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ISRA on the dodge


Felixd
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Yep. He’s the shotgun expert. Check his post count, he has a lot to say. Todd V talked to him and set him straight on ISRA issues he had wrong.

 

I knew someone had posted a link to that conversation, but couldn't remember who or where. Is he on Todd's (our) side now, or is he still firmly in the ISRA camp?

 

My two cents: By keeping quiet until the vote was complete, the ISRA thought it would be better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Had they gone to the members ahead of the vote and asked our opinions, I'm sure most of us would have told them to say no as loudly as possible.

 

Fast forward to the future: If the bills actually don't pass and everything is improved because the ISRA still has a seat at the table, I'll eat my words. I don't see it happening.

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Yep. He’s the shotgun expert. Check his post count, he has a lot to say. Todd V talked to him and set him straight on ISRA issues he had wrong.

 

I knew someone had posted a link to that conversation, but couldn't remember who or where. Is he on Todd's (our) side now, or is he still firmly in the ISRA camp?

 

My two cents: By keeping quiet until the vote was complete, the ISRA thought it would be better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Had they gone to the members ahead of the vote and asked our opinions, I'm sure most of us would have told them to say no as loudly as possible.

 

Fast forward to the future: If the bills actually don't pass and everything is improved because the ISRA still has a seat at the table, I'll eat my words. I don't see it happening.

 

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=534196&start=40

 

Has he circled back to defending the ISRA?

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Seems to be, although he's bashing them at the same time.

 

 

Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:07 pm

From his last post, No, the ISRA did not act against the best interests of its membership, they supported zero gun bills, and with a puny 25,000 members, anyone who thinks they can negotiate much is delusional, not good at math, or both.
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Has he circled back to defending the ISRA?

Can you name the alleged 'socialist' Democrats, who they 'negotiated' with, when, and over what exactly? ...

 

Your claims are nonsense. It isn't a fact at all, not remotely close, just an anonymous rant that is fact-free. Many people don't agree at all with the vitriol: several FFL's I've spoken with do not agree, either. I certainly do not. I happily support the ISRA and will continue to do so.

...

Perhaps he'll require pictures and phone tap recordings next. I'd say that's a "yes."

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I knew someone had posted a link to that conversation, but couldn't remember who or where. Is he on Todd's (our) side now, or is he still firmly in the ISRA camp?

 

My two cents: By keeping quiet until the vote was complete, the ISRA thought it would be better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Had they gone to the members ahead of the vote and asked our opinions, I'm sure most of us would have told them to say no as loudly as possible.

 

Fast forward to the future: If the bills actually don't pass and everything is improved because the ISRA still has a seat at the table, I'll eat my words. I don't see it happening.

If you follow this through the several months of their negotiations it's clear that first, they really thought this was a good thing and second, they weren't able to understand why others didn't support it including groups that were in touch with them about it. As we said in one of our alerts, they lost themselves in the process of negotiation. They lost site of the reason they exist.

 

To this day I wonder if they can see the problems they've created.

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After reading some of shotgun experts posts, he made alot of sense pertaining to the electorate and gun owners. About 70% of my gun sales are to Cook County voters, pretty much everyone of them are Democrats and voted the party line this last election. They voted against their own interests and are proud of it. Many actually believe MDA supports laws that are about "Gun Safety." Almost all of my Black customers don't even know who Otis McDonald is or McDonald vs Chicago, but they know who George Floyd is, pitiful. You know Chicago's mentality, especially after having handgun ownership banned for 28.5yrs, "you have to catch me 1st." Edited by ealcala31
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After reading some of shotgun experts posts, he made alot of sense pertaining to the electorate and gun owners. About 70% of my gun sales are to Cook County voters, pretty much everyone of them are Democrats and voted the party line this last election. They voted against their own interests and are proud of it. Many actually believe MDA supports laws that are about "Gun Safety." Almost all of my Black customers don't even know who Otis McDonald is or McDonald vs Chicago, but they know who George Floyd is, pitiful. You know Chicago's mentality, especially after having handgun ownership banned for 28.5yrs, "you have to catch me 1st."

