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Have FOID and Medical Marijuana card. Applied for CCW was denied and now FOID revoked.


dogmomjen

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Hi everyone,

 

Here is the story. I have had my FOID card since 07/18. No issues at all. I have purchased 2 firearms, both instant approval. I even have TSA precheck. Back in September I applied for Illinois medical marijuana card and was approved. In December I took the CCW 16 hour class and passed. I waited for Illinois to have recreational marijuana before applying for my CCW. I applied on 01/02/20. When I did apply I did answer yes to the question about drugs on the application since marijuana was still illegal federally and it is illegal to lie on the form. I was just trying to be honest. I even brought the question up in my class to see if I would have any issues. I am about to go turn in my FOID card and transfer my firearms to my husband. I just want to go about resolving this the best way possible so I can appeal the denial/revocation. What a headache.

 

Thanks for listening

 

-Jen

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Did you receive anything in the mail or did you find out thru the ISP web site about your revocation? Because , you should receive a letter in the mail informing you of the foid revocation & that letter should include info how to appeal the revocation.

If you did receive a letter in the mail & it did not include info on how to appeal you will have to read 430ILCS 65/10.

 

Sent from my LM-V450 using Tapatalk

 

 

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If your appeal is succesdful, you can have a FOID and CCL along with a MMJ card, BUT you will not be approved for any future FFL purchase, private sales only. MMJ card needs to be expired for a year iirc before able to make FFL purchases again.

 

per the FSB FAQ

 

If I am a qualifying patient or designated caregiver pursuant to the Compassionate Use of Medical Cannabis Pilot Program Act and hold a valid Medical Cannabis Card, are my Firearms Owners Identification Card and Concealed Carry License still valid?

 

Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege

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This is larger than just not being able to use an FFL for transfers. If you have a medical mj card you are a prohibited person at the federal level for 1 year after you let that mmj card go. If you have a run-in with the feds that ends up with them finding out you have firearms then you are looking at 10 years in federal prison. This is really broken.

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You couldve checked no and if they go after you claim at the time you were a caretaker, not a user. There would be no way to prove it. Not a lawyer or legal advice

 

My friend got denied that way. Getting an mj ticket or an mmj card buys you at least a year in the federal penalty box. With the card you stay there until a year after the card expires.

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I have questions on this. I do not have a card or use drugs. But to me there is a difference in having a card and using. You can get a card and even purchase weed but not use it. I know this seems strange but it plausible, which would mean it would need to be proven that you used it. Just having a card and filling a scrip. does not mean you have used......

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First, it is ILLEGAL for the ISP, per state law, to take your FOID / CCL based ONLY on a MMC.

 

Second, it is ILLEGAL, for you, if you actually smoke pot, MMC or no, under federal law, to possess any firearm.

 

Third, it is ILLEGAL, per state law, for the ISP to DENY a FTIP, and it is ILLEGAL, per state law, for ISP to APPROVE a FTIP, for a MMC holder (maybe). Bottom line, ISP thinks its illegal and there is a good argument they are correct, and a good argument they are wrong. Thus, ISP will simply neither approve, nor disapprove a FTIP for a MMC holder, and thus, its up to the FFL whether they want to proceed with the transfer after 72 hours of no approval. Its illegal, under federal law, for the FFL to transfer if they KNOW or SHOULD KNOW that the issue is pot, but of course, ISP will not tell you its the issue, so unless the buyer volunteers it, how does the seller know?

 

IME, admin appeals take years, if you are lucky, as the ISP does not even have the position of admin hearing judge filled, and has not since at least 2016. Lawsuits produce results, and in cases like this, IME, the Illinois AG folds quickly, but then you have to pay your own attorney. But the case is easily winnable if the goal is to get/restore the FOID / CCL. Of course there is still the federal prohibitor, but that is another issue.

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It's odd that a FOID card was revoked for a medical cannabis card. The state has made it clear that cannabis would not be considered a prohibitor and, in fact, the ISP FAQ's state:

If I am a qualifying patient or designated caregiver pursuant to the Compassionate Use of Medical Cannabis Pilot Program Act and hold a valid Medical Cannabis Card, are my Firearms Owners Identification Card and Concealed Carry License still valid?

Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege.

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It's odd that a FOID card was revoked for a medical cannabis card. The state has made it clear that cannabis would not be considered a prohibitor and, in fact, the ISP FAQ's state:

 

If I am a qualifying patient or designated caregiver pursuant to the Compassionate Use of Medical Cannabis Pilot Program Act and hold a valid Medical Cannabis Card, are my Firearms Owners Identification Card and Concealed Carry License still valid?

 

Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege.

 

 

She answered "YES" to one of the long list of should be "NO" questions.

