New FOID/CCL Cards Beginning 1-1-2022

[Smallbore]

On 2/6/2022 at 1:48 PM, John Q Public said:

I advised students to leave their FOID card at home and just carry their CCL. In case it's lost or stolen, you can still buy and transport. Now, with one card, if lost or stolen both are invalid. ~Sigh~  Just another thing to throw on the pile. If someone mentioned this, sorry.

 

JQ

My foid card is good till 2028. I will hang on to it. Keep it in the safe.

[illinois_buckeye]

Glad I work in Missouri.  Might be making extra stops over there.

[Stats]

Received "new" FOID "card" today in the mail. (I have a CCL that was renewed, with finger prints last August) The new card does NOT have a formal issue date (the "Print date" is buried in the AL number) nor does it have and expiration date. The card does have an "indicator" on the card that is set to "Y".  The card also states that it "does not authorize the carrying of a concealed carry weapon"

 

As for my card processing:

Previous card expired: 5/1/2022

Renewal Submitted: 12/8/2021

Card Print date: 1/28/2022

Card received: 2/11/2022

 

So, what would the point of having an indicator on the card (which should relate to CCL status), yet the card says it "does not authorize the carrying of a concealed carry weapon" Also, if the card was really to be "modernized", why does the card not any barcoding, a QR code or a RFID chip for ease of processing. My overall expectations were for the indicator to say "CCL" and for there to be no restrictions listed on the license. I got these expectations from the press release sent out by the ISP as well as their sample cards.

 

My point being (to the ISP), why even bother. I would understand if the new card a consolidated card, but to send out a new card with no expiration date? I will still have to carry two cards.

 

I have to say that the ISP is continuing its tradition of "unacceptable" (The Director's assessment) behaviors/ outcomes.

 

 

[soundguy]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:24 PM, Stats said:

So, what would the point of having an indicator on the card (which should relate to CCL status), yet the card says it "does not authorize the carrying of a concealed carry weapon"

 

Pointless... but you must have your CCL on you when carrying. The FOID, even with a CCL Indicator, is not sufficient for carry, so it must state that.

[illinois_buckeye]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think I was told I'd get a new foid with the ccl designation.

[Molly B.]

The foid with ccl indicator is going to be the only card we have to carry.  So indeed it is a ccl card that says Cc not authorized. Only in IL.

[Stats]

I do know and always respect the carrying of the CCL card. Why did the ISP go on a PR blitz to say that to modernize the FOID there was only going to be ONE card for FOID and CCL card holders. https://www.wcia.com/news/state-police-remind-of-foid-card-changes-in-new-year/

 

I do understand that to carry, I must have a CCL card to carry. The ISP "sold us" on a consolidated card in order to "fix" things. I get a non consolidated card? Really? Does the ISP even read their own press release or look to follow-up on demo cards that it release to the public via the press?

 

The ISP has set a new level on ineptitude.

[Euler]

Based on the IL "modernization" bill and the federal "modernization" bill, "modernization" appears to be a gun-control codeword for ""universal background check." It was never meant to be more than that.

[Stats]

On 2/11/2022 at 3:17 PM, Euler said:

a gun-control codeword for ""universal background check."

And "Universal Background Check" is a codeword (phrase) for "gun registry".  So the slippery slope keeps on getting more slippery (and steeper).

[BRJ]

Sounds the start of a Willis plan

[markthesignguy]

the FOID  may be active and printed "ACTIVE   PRINTED 2/1/2022"

 

but it hasn't showed up in my mailbox

 

i guess this will apply :

 

Your card is valid. If your card was recently issued, it is on its way to you. Please allow time for printing and mailing. Please contact our office if you have not received the card within 45 days of the issue date.

