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New FOID/CCL Cards Beginning 1-1-2022


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On 12/19/2021 at 7:25 PM, Euler said:

 

It implies it for any other card from any other state. Obviously cops and firearm vendors check for revocation/suspension, too, but anyone else only ever looks at the expiration date.

 

When you interact with someone who needs to see your DL, unless they're a cop, they don't call the DMV.

Nor do any of them pay any attention to expiration date.  Illinois used to allow, and may still do, DL renewal by mail that did not reissue a card but simply a sticker for the back —- did that once, and never had anybody ever look at said sticker except a cop who said he didn’t care about it since his system told him what he needed to know….

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On 12/19/2021 at 7:27 PM, Euler said:

 

You appear to have misunderstood my assertion, then. Checking the expiration date = checking the validity (in that vast majority of cases). That's what expiration means.

 

In that "checking the validity" is now being given a meaning other than looking at a printed expiration date, your assertion that it  has "always been the law" is most certainly not correct.

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On 12/19/2021 at 7:00 PM, Tip said:

I haven’t seen the new law.

Have some questions though.

 

Is the law codified to require expiration checks by vendors?

Is it even codified to require validity checks by vendors?

What, exactly, are the requirements placed upon vendors?

 

Might a vendor require a “Valid FOID” with the caveat that by providing a copy of your FOID you attest that you possess a legal, valid, unexpired FOID.

 

After all, they set the precedent by allowing CCL holders to present an expired CCL as valid by attesting that you have applied for renewal.

 

Yep, this could get really ugly. Illinois is certainly not known for writing clear, concise, complete laws….

 

and here it's not so much the law, as it is the rule making authority that had this new law dropped in their lap.

 

This is rule making that is a consequence of the new law.

Is it an unintended consequence?

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On 12/19/2021 at 1:51 PM, mikew said:

I could see myself holding onto a FOID card that still has an expiration date on it.


Or will the state come out and say that a FOID with a date on it is invalid?

 

#4 - Looks like there will be an additional number for security.  My guess is that this number will come into play when “checking validity”.  

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A few questions 

 

Has JCAR approved these new rules, if so, where can we find this?

 

By reading the OP, I am under the impression that this new FOID card will also be your CCL because of the CCL endorsement in the top corner of the new card. Am I right?

 

If I'm correct on the above,  then will there be 2 expiration dates that we have to be worried about? 

 

FOID = 10 Years

FCCL = 5 Years 

Does anyone see how this is going to work logistically or realistically?

 

I think it's time we all start calling our representatives and senators.  🤬🤬

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On 12/20/2021 at 9:37 AM, Molly B. said:

I have presented the question to ISP:  For ammo sales, why aren't dealers offered the option to look at the issue date and just add 10 years?

 

From a cynical point of view- If you are not issued an expiration date on an "identity card", to check on the validity of the card, you would need to verify with the issuer. By "requiring" to validate with the issuer, the issuer now has the ability not only to verify the identity, but to also track the usage (or view requests) of the card.  So any "transaction" which would require the presentation of a valid FOID card could be tracked. Also, please keep in mind that this could be done by other systems. For example, when your license plate number is placed into to the "system" for verification, if the registrants driver licence is attached to a FOID card, the FOID card information is pulled in conjunction with the plate. If (and this is a big if) the ISP is going to track all verifications of the validation of FOIDS, they could track anytime the FOID information is pulled in correlation to the running of a license plate number. (Obviously, this could also be done now)

 

I am not saying this is the explicit intent, but can show some of the uses by requiring consistent validation of a card number vs. having a static expiration date placed on a card.

 

Paranoia- maybe a little. A view to the future- you be the judge.

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On 12/20/2021 at 11:05 AM, THE KING said:

... will there be 2 expiration dates that we have to be worried about? 

 

FOID = 10 Years

FCCL = 5 Years 

Does anyone see how this is going to work logistically or realistically?

...

 

The FOID is supposed to be renewed automagically when the CCL is renewed, among other things. Presumably anyone who lets their CCL expire gets a new card without the "CCL" endorsement. Similarly, someone with a new CCL just gets a new FOID with "CCL" on it.

 

On 12/20/2021 at 8:32 AM, abolt243 said:

#4 - Looks like there will be an additional number for security.  My guess is that this number will come into play when “checking validity”.  

 

I'd laugh if the new "security code" is just the expiration date.

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One reason that's being used, for the ammo purchase check I'm told is because in the past if they revoked your FOID and you didn't surrender it and they couldn't find you,or just didn't try, you couldn't make LEGAL gun purchases because your FOID would fail as being revoked.But if the expiration date on the card  was still in the future,you could still be able to buy ammo at a retail location because the card was still valid at face value.This is supposed to fix this I'm told.