 

Hi everyone,

 

Here is the story. I have had my FOID card since 07/18. No issues at all. I have purchased 2 firearms, both instant approval. I even have TSA precheck. Back in September I applied for Illinois medical marijuana card and was approved. In December I took the CCW 16 hour class and passed. I waited for Illinois to have recreational marijuana before applying for my CCW. I applied on 01/02/20. When I did apply I did answer yes to the question about drugs on the application since marijuana was still illegal federally and it is illegal to lie on the form. I was just trying to be honest. I even brought the question up in my class to see if I would have any issues. I am about to go turn in my FOID card and transfer my firearms to my husband. I just want to go about resolving this the best way possible so I can appeal the denial/revocation. What a headache.

 

Thanks for listening

 

-Jen

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First, it is ILLEGAL for the ISP, per state law, to take your FOID / CCL based ONLY on a MMC.

 

Second, it is ILLEGAL, for you, if you actually smoke pot, MMC or no, under federal law, to possess any firearm.

 

Third, it is ILLEGAL, per state law, for the ISP to DENY a FTIP, and it is ILLEGAL, per state law, for ISP to APPROVE a FTIP, for a MMC holder (maybe). Bottom line, ISP thinks its illegal and there is a good argument they are correct, and a good argument they are wrong. Thus, ISP will simply neither approve, nor disapprove a FTIP for a MMC holder, and thus, its up to the FFL whether they want to proceed with the transfer after 72 hours of no approval. Its illegal, under federal law, for the FFL to transfer if they KNOW or SHOULD KNOW that the issue is pot, but of course, ISP will not tell you its the issue, so unless the buyer volunteers it, how does the seller know?

 

IME, admin appeals take years, if you are lucky, as the ISP does not even have the position of admin hearing judge filled, and has not since at least 2016. Lawsuits produce results, and in cases like this, IME, the Illinois AG folds quickly, but then you have to pay your own attorney. But the case is easily winnable if the goal is to get/restore the FOID / CCL. Of course there is still the federal prohibitor, but that is another issue.

 

Federal law does not list possession as a prohibiting factor, only unlawful use and being addicted. 18 USC 922(g).

 

 

^ this ***

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I have questions on this. I do not have a card or use drugs. But to me there is a difference in having a card and using. You can get a card and even purchase weed but not use it. I know this seems strange but it plausible, which would mean it would need to be proven that you used it. Just having a card and filling a scrip. does not mean you have used......

Had to smile at the part where you say, “have a card and purchase weed BUT don’t use it”

If you are NOT using, why get the card or better yet why purchase it? Stock piling for the Zombie Apocalypse?

 

you aren’t selling you medical weed on the corner!

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Had to smile at the part where you say, have a card and purchase weed BUT dont use it

If you are NOT using, why get the card or better yet why purchase it? Stock piling for the Zombie Apocalypse?you arent selling you medical weed on the corner!

One of the most promising areas of legitimate medicinal marijuana is seizures and epilepsy. Marijuana derived pharmaceuticals are ridiculously expensive and many patients claim not as effective as the real thing. There are small groups of desperate parents whove never used the stuff in their life but see how effective it is getting their kids condition under control. Families have uprooted and relocated their entire lives just to be in a medicinal state.
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the ISP FAQ is wrong. Illinois and federal law expressly allow the transfer to proceed 72 hours after running the background check, as long as it is not "disapproved." Their claim that muzzle loaders require a FOID on their FAQ is also wrong. I have that both in writing and in sworn testimony from the head of the Firearms Services Bureau, as well as my own personal reading of the law. You will not find a single felon in possession case brought by ISP for a muzzle loader. A local cop/states attorney might, and they will lose in the face of a competent attorney, but ISP wont even make the arrest.

 

I know people who have been written conservation tickets for following the FAQ from the DNR. The FAQ is not the law, following it is not a defense to a criminal charge, and violating it is not a crime. As far as the ISP FAQ is concerned, sometimes it is what ISP wishes the law is, not what it actually is.

 

Personally, I hate pot, and have little sympathy for drug addicts, for a variety of reasons. Never used pot, don't think it should be generally legal, think most of the "medical" stuff about it is BS, BUT, I also think (1) if your terminal, what the heck you got to lose, and (2) on stuff that there is either no cost effective treatment for, and it appears to help, what the heck. I also don't buy, in a federal system, that the federal government has the legitimate authority to regulate the private purchase and possession of a firearm by someone that does not cross a state line with that gun, simply because that person smokes something I don't like. I recognize that is current law, but I don't buy the law as being legitimate. I think the state can potentially, depending on second amendment issues, pass that law, but not the feds.

 

rant over.

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Yea, I'm for real. Sometimes reality is a little different than you have been told, and it can be shocking. Believe me. Don't believe me. I really don't care. I don't say official FAQs are wrong lightly, but they are, and if you get one on one with the people at ISP, and corner them in a way that they cannot squeal from, as I have in the past, they will admit it.

 

Or maybe the govt would never lie to you ...

