NYSRPA v Bruen (Corlett) - May-issue challenge

[starwatcher]

No one brought up that the state/police has no duty to protect its citizens.

 

If the state disarms its citizens it should be responsible for their safety.

[JTHunter]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:24 PM, starwatcher said:

No one brought up that the state/police has no duty to protect its citizens.

 

If the state disarms its citizens it should be responsible for their safety.

 

There are some states that have passed laws that puts the onus on private businesses that post their business.  If they ban carry of any kind, then those businesses could be held liable (and sued) by victims of an attack on business property.

[Fuddly]

On 11/3/2021 at 4:14 PM, starwatcher said:

I haven't listened to everything yet.

 

One thing that stood out to me is the subway attack example, yet no justice brought up Lozito v. New York City.

 

Just because police are in the area, that means nothing since they have no duty to protect or help you.

I was listening to an analysis of the arguments and the jist here was that a crowded city, because of higher crime, has a greater need for allowing citizens to arm themselves for protection. 

[soundguy]

“call me old fashioned but I think the state should have a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence”  

 

Chris Hayes

[Hap]

Here is a transcript of the oral arguments, from the SCOTUS web site.

 

 

20-843_8n5a.pdf

[BobPistol]

On 11/3/2021 at 8:42 PM, soundguy said:

“call me old fashioned but I think the state should have a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence”  

 

Chris Hayes

 

Totalitarians will Totalitarian.

 

[Flynn]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:24 PM, starwatcher said:

If the state disarms its citizens it should be responsible for their safety.

 

And both criminally and civily liable for all harm they fail to protect the citizens from!

[Plinkermostly]

Does the 'State' have a duty to protect its citizens??? 

 

 

Police (big NO, South vs Maryland)!  OSHA?  Congress (LOL)?

 

2nd amendment is for self-protection -- and to keep the govment (sic) in line (which is self protection also), right?

[SiliconSorcerer]

I don't understand why the answer to the question about if it can be restricted in a place that serves alcohol isn't only if the person is drinking

Does someone else's activity restrict your 2nd rights? 

I mean you can't carry if the Cheesecake Factory when your going for diner because they serve alcohol? 

Yeah I know but I ignore their restriction because there is no sign on any door.   On the wall walking in, is not the law. 

[mab22]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:06 AM, Plinkermostly said:

Does the 'State' have a duty to protect its citizens??? 

 

 

Police (big NO, South vs Maryland)!  OSHA?  Congress (LOL)?

 

2nd amendment is for self-protection -- and to keep the govment (sic) in line (which is self protection also), right?

In the preamble to the Illinois state constitution it does state “ 

insure domestic tranquility; provide for the common defense

“
 

[Plinkermostly]

IMHO:

 

Common defense and tranquility are a long way from a carjacking.

 

AND it's a good point  -- if you aren't drinking, why should it affect your rights?

 

 

 

'Cause it makes 'them' feel unsafe -- 'mkay

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 at 04:10 PM by Plinkermostly

[mikew]

Cook Co Public Defender chimes in, in favor of NYSRPA:

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/gun-control-supreme-court/

There’s No Second Amendment on the South Side of Chicago

Why public defenders are standing with the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association in the Supreme Court.

I think about a man my office represents, a father of four kids and professional driver, who purchased a firearm after being caught in the cross fire of a shooting on the freeway. He was willing to do anything to keep himself and his family safe. But he was Black. Shortly after he started carrying a gun for his own protection, suburban police arrested him and prosecutors charged him with a felony for not having the right license.

 

I also think about the hundreds of young Black men my office represents every year, arrested and facing years in prison for simple possession of a gun because they were terrified, but didn’t have enough money, the wherewithal, or time to purchase a license. Often, they are denied a license because of a prior drug conviction—an obstacle to licensure that their white counterparts, far less likely to be arrested for drug possession than Black and brown Americans, do not face.

 

I think about how differently they would be treated by police and prosecutors if they were born a different color, lived in a different area of the state. Here’s the stark reality of injustice: Over 75 percent of firearm possession convictions in Illinois occur in Cook County, in a few Chicago neighborhoods.

[BobPistol]

Delete

Edited December 6, 2021 at 03:26 PM by BobPistol

[Euler]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:39 AM, mikew said:

Cook Co Public Defender chimes in, in favor of NYSRPA:

...