I am not saying this logic is good,just passing along what I had told to me today.Just wait until the system crashes because of "higher than normal demand" and nobody can buy anything FOID related.Waiting periods on ammo can't be too far away.

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On 12/19/2021 at 9:06 AM, Molly B. said:

The ISP conducted a webinar this past week with IL licensed firearm dealers to give them a heads-up on the new FOID/CCL cards to be issued after 1-1-2022.

 

Notes of interest:

 

1. New FOID cards will be issued without expiration dates - there will still be expiration dates but not printed on the card.

 

2. CCL will be indicated on the top right-hand of the card.

 

3.  Old FOID cards with expiration dates will be phased out throughout the year with new cards issued to current card holders.

 

4. New cards will have an additional number at the bottom of the card for added security.

 

5.  Ammunition sales:  Due to not having the expiration date on the cards, dealers will have to verify the validity of the card electronically or by phone for ammo sales

 

6. Dealers will leave the 'expiration date of identification" blank on their 4473s

#6 is going to be an interesting one. The 4473s are federal forms not state forms, I am interested to see if the ATF Investigators are going to tell ISP to pound sand. Part of the IFDL was for the state to have access to 4473 forms for audit purposes. When the state 1st came in to audit FFL Dealers in the beginning, they were auditing 4473 forms. A few dealers called the ATF Investigators and told them what the state was doing and it didn't take long b4 the ATF told ISP that the 4473 were federal forms subject to federal audit, not state audit. That was a good part of the IFDL and the state lost it. Now they just want to ding you on safe storage, the size of your signage, if your ammo is accessible to customers even though I have been into multiple places where the ammo is on open shelves. Let's see who's going to TRUMP who on this one.

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On 12/20/2021 at 8:43 PM, Molly B. said:

ATF was on the call and was the person who said to leave expiration date blank. 

 

Can't remember his name. 

That is good to hear, did ISP elaborate a little more on #5? I could not get through on the Webmaster app and gave up on the phone after about 25 minutes. Running a FOID Check at my home-based business location is not a problem but the gun shows are a whole different ballgame. Some of the gun shows have very little internet connection and I am restarting my phone multiple times to get connection. And when you're busy, that could pose a big problem at the gun shows.

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On 12/21/2021 at 10:17 AM, ealcala31 said:

That is good to hear, did ISP elaborate a little more on #5? I could not get through on the Webmaster app and gave up on the phone after about 25 minutes. Running a FOID Check at my home-based business location is not a problem but the gun shows are a whole different ballgame. Some of the gun shows have very little internet connection and I am restarting my phone multiple times to get connection. And when you're busy, that could pose a big problem at the gun shows.



They said FFLs would need to use the online webpage used for private transfers or the phone number for private transfers.

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That 

On 12/21/2021 at 10:20 AM, Molly B. said:



They said FFLs would need to use the online webpage used for private transfers or the phone number for private transfers.

That is going to suck at gun shows with little to no internet connection and trying to call on your phone entering the entire FOID card # with 3 or 4 customers waiting. A huge #c×. No disrespect to you...

Edited by ealcala31
Autocorrect
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On 12/23/2021 at 7:34 AM, mauserme said:

Now the ISRA is trying to blame others for the expiration date mess, and predictably take credit for processing time improvements that have occurred before their new law has taken effect.

 

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This blows my mind.  Sullivan is clueless on this - the complaints about the expiration dates on the cards wasn't that anyone wanted the date removed.  We all wanted ISP to issue renewals according to the law - prior to the expiration date!  Trying to say Todd wanted the date "removed" is simply crazy.

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On 12/23/2021 at 8:46 AM, Molly B. said:

 

 

This blows my mind.  Sullivan is clueless on this - the complaints about the expiration dates on the cards wasn't that anyone wanted the date removed.  We all wanted ISP to issue renewals according to the law - prior to the expiration date!  Trying to say Todd wanted the date "removed" is simply crazy.

 

He's actually suggesting we should be grateful to the ISRA for finally realizing this is a problem, and for taking someone else's idea to try to fix the mess they created.

 

575618782_DontThankISRA.PNG.370f18d798ef25fd550077b82ea2a4ce.PNG

 

 

 

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Valinda thanks for the kind words. 

It is true Sullivan is trying to blame me which makes no sense as I/the FFLs were the ones screaming the loudest about expired FOID cards and trying to process gun sales. This appears to be another damage control move on their part knowing that this is going to slap every gun owner in the face in the next 18-24 months and then as an ISRA representative try to say I have no clue about what I'm talking about. 

I will leave it to the people here to decided who to believe and trust on these issues. After all, one group was Neutral and I testified against it. . .

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