borgranta Posted July 2, 2019 at 06:48 PM Share Posted July 2, 2019 at 06:48 PM (edited) The only way it would be legal for ILLINOS to allow the FOID to exist after a court ruling declaring it unconstitutional would be to revise FOID law and all references of FOID in law to make it an optional card that would offer a benefit of no mandatory waiting period upon instant background check approval and a maximum 3 day wait when background check is delayed. Edited July 2, 2019 at 06:49 PM by borgranta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitter Clinger Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:29 AM Share Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:29 AM But waiting periods and other delays are also unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:31 AM Share Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:31 AM But waiting periods and other delays are also unconstitutional. Anything but cash (barter) and carry is unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted July 31, 2019 at 03:16 AM Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 at 03:16 AM State’s Reply Brief is attached. Appellant's Reply Brief.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird76Mojo Posted July 31, 2019 at 08:23 AM Share Posted July 31, 2019 at 08:23 AM (edited) I've never read a longer piece based on backwards, circular logic in all my life.Just wow."But as amicus Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence demonstrated in its brief, “[t]he weight of empirical evidence shows that licensing laws like Illinois’ are likely to be highly effective at reducing gun homicides and suicides and at decreasing gun purchases by criminals.”I would argue that since the FOID act was put in place, criminal violence using illegal firearms has only risen."In sum, if the Second Amendment allows prohibitions on gun possession and ownership by felons, minors, the mentally ill, and other presumptively risky people — which both this Court and the United States Supreme Court have held that it does"...and that's where you're wrong bud. The 2nd Amendment allows no such thing. It's right there, clearly written. THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE (ALL PEOPLE) TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS (ALL ARMS) SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Anything to the contrary is nothing more than a modern judges' opinion/ruling. Otherwise, the 2nd Amendment would've included the language pertaining to felons, mentally ill, etc.. Edited July 31, 2019 at 08:35 AM by Bird76Mojo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted August 1, 2019 at 05:49 AM Share Posted August 1, 2019 at 05:49 AM The FOID Act has only affected law abiding citizens. During the 3 years I lived in Illinois i was never able to purchase ammo or a long gun because I didn't have a FOID. As a nonresident military spouse I couldn't get a FOID. I've offered to help Illinois Carry in this matter, but got shut down. There's no interest in an amicus from somebody like me. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted August 1, 2019 at 05:56 AM Share Posted August 1, 2019 at 05:56 AM The FOID Act has only affected law abiding citizens. During the 3 years I lived in Illinois i was never able to purchase ammo or a long gun because I didn't have a FOID. As a nonresident military spouse I couldn't get a FOID. I've offered to help Illinois Carry in this matter, but got shut down. There's no interest in an amicus from somebody like me. Sent from my SM-N960U using TapatalkSo are you living here though (spouse stationed here)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted August 26, 2019 at 02:05 AM Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 at 02:05 AM Brown hearing is the morning of 9/10 in Springfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo.ulrich Posted August 26, 2019 at 02:48 PM Share Posted August 26, 2019 at 02:48 PM damn, same day as my colonscopy hope the the state doesn't preform a second one for me that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billzfx4 Posted August 26, 2019 at 06:19 PM Share Posted August 26, 2019 at 06:19 PM damn, same day as my colonscopy hope the the state doesn't preform a second one for me that day At least your doctor will use some lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappaDock Posted August 27, 2019 at 03:37 PM Share Posted August 27, 2019 at 03:37 PM I've never read a longer piece based on backwards, circular logic in all my life.Just wow."But as amicus Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence demonstrated in its brief, “[t]he weight of empirical evidence shows that licensing laws like Illinois’ are likely to be highly effective at reducing gun homicides and suicides and at decreasing gun purchases by criminals.”I would argue that since the FOID act was put in place, criminal violence using illegal firearms has only risen."What empirical evidence are they referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cls74 Posted September 10, 2019 at 03:14 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 03:14 PM From I presume Todd on IL Gun Lobby FB Case 124100 http://www.illinoiscourts.gov/SupremeCourt/Docket/default.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cls74 Posted September 10, 2019 at 04:18 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 04:18 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted September 10, 2019 at 05:15 PM Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 05:15 PM Wish I could have been there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgood Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:03 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:03 PM Anybody know what the tone of the judges was yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:14 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:14 PM I don't usually follow cases that much, but will there be audio and or transcripts of this case released anytime soon, or are we at the mercy of waiting for the decision? Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:26 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:26 PM (edited) http://www.illinoiscourts.gov/Media/On_Demand.asp 44 minutes Edited September 10, 2019 at 06:27 PM by InterestedBystander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:54 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 06:54 PM First two minutes, you have to let us keep the FOID act because we have had the FOID act for 50 years and other places get to do it. So based on this argument, i guess we get to keep slaves and women shouldn't vote because that is the way it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmagloo Posted September 10, 2019 at 07:25 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 07:25 PM (edited) Imho, Sigale did much better than that last case he stumbled through and clearly Fischer was not the typical stooge. As I was listening, in the back of my head the entire purpose of screening to avoid felons, mentally challenged, and the rest of those ineligible kept resonating, and in context when the judge brought up Heller's decision regarding permissible screening. The one thing that did come to mind though was the portion regarding the split out of the funds, in that only 3 dollars going to the admin for the program for the stated purpose. Imho, that needed a push as anything over the $3, where the fund were essentially then a tax creating funