RIP ammunition for conceal carry?

[Glockman1997]

Hello all I was wondering if any one knew the answer on if we can conceal carry RIP (radically invasive projectile) ammunition or not 

Thanks in advance 

 

[Euler]

It's legal. It's also really just frangible ammo, which is not particularly effective for self-defense, despite its name. But if you really want it, it's legal.

[Birddog38]

Test results are poor. Keep in mind what a talented prosecutor can present that ammo as in a self defense trial. I'll stick to hollow points. 

[Euler]

Here's something posted in another thread a while ago. (Link didn't work, so here it is.)

 

On 8/28/2018 at 3:56 PM, Euler said:

 

On 8/28/2018 at 8:03 AM, 2A4Cook said:

...

Using some high tech "murder round" will put you at risk should you ever wake up to that dreaded day when you have no choice but to defend yourself. You WILL be portrayed by an Illinois prosecutor as some kind of vigilante "Death Wish" character just waiting for the chance to shoot somebody. I would never take that risk when there is standard LEO ammo available that will do the job quite nicely. May as well just get a set of Punisher grips and a holster with a blood splatter paint job to join the murder ammo in the evidence locker.

 

When I read that, what comes to mind is:

 

Quote

G2 Research has entered the market with a new line of self-defense ammunition that is built around concealability. The ... radically invasive projectile (RIP) is a new twist in the line of hollow point defense.

 

The ... Radically Invasive Projectile (RIP) is a solid copper hollow point that has been fragmented into multiple projectiles along the bullets nose. Upon impact, the six razor sharp edges that form the bullet’s face separate from the body of the projectile outward into a conical pattern. This approach utilizes the complete opposite effect of bullet retention, and instead seeks to break the round into 7 distinct projectiles (six projectiles plus to core of the bullet) that each individual cause sharp force trauma within the terminal cavity.

 

The six individual RIPs that construct the bullets nose are individually capable of penetrating multiple layers of dense fabric, and inflict simultaneous injuries upon impact. This effect is capable of stopping even the gravest of threats, and takes ... lethality to level previous unheard of for small caliber rounds.

 

However, independent reviews indicate that it barely penetrates anything or does much damage at all. Basically they came up with a name and marketing some people will think is cool, but I'd bet juries will think is sociopathic. Compare their marketing photo to the verbal description.

 

I'm inclined to think they just peeled back the blades with a pair of pliers.

...

[2A4Cook]

Any kind of gimmicky ammo not only exposes you to potential prosecution as an "assassin," but also to overpenetration, failure to bring down your intended target, etc.  Nobody has yet managed to beat the all around performance (and acceptance) of hollow point ammunition.  I stick to Federal HST or Ranger T in 45acp and in shorter barreled 9mm's, and Remington Black Belt in service barreled 9mm's.  

 

Also, bear in mind that all the advertising showing the alleged "effectiveness" of gimmick ammo is done in bare get.  That's fine if you are afraid of getting attacked at a streaker convention or nudist colony, but not much anywhere else.  If a naked dude is running at you, it's best to just run away ...  🤣

[DoYouFeelLucky]

Here in IA and also in KS it seems that the SA's first action is to try and prove that the shooter was looking to put themselves in scenarios where they would need to use their weapon.  A highly modified weapon with self-defense ammunition is their first presentation to a grand jury that they should indict.  An unmodified weapon with FMJ ammunition is probably the best way to mitigate this tactic.

[2A4Cook]

Maybe by their twisted "logic," but using FMJ is irresponsible due to the potential danger to bystanders from a pass-through.  Besides, I don't think there's any question people carry because of self-defense concerns.  Using law enforcement ammo allows you a counter-argument to their crazed "vigilante" allegations.  What are you going to say about the FMJ, you were concealing in case an impromptu target competition broke out?

[DoYouFeelLucky]

Yes your honor, I was on my way to the target range and legally carrying my weapon, and the big bad scary person tried to harm me.  

[vito]

I use Hornady Critical Defense or Speer hollow point in my carry guns, all legal and hopefully not in the least bit controversial. And I don't wear aggressive sounding themed t-shirts, or hats, or put "Defended by Smith and Wesson" or similar stickers on the bumpers of my vehicles. I used  to have a "Molon labe" bumper sticker on one of my cars, but peeled that off years ago. And normally I do not carry a speed strip or second (or third) magazine, genuinely believing that if the rare possibility ever develops that I need to defend myself, the rounds in the gun itself will be enough to stop the threat or let me leave the area safely. 