Maybe it would be appropriate to hang up some photos of Otis in your business area where customers might wait around. Put a small plaque under the 8X10 of Otis and explain why he's the patron saint of self defense in Chicago. See if that gets them talking and interested.

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After reading some of shotgun experts posts, he made alot of sense pertaining to the electorate and gun owners. About 70% of my gun sales are to Cook County voters, pretty much everyone of them are Democrats and voted the party line this last election. They voted against their own interests and are proud of it. Many actually believe MDA supports laws that are about "Gun Safety." Almost all of my Black customers don't even know who Otis McDonald is or McDonald vs Chicago, but they know who George Floyd is, pitiful. You know Chicago's mentality, especially after having handgun ownership banned for 28.5yrs, "you have to catch me 1st."

 

Maybe it would be appropriate to hang up some photos of Otis in your business area where customers might wait around. Put a small plaque under the 8X10 of Otis and explain why he's the patron saint of self defense in Chicago. See if that gets them talking and interested.
I have too much "Gun $h!t" in my dining room already, according to my wife. I told my wife I was going to buy a 40in screen TV and turn it on when customers are here. I was going to put on 3Gun Nation episodes and Shooting USA. She had the, "I'll kill you with your own gun," look on her face. I think she's warming up to it a little since I agreed to refinish the hardwood floors in the dining room. Right next to the TV will be a pic of D.C. vs Heller & McDonald vs Chicago...
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He’s buds with Pearson, sees him often at the ISRA range. He really believes in the ISRA and feels their position is reasonable knowing what we are dealing with in Springfield. He talked to Todd and then urged all to file WSs and contact their reps in opposition. I feel one can support an organization and be critical of certain positions. Many here are gonna walk. To each his own.

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Ladies and Gents -

IMO, apparently ISRA did "mishandle" the communication about their stances on these bills.

But I don't blame them for this situation, I blame the politicians who created this morass in the first place.

The problem is that, thanks to the way this state has been gerrymandered and how the "low information voters" (who only care about what they can get from the government) vote, we don't have the ability to thwart their mismanagement and depredations - at this time.

Do we give up and let them destroy this state? No - NO - heck NO !! I doubt that we can actually STOP the liberals from taking Illinois down the same road as "Kookyfornia", but we can try. Either that or pick up the pieces after the libs have ruined things and rebuild the state.

Edited by JTHunter
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Until gun rights groups go straight into Cook County and knock on doors to speak to Chicago residents and pass out literature, we will always fail. We need to tell Chicago Democrats that you can vote Democrat but tell your alderman/state rep/state senator that your 2nd Amendment viewpoint has changed and you want them to stop voting in support of gun control bills. 2A will always lose if we don't start trying to change a few of these machine voters. Many of them are pro-2A, they just never tell their reps that their viewpoint has changed. If we don't even try, we are going to lose in Springfield almost all the time.
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Ladies and Gents -

IMO, apparently ISRA did "mishandle" the communication about their stances on these bills.

But I don't blame them for this situation,

They cast themselves as the "professionals". They are paid lobbyists who do not take into account how actions and communications will be seen by the membership and the (future/former/fence-sitting) non-membership. Or if they do take it into account, then quickly discount it: You can always explain it later when people are pi$$ed off.

 

It's not like no one ever commented on this to the ISRA board, officers, executive and lobbyists.

 

They have been dealt a crappy hand, it's a bad situation, but they come out of the situation having a PR issue. So yes, there's some blame.

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The broader argument concerning state politics and how we arrived where we are today should be without standing in this conversation. The argument at hand is the action not taken by the leadership of the ISRA and the effects that has had on the membership and shooters. Regardless of their assumptions as to “our only choice” their non action has created a void in confidence by members that lessens the political muscle of the organization for the future.

