammo - $30 (Optional) 

Fingerprints - $65 (Optional) 

Application submission assistance - $40 (Optional) 

 

So I will Break it down:

Class - Obviously it is free, no funny business.

 

Range Fee - is $30 and everyone has to pay due to us having to pay a range fee per person, Targets, and Insurance Requirements. 

 

Gun Rental w/ ammo - We charge $30 to use a Firearm with pre-loaded (3) 10 rnd magazines or the Student must have (3) 10 round magazines of their own, or the equivalent to 30 rounds in order to use their own gun. 

 

Fingerprints - Is $65, this seems to be a pretty inexpensive fingerprint cost due to the fact others charge a lot more for the same service. We have seen people charging $95 since there has been talk of it being mandatory. Yet we have not changed our cost at all. 

 

Application submissions assistance - this is $40, we offer this because we noticed a lot of people don't have computers or a way to upload documents via scanner. Some older people don't have the skills to use a computer. Some people need help with their logins (we all know that is a pain). So we give the people who pay for this a one on one with a person from our shop to sit down with them and submit their application and scan and upload documents and pictures. This to help people in need.

 

As you can see none of our prices are out of line and only one of them is a mandatory fee, the rest is optional. So we are giving people excellent firearms training for a very affordable price. We want to see the communities be safe with firearms and we want to strengthen the firearms community. 

 

I, Gavin Regnier, encourage anyone with any questions or doubts to call or text me via phone at 331-775-1582 or via email at gavin@kee2010.com. I would encourage people to come sit in our classes and see for themselves so you can make your own opinion on us. 

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Hi Gavin, thanks for setting the record straight.  I take it that the 10 hr classroom session on one day followed by a 6 hour range day is due to the large number of students in each class who need to qualify? It raises the question in my mind, If a student is in the first group at the range, what do they do for the remaining 5-1/2+ hours while there and so on?  

Edited by RandyP
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I can’t say I’ve personally been to that shop,  was just saying what people may perceive.  Kudos to the owner for his post.  Hopefully he is successful with getting new gun owners the training they need to be safe.  
 

I do not know everything by any stretch, my first handgun was purchased in 2020.  I know a lot of people are probably like I was and almost a little scared of handguns at first.  It’s good to know there are places where you can get professional training.

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On 2/9/2022 at 2:54 PM, Kee Firearms said:

Hello All! 

   My Name is Gavin Regnier I am The General Manager as well as the Head Instructor here at KEE FIREARMS AND TRAINING. I want to just let everyone know that our instructors all are certified instructors through ISP and have very extensive backgrounds. Our instructors have backgrounds in the police and military...

 

 

Nice to have you here, Gavin!

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On 2/9/2022 at 2:43 PM, mauserme said:

Why don't you take the class and let us know how it goes.  It will only cost a few hours of your time.

 

Yea, I plan on doing so. I wouldn't sign up if I had no intention of showing up.

 

Not sure how the intent of this thread could have been misunderstood by so many people. Again, if I saw someone asking a set of questions surrounding a store, legal entity, etc. with a focus on a specific aspect of them, my first assumption wouldn't be that they had some sort of bone to pick. In fact I would say that if they did have some kind of vendetta, that merely asking some questions would be a really poor way of "getting back at them." 

 

I'm glad Gavin saw this and was able to respond directly. Its clear he values transparency and that goes appreciated. I'm looking forward to the class, but I just wanted to get an idea of it in the meantime as its over a month out currently.

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To make sure they are getting the training required by law, the main questions for students to ask are: 

 

Are all the topics listed on the certificate taught?

 

Are the minimum or more of the time limits spent instructing each of those topics?

 

Do the total hours of instruction equal 16 hours - breaks, lunch, drive time to ranges do not count - total hours are just as important as the topics covered. 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

They pressure you to buy their stuff for two straight days and make you feel like an idiot when you don’t.
 

They brought in a USCCA salesman and made us clap every time he came in and out of the room, not exaggerating. Lots of pressure to sign up and buy stuff right away without any mention of alternatives (you should do your homework and take your time when finding the best match for insurance).
 

Some people in the store are wonderfully helpful, others have a power trip and like yelling at people for having their phones out, even for a second to check the time etc.

 

We are serious about training but it’s a 16 hour sales pitch to be honest. In retrospect we would’ve paid for a better and smaller class that didn’t make you feel like a child for a whole weekend. If the class could be summed up in one emoji it’d be that eye rolling one.

 

(also the person who mentioned the pressure to write good reviews is dead on, there is literally designated time for it and they pressure you to do it asap - not even going home first and writing a comprehensive one) 

Edited by SumKallMeTIM
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  • 4 months later...

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