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

There isn't any law that I am aware of that says you can't carry it, however it isn't what I would carry. Youre probably better off with a good quality jacketed hollow point. 

 

Check the lucky gunner website for test results from different JHP ammo. 

[RandyP]

IMHO in the HIGHLY unlikely event of my ever needing to draw and fire my handgun in a self-defense scenario, any kind of hollow point ammo will serve me just fine and dandy. My carry choice is factory made stuff - normally whatever was on sale at my LGS that I then function proved at the range in my chosen handgun. I remain of the opinion that shot placement ALWAYS trumps choice of specific ammo type/make or caliber.

[mrgridlock]

I think it was a Paul Harrell video where he talked about the [potential] problems with your carry ammo choice: one being that people could be profiled based on carrying ammo that police used (because serial killers liked to copy what police did), etc.  So if you're carrying Critical Duty, maybe a State's Attorney could go after you, if they so chose.  OTOH, carrying RIP ammo could say something about you, too.

 

Whatever you carry, make sure you have an attorney (carry insurance) and clearly state your 6th Amendment right to one if arrested for a self-defense shooting.

[quackersmacker]

On 9/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, mrgridlock said:

I think it was a Paul Harrell video where he talked about the [potential] problems with your carry ammo choice: one being that people could be profiled based on carrying ammo that police used (because serial killers liked to copy what police did), etc.  So if you're carrying Critical Duty, maybe a State's Attorney could go after you, if they so chose.  OTOH, carrying RIP ammo could say something about you, too.

 

Whatever you carry, make sure you have an attorney (carry insurance) and clearly state your 6th Amendment right to one if arrested for a self-defense shooting.

I dunno.  Might want to go a bit slow on raising the 6th unless things are getting ugly.  If they don't Mirandize you that could be an easy defense.  Just don't talk too much.  I learned that one time when I was on the good side of an FBI sting involving stock certificate counterfeiting.

[JTHunter]

If you are using HP ammo, there is something you can do that might help IF there is exposed lead.  Take a very sharp knife, put the blade's edge across the top of the cavity and gently tap with a small hammer to create between 4 and 6 notches around the rim.  It is like cutting a pie into either quarters (1/4th) or sixths (1/6th).  If the jacket material below the exposed lead is also grooved, line up your cuts with those grooves.  You would only need to do this to maybe 3-8 bullets total.  Just don't tap too hard.  You don't want the bullet to be pushed deeper into the case.

[jim123]

Maybe just pick something from here?

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

[Vern in IL]

On 8/15/2021 at 7:57 AM, 2A4Cook said:

 Nobody has yet managed to beat the all around performance (and acceptance) of hollow point ammunition.  I stick to Federal HST or Ranger T in 45acp and in shorter barreled 9mm's, and Remington Black Belt in service barreled 9mm's.  

 

Also, bear in mind that all the advertising showing the alleged "effectiveness" of gimmick ammo is done in bare get.  That's fine if you are afraid of getting attacked at a streaker convention or nudist colony, but not much anywhere else.  If a naked dude is running at you, it's best to just run away ...  🤣

I disagree, I really like Underwoods' all copper bullet.  shoots straight through windshields(which was important during the riots) and does not deflect, as well as not "pack up" if your attacker is wearing thick denim.  Again if shooting though glass and thick materials, I'm not choosing hollowpoints.

 

I don't play "what ifs" all I care is if I need to defend my life, evil will not have opportunity to testify in a court against me.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:37 AM, Vern in IL said:

I disagree, I really like Underwoods' all copper bullet.  shoots straight through windshields(which was important during the riots) and does not deflect, as well as not "pack up" if your attacker is wearing thick denim.  Again if shooting though glass and thick materials, I'm not choosing hollowpoints.

 

I don't play "what ifs" all I care is if I need to defend my life, evil will not have opportunity to testify in a court against me.

Well I carry ARX so everyone should TEST and carry what they like.  

If I found RIP ammo at an sane price I'd probably buy and test but I like what I use.  ARX 9mm +P 

Curious is the case stamped RIP or who's brass is it?