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Heard on the am radio this morning while heading out to the Jewel/Osco Senior BS shopping!

Seems that you can go to this web site, chat with one of their dozen or so of doctors and get approval “On The Spot”.

They will first class your card.

 

So it would seem that anyone wanting to buy weed can just get a card and pay less than the “legal” users are paying!?

As I’ve heard and seen posted here at IC.

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Heard on the am radio this morning while heading out to the Jewel/Osco Senior BS shopping!

Seems that you can go to this web site, chat with one of their dozen or so of doctors and get approval “On The Spot”.

They will first class your card.

 

So it would seem that anyone wanting to buy weed can just get a card and pay less than the “legal” users are paying!?

As I’ve heard and seen posted here at IC.

I wonder how much that costs? I saw sometime ago that legal weed costs more than the guy on the corner, Cook County taxes, BJ's cut, the aldercreature's cut. How much does lightfoot get? Wicked crookedness that is Illinois.

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You couldve checked no and if they go after you claim at the time you were a caretaker, not a user. There would be no way to prove it. Not a lawyer or legal advice

 

My friend got denied that way. Getting an mj ticket or an mmj card buys you at least a year in the federal penalty box. With the card you stay there until a year after the card expires.

 

 

 

 

Someone needs to file a lawsuit over that, *possession* of a *card* should not be enough to prohibit you from anything. Cards are not in and of themselves a legal disqualifier for anything, having the ability to possess something does not mean you actually possess or use it. Should be a slam dunk case.

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Hi everyone,

 

Here is the story. I have had my FOID card since 07/18. No issues at all. I have purchased 2 firearms, both instant approval. I even have TSA precheck. Back in September I applied for Illinois medical marijuana card and was approved. In December I took the CCW 16 hour class and passed. I waited for Illinois to have recreational marijuana before applying for my CCW. I applied on 01/02/20. When I did apply I did answer yes to the question about drugs on the application since marijuana was still illegal federally and it is illegal to lie on the form. I was just trying to be honest. I even brought the question up in my class to see if I would have any issues. I am about to go turn in my FOID card and transfer my firearms to my husband. I just want to go about resolving this the best way possible so I can appeal the denial/revocation. What a headache.

 

Thanks for listening

 

-Jen

Any YES answer on the background check questions will result in a denial/revocation. You will need to file an appeal for your CCL for an inadvertent YES answer on the application and explain you answered YES because of the Medical Marijuana Card. Once that is cleared up, your FOID card should be reinstated and your CCL application processed.

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Thank you for your response Molly. I was hoping you would read the thread. Thank you everyone else who also provided input. I ended up turning my FOID over to the local police dept. They were very nice and helpful on the situation. I will appeal this although it will take some time. I was hoping to hire a lawyer to get this going but unfortunately myself and my husband were both laid off back to back this week due to covid19.
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As an FFL 01 Dealer in IL, I will clear up some of the interesting responses I heard. #1: There is no such thing as an IL FFL Dealer "CHOOSING" to give you your firearm in 72hrs if FTIP has no response on your "pending" background check. According to the ATF & ISP, IL State law does not allow the transfer of a firearm without an "appoval" or "proceed" on your FTIP bcg check, PERIOD. #2: The ATF threatened to pull the NICS software from the FTIP System if they "approve" any bcg checks with a "hit" on the MMC. So, it was the choice of ISP & IL to comply with the ATF demands (there is a memorandum between the ATF & ISP that explains this) and question 11E if they want access to NICS during the FTIP bcg check system. #3: If you have a MMC, you will get caught on the FTIP bcg check. A very long "pending," according the the ATF, is typical of a bcg check that "found" a MMC in the bcg. This is the "clue" to dealers you have a MMC and the ATF IOI person tells you that during your interview. #3: Background checks can take days or months to clear. I had a bcg check take 32 days to get an "approval," guess what, that bcg has expired and has to get redone all over again. Background checks are only good for 30 days only, and if it takes longer, will have to get redone again. Are there exceptions, I am sure there are, but as a normal course of business every IL FFL has to go by these rules.

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Thank you for your response Molly. I was hoping you would read the thread. Thank you everyone else who also provided input. I ended up turning my FOID over to the local police dept. They were very nice and helpful on the situation. I will appeal this although it will take some time. I was hoping to hire a lawyer to get this going but unfortunately myself and my husband were both laid off back to back this week due to covid19.

 

 

An attorney is not necessary. You should be able to appeal the CCL denial online on your application page by submitting an appeal - should be a link or box there to explain you inadvertently answered YES to the question because you have a MM card.

 

Also, FAX your statement to this number 217-782-9139 Include your full legal name, date of birth, FOID and CCL application number

Include FOID appeal documents:

 

https://ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/AppealRequest.pdf

 

https://ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/Investigation.pdf

 

Select: I am challenging the accuracy of the record

and in the explanation box state you inadvertently answered YES to the question on the CCL application.

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