[Jackleg]

My FOID expired 02/01/2022.  My CCL expires 03/02/2-23.  Renewed my FOID 12/19/2021.  Received my new "combined" FOID/CCL 02/17/2022.  No CCL indicator, only "Y" as an indicator.  I have no idea what that means!  Looking online at my account, the FOID renewal was printed 1/28/2022 and the expiration date is 01/28/2032, in 10 years and my CCL account says the same print date and the same expiration date.  Still not sure why the "Y" indicator means and why the reported "CCL" is not there instead.  But from my account online I am assuming both expire in 10 years.  Yes, I do know what assume means and what is online is what the ISP will go by.  I did receive my renewal letter and so did my wife and when she received her new card, the CCL indicator says "N".  which I assume means NO since she does not have her CCL.  So, I'm guessing that the Indicator is for the CCL as previously indicated last December, but instead of it saying CCL, they simply changed it (without telling anyone) to Y for yes and N for no.  Typical.

Edited February 14, 2022 at 09:29 PM by Jackleg
Punctuation

[Molly B.]

The 'Y' indicator means yes for CCL.  No, only the FOID expiration date is 2032.  Your CCL will still expire on 03/02/2023.

[mkhalil61]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:24 PM, Stats said:

Received "new" FOID "card" today in the mail. (I have a CCL that was renewed, with finger prints last August) The new card does NOT have a formal issue date (the "Print date" is buried in the AL number) nor does it have and expiration date. The card does have an "indicator" on the card that is set to "Y".  The card also states that it "does not authorize the carrying of a concealed carry weapon"

 

 

 

 

Typical ISP garbage. Just another way to complicate everyone's lives. I could imagine an out of state cop getting confused with this "NEW" combined FOID/CCL. 

[Euler]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:34 PM, mkhalil61 said:

Typical ISP garbage. Just another way to complicate everyone's lives. I could imagine an out of state cop getting confused with this "NEW" combined FOID/CCL. 

 

An out-of-state cop isn't going to care about your piece of plastic. He'll only care about what his mobile terminal says. For that matter, that's all an in-state cop is probably going to care about, too.

[Stats]

On 2/14/2022 at 3:28 PM, Jackleg said:

No CCL indicator, only "Y" as an indicator. 

I think that the indicator "Y" is supposed to mean that you are a CCL "cardholder". It look like our cards were printed on the same day. One question for you- On the bottom of the front of your card is there wording that states: "Caution: This card does not permit bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms. This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon."

 

I think that if does say this, the indicator would be contradictory to the disclaimer on the bottom.

[drumgod]

I have a valid ccl that (supposedly, but not really in reality) works as a foid... and now a un-expiring foid that has a Y on it that I gather is supposed to work as a CCL... but has verbiage on it directly saying it does not... What am I supposed to put in my wallet?  Are we back to carrying both?

 

Generally speaking, what exactly is the purpose of the new foid if it doesn't "authorize" anything without calling the state for authorization? This whole thing is a joke.

[spanishjames]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:45 AM, Stats said:

I think that the indicator "Y" is supposed to mean that you are a CCL "cardholder". It look like our cards were printed on the same day. One question for you- On the bottom of the front of your card is there wording that states: "Caution: This card does not permit bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms. This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon."

 

I think that if does say this, the indicator would be contradictory to the disclaimer on the bottom.

My wife's new card says "CCL" after indicator. She had a regular CCL, and renewed her FOID card. Received the new combined card a few weeks after renewal. 

[Stats]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:40 PM, spanishjames said:

My wife's new card says "CCL" after indicator. She had a regular CCL, and renewed her FOID card. Received the new combined card a few weeks after renewal. 

Does your wife's combined card, which has an indicator of "CCL", have the wording (on the front bottom portion of the combined card) of:  This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon."

 

That correlation I am trying to make here is that on some (or many) of the newly issued "combined" FOID/CCL "cards" that if:

 

Indicator = "Y" then wording on the front (bottom) of the card says:  "This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon."

-or-

Indicator = "CCL" then wording on the front (bottom) of the card says:  "This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon." IS NOT INCLUDED ON THE FRONT OF THE CARD.