I also think about the hundreds of young Black men my office represents every year, arrested and facing years in prison for simple possession of a gun because they were terrified, but didn’t have enough money, the wherewithal, or time to purchase a license. Often, they are denied a license because of a prior drug conviction—an obstacle to licensure ...

 

Unless the court decides that permitless carry is the law throughout the nation, this case is unlikely to change the problems he describes, although I suppose it's a start. If the "prior drug conviction" is a felony, then there's really no hope in the NYSPRA case.

 

Personally, I think too many crimes are felonies. Once upon a time, felonies were crimes for which the death penalty was an option: murder, rape, burglary, and treason. With the decline of death sentencing, there's been an increase in categorizing lesser crimes as felonies, which only leads to disfavored individuals being convicted of felonies. Favored individuals are pled to misdemeanors or not even charged at all. NYSRPA isn't going to change any of that.

 

But if this article means somebody somewhere is half waking up to reality, half is better than nothing.

[mab22]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:39 AM, mikew said:

Cook Co Public Defender chimes in, in favor of NYSRPA:

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/gun-control-supreme-court/

There’s No Second Amendment on the South Side of Chicago

Why public defenders are standing with the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association in the Supreme Court.

I think about a man my office represents, a father of four kids and professional driver, who purchased a firearm after being caught in the cross fire of a shooting on the freeway. He was willing to do anything to keep himself and his family safe. But he was Black. Shortly after he started carrying a gun for his own protection, suburban police arrested him and prosecutors charged him with a felony for not having the right license.

 

I also think about the hundreds of young Black men my office represents every year, arrested and facing years in prison for simple possession of a gun because they were terrified, but didn’t have enough money, the wherewithal, or time to purchase a license. Often, they are denied a license because of a prior drug conviction—an obstacle to licensure that their white counterparts, far less likely to be arrested for drug possession than Black and brown Americans, do not face.

 

I think about how differently they would be treated by police and prosecutors if they were born a different color, lived in a different area of the state. Here’s the stark reality of injustice: Over 75 percent of firearm possession convictions in Illinois occur in Cook County, in a few Chicago neighborhoods.

Yet they keep electing the same Democrats that keep ramming these restrictions through, making concealed carry costs high, and making various drug possessions a felony. 
 

[Flynn]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:28 PM, Euler said:

Personally, I think too many crimes are felonies.

 

You are not alone, they have certainly diluted what felonies were originally supposed to be.  There are so many non-violet crimes that in no way should cause one to lose a protected right for life.  The war on drugs has created a ton of them even for end users.

Edited December 9, 2021 at 05:44 AM by Flynn

[mikew]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:28 PM, Euler said:

 

Personally, I think too many crimes are felonies.

At one time I fully expected to see felony jaywalking in my lifetime.

 

Now we see no charges filed for crimes of violence.

[Euler]

On 12/9/2021 at 3:56 PM, mikew said:

At one time I fully expected to see felony jaywalking in my lifetime.

 

Now we see no charges filed for crimes of violence.

 

You can still have both. They're not incompatible.

[Bitter Clinger]

Well, we already have indefinite incarceration for alleged "trespassing" in DC, which include solitary confinement, torture and other abuses.

 

[RECarry]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:21 PM, Bitter Clinger said:

Well, we already have indefinite incarceration for alleged "trespassing" in DC, which include solitary confinement, torture and other abuses.

 

January 6th: The day it became apparent that Property Rights, the defense thereof, and the DOJ only exist for members of Congress. 

[Flynn]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:21 PM, Bitter Clinger said:

Well, we already have indefinite incarceration for alleged "trespassing" in DC, which include solitary confinement, torture and other abuses.

 

Most of us are old enough to remember when the US adamantly condemed such treatement, calling it authoritism and political persecution.

[EdDinIL]

Guns & Gadgets thinks a SCOTUS ruling is expected soon.

 

https://youtu.be/c0fGjB1ruHQ

[Silhouette]

G&G has a nice analysis of SCOTUS process there.  One thing missing from the analysis is mention of dissents.  Cases with significant dissenting opinions that are designed to gain support from other justices or are intended to introduce competing legal theories typically are released much later as these dissenting opinions take a great deal of time.  The suggestion that this opinion will be written by Thomas is solid analysis.