 

I will remain a member of the IRSA, but will criticize them when I believe their actions, or non actions, warrant it. I will continue to contribute money to the ISRA to prevent the state government from any more infringements of our civil right as ISRA can be effective when directed properly.

 

I shall also continue the call for new leadership at the ISRA. The current leaders appear to have assumed proprietorship of the organization. This usually means complacency takes command and assumptions lead decisions. It appears this may have happened in May. The continuing refusal of leadership to address their non action, despite angry criticism, indicates arrogance. Arrogance usually indicates a dismissive attitude, in this case dismissive of membership. All this leads to the need for change. We need new leadership open to ideas and willing to work with everyone for the good of everyone.

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Kind of reminds me of years ago when the ISRA refused to endorse Rauner because they didn't "know enough about him." WTH??? All a thinking person needed to know was that he was an R and his opponent was anti-gun. Should have been an automatic endorsement. But Pearson "didn't know enough." I never understood that.

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The broader argument concerning state politics and how we arrived where we are today should be without standing in this conversation. The argument at hand is the action not taken by the leadership of the ISRA and the effects that has had on the membership and shooters. Regardless of their assumptions as to “our only choice” their non action has created a void in confidence by members that lessens the political muscle of the organization for the future.

 

I will remain a member of the IRSA, but will criticize them when I believe their actions, or non actions, warrant it. I will continue to contribute money to the ISRA to prevent the state government from any more infringements of our civil right as ISRA can be effective when directed properly.

 

I shall also continue the call for new leadership at the ISRA. The current leaders appear to have assumed proprietorship of the organization. This usually means complacency takes command and assumptions lead decisions. It appears this may have happened in May. The continuing refusal of leadership to address their non action, despite angry criticism, indicates arrogance. Arrogance usually indicates a dismissive attitude, in this case dismissive of membership. All this leads to the need for change. We need new leadership open to ideas and willing to work with everyone for the good of everyone.

I'm not sure about non-action. I think the ISRA took deliberate actions including shopping around this "neutral" bill, and getting the ISRA membership ready for it as early as March 24 on Facebook and March 25 on the Thursday Bulletin. All leading up to taking a deliberate posture of being "neutral" to help the final bill's passage.

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Over 12,772,000 Illinois residents fall under the "non-action" category, less than 2,000 residents took action. Of those 2,000 residents that took action 3 of them represent ISRA.

 

Those 3 took very deliberate action, even according to their own private 'statements'.

 

That deliberate action negatively impacts the 2A rights of Illinois residents.

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The broader argument concerning state politics and how we arrived where we are today should be without standing in this conversation. The argument at hand is the action not taken by the leadership of the ISRA and the effects that has had on the membership and shooters. Regardless of their assumptions as to “our only choice” their non action has created a void in confidence by members that lessens the political muscle of the organization for the future.

 

I will remain a member of the IRSA, but will criticize them when I believe their actions, or non actions, warrant it. I will continue to contribute money to the ISRA to prevent the state government from any more infringements of our civil right as ISRA can be effective when directed properly.

 

I shall also continue the call for new leadership at the ISRA. The current leaders appear to have assumed proprietorship of the organization. This usually means complacency takes command and assumptions lead decisions. It appears this may have happened in May. The continuing refusal of leadership to address their non action, despite angry criticism, indicates arrogance. Arrogance usually indicates a dismissive attitude, in this case dismissive of membership. All this leads to the need for change. We need new leadership open to ideas and willing to work with everyone for the good of everyone.

I'm not sure about non-action. I think the ISRA took deliberate actions including shopping around this "neutral" bill, and getting the ISRA membership ready for it as early as March 24 on Facebook and March 25 on the Thursday Bulletin. All leading up to taking a deliberate posture of being "neutral" to help the final bill's passage.