 

I am just looking to see if there was a "printing" (or use of incorrect materials) when the cards were produced. This would be somewhat consistent with the issue that ISP had last year. Last year, from January to April the ISP admitted that about 1% of the cards issued January to April had incorrect pictures on the card (https://abc7chicago.com/foid-card-illinois-application-)renewal/10768765/) As a side note, over 176,000 FOID cards, (new and renewal) were issued from January to April, 2021.

[Euler]

Verbiage included or not included is just another example of how somebody didn't think through how it was supposed to work. They just copied over the wording from the old FOID, despite the fact that the new FOID is also a CCL.

[spanishjames]

On 2/15/2022 at 3:14 PM, Stats said:

Does your wife's combined card, which has an indicator of "CCL", have the wording (on the front bottom portion of the combined card) of:  This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon."

 

That correlation I am trying to make here is that on some (or many) of the newly issued "combined" FOID/CCL "cards" that if:

 

Indicator = "Y" then wording on the front (bottom) of the card says:  "This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon."

-or-

Indicator = "CCL" then wording on the front (bottom) of the card says:  "This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon." IS NOT INCLUDED ON THE FRONT OF THE CARD.

 

I am just looking to see if there was a "printing" (or use of incorrect materials) when the cards were produced. This would be somewhat consistent with the issue that ISP had last year. Last year, from January to April the ISP admitted that about 1% of the cards issued January to April had incorrect pictures on the card (https://abc7chicago.com/foid-card-illinois-application-)renewal/10768765/) As a side note, over 176,000 FOID cards, (new and renewal) were issued from January to April, 2021.

It does!  Didn't even notice that when we got it. I told her to just keep carrying her CCL until all this is sorted out. 

[spanishjames]

It does say it doesn't permit the bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry a firearm.....

 

Then it says it does not authorize carrying either. SMH

[Roger Z]

It appears the ISP is using the current version of the FOID card stock and simply changed the programming to print the desired new fields on the card. The current FOID card has the identical text on the bottom indicating the card does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon.

This is of course confusing but not totally unexpected.  Apparently the ISP is just using up the current inventory of unprinted FOID cards.  Hopefully they will order replacement cards without the current statement on the bottom of the card.

 

[davel501]

Old FOID card (Issued 9/27/2021): 

 

Quote

CAUTION: This card does not permit the bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms.

This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon.

 

 

New FOID card with CCL indicator:

 

Quote

CAUTION: This card does not permit the bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 at 11:47 PM by davel501

[Stats]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:24 PM, Roger Z said:

This is of course confusing but not totally unexpected.

 

This situation never should have been expected. Anticipated, maybe, but it should not have been expected.  The chain of events and logic you layout seem reasonable to justify what happened. But the issuance of the card with a conflicting Indicator and verbiage as to conceal carry is not permitted is, probably,  in the favorite term of the Director of the ISP, "unacceptable". In my opinion, the ISP could have prevented this issue by issuing the FOID in the old format, with an expirations date (until it got the new new card stock).

 

Also, this shows that the ISP has little to no controls over it processes. The ISP was very quick to issue press releases with the new card and the new format with out the the conflicting language. Yet it failed in the final delivery. Someone in the ISP should have caught this. If the ISP uses a "fulfillment" or card printing vendor, the vendor should have been notified of the specific changes. Either way, someone should have caught the issue ISP or potential vendor.

 

Going further upstream, the ISP might not be the only ones culpable. The General Legislature passed the bill that consolidated the FOID/CCL in late June under the premise that the bill was needed urgently to fix the backlog. Also, the bill was passed as the session was winding down, in haste, as legislators using a video conference "exception" or were rushing to get home. The governor waited over one month (between his vacation schedule and probably waiting for a photo opportunity) to sign the bill.

 

All of these factors put the recourse/ technology/ project management strapped ISP in a precarious situation to make (and hopefully test) major changes to systems/ processes of  an organization that received an adverse (rare) operational audit opinion from an external auditor.

 

Now, would this impact an individual? in reality, I am not sure. Maybe local law enforcement (Illinois) would use LEADS and know what to expect (and ignore the language on the bottom of the card) . As for other states that might accept the Illinois CCL, I do not know. Maybe the out of state agency would have electronic access to the CCL information. Or maybe, just maybe, the out of state law enforcement agent would see the wording and detain an individual further to research the situation. I am really hoping that the ISP holds up to its' directors pledge to make things easier on the good guys. Maybe we are not there yet. Or maybe law abiding "cardholders" are not really the good guys. (Makes you think)

 

So anticipated- yes. But as a stakeholder and a tax payor, this type of outcome should never be expected. The ISP should get the 5 "P" award- Piss Poor Prior Proper Planning. Or better yet- 8 Ps- Piss Poor Prior Proper Planning Produces Poor Performance

 

[Roger Z]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:07 PM, Stats said:

 

This situation never should have been expected. Anticipated, maybe, but it should not have been expected.  The chain of events and logic you layout seem reasonable to justify what happened. But the issuance of the card with a conflicting Indicator and verbiage as to conceal carry is not permitted is, probably,  in the favorite term of the Director of the ISP, "unacceptable". In my opinion, the ISP could have prevented this issue by issuing the FOID in the old format, with an expirations date (until it got the new new card stock).

 

 

 

You are of course correct that this never should have happened for all the reasons you state.  If this was a private company it would never have been tolerated.  But given the year in / year out performance of the ISP Firearms Service Bureau what can an Illinois citizen expect?  They have had no problem violating the law in regard to the timely issuance of FOID and CCL.  The Director can talk all he wants about his concern for license holders but color me old and cynical.  The Legislature doesn't care either.  They have let this situation exist for years without caring to get involved.  Individual members of the legislature. have certainly been made aware of the situation by their constituents.  It is my opinion that neither the upper echelon of the ISP nor the majority of the Illinois Legislature believe citizens should be allowed to carry a firearm.  They were forced in to it by the courts.

 

I just don't have very high expectations for an adverse operational audit to cause any significant real improvement in the performance of the FSB.  I have never worked for state government but I suspect entrenched bureaucracy is resistant to change and difficult to fix.  I reiterate my comment about the state's feelings in regard to citizens and firearms so I doubt if anyone who could have an effect on the audit findings has any real desire to do so..  I also doubt if the individual FSB employee cares if an Illinois resident is detained because of the conflicting wording.  They certainly should but I question if they actually do.

[davel501]

It's not them using up old card stock.

 

They are screwing something else up because some people are getting the correct wording.

 

This looks more like the same old ISP FSB incompetence. 

[cls74]

Sorry if asked already but, what information is sent to ISP during the FOID check?

 

5.  Ammunition sales:  Due to not having the expiration date on the cards, dealers will have to verify the validity of the card electronically or by phone for ammo sales

 

If I buy a bucket of .22lr, 50 rounds of .45acp and 500 rounds .556 what is included in the "validation of FOID" call/electronic exchange. Rather than having the back of FOID scanned at the register can we request a call in instead to validate the FOID is valid?

 

 

 

[Molly B.]

Should just be FOID and date of birth.

[1700715]

Guys,  I think there is confusion on the new FOID/CCL  that definitely needs to be clarified.  I am aware of the combining of FOID &CCL cards but considering that CCL expires every 5 yrs & the FOID every 10yrs.  How do they keep that updated? If you don't renew your CCL and your FOID remains valid you end up having a FOID that says you have a CCL when you don't.  I think what they meant is that your foid will indicate whether or not you also have a CCL . I think we will still be issued separate CCL cards.   I have recently renewed my FOID  & my CCL is valid til 2024.  If the new FOID card is supposed to be a combined FOID/CCL wouldn't we be told that our old CCL card should be destroyed upon receipt of our new FOID/CCL combo card?  Aren't we told to destroy our old FOID card when receive our new Foid card?  Let's hope it gets fixed/clarified sooner than later.