 

This may well be the case, but our best interest lies in changing leadership. If we all leave ISRA they, who made the decision to cooperate, will remain in their positions. We need a strong state organization that will say no to liberal Democrats and RHINOs. The voice of the membership must be heard and recognized. Leadership must be accountable for their actions.

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... About 70% of my gun sales are to Cook County voters, pretty much everyone of them are Democrats and voted the party line this last election. They voted against their own interests and are proud of it. Many actually believe MDA supports laws that are about "Gun Safety." ...

MDA has a better PR campaign than any pro-2A organization.

 

I believe it was 2 years ago that MDA had some "gun safety" event in a downstate county and invited the sheriff. Even the sheriff didn't understand that "gun safety" is a code phrase for "gun control."

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MDA has a better PR campaign than any pro-2A organization.

I believe it was 2 years ago that MDA had some "gun safety" event in a downstate county and invited the sheriff. Even the sheriff didn't understand that "gun safety" is a code phrase for "gun control."

 

 

All the anti-gun groups create buzzwords and use those created buzzwords to rally behind as a smoke and mirrors game, it works quite well for them as the mindless sheep gobble it up. "Common Sense" "Assualt Weapon" "Assault Rifle" "Weapons of War" "High Capacity" "High Caliber" "Ghost Gun"

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... About 70% of my gun sales are to Cook County voters, pretty much everyone of them are Democrats and voted the party line this last election. They voted against their own interests and are proud of it. Many actually believe MDA supports laws that are about "Gun Safety." ...

MDA has a better PR campaign than any pro-2A organization.I believe it was 2 years ago that MDA had some "gun safety" event in a downstate county and invited the sheriff. Even the sheriff didn't understand that "gun safety" is a code phrase for "gun control."

Yeah we whistle blew on that and caused some problems for MDA there lol

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/23/2021 at 9:00 AM, EdDinIL said:

...

Fast forward to the future: If the bills actually don't pass and everything is improved because the ISRA still has a seat at the table, I'll eat my words. I don't see it happening.

 

There are echoes of this issue in Florida right now, the up-shot being that SAF is saying mean things about GOA, apparently provoked by GOA saying something critical about SAF once combined with some more recent events.

GOA

GOA said:

...

As you know, GOA is a no-compromise group, which means that we will never give politicians a pass for compromising -- no matter what their party affiliation. GOA has been critical of many Florida legislators for refusing to pass substantive pro-gun bills. And ultimately, we are being attacked for holding accountable one legislator in particular: Rep. Cord Byrd (R).

...

GOA doesn't compromise, and we never have during our 40-plus years in operation. And while that drives some politicians crazy, it also upsets some gun owners who are willing to compromise if it means that they can have a "seat at the table."

...

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On 9/10/2021 at 3:22 PM, soundguy said:

 

Or Robert E Lee... since his name is in the news, of late.

 

A traitor to his oath no doubt..... but entirely unrelated on principle

 

He abandoned the post to fight for what he believed in. Arnold abandoned his post simply out of personal interest to remain relevant ahd keep a seat at the table of those he thought would eventually win.

 

This is what some or many of these gun groups do. They meter out concessions on our rights simply for the privilege of remaining at the table and relevant. They have no real interest in the cause other than personal gain.

Edited by cope
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On 9/10/2021 at 6:35 PM, cope said:

 

A traitor to his oath no doubt..... but entirely unrelated on principle

 

He (Robert E Lee) abandoned the post to fight for what he believed in. Arnold abandoned his post simply out of personal interest to remain relevant and keep a seat at the table of those he thought would eventually win.

 

I see no difference. Lee wanted to keep things status quo. So did Arnold.

Both chose based on personal interest.

 

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On 6/3/2021 at 3:03 PM, steveTA84 said:

People are extremely upset and want answers. Their membership will decline as a result and some outlets already are covering it (and not in a good light)

My ISRA membership was up for renewal in July of 2021.  I did not renew my membership and let the ISRA know that I am very unhappy with their helping the Democrats push through the latest legislation that targets lawful firearm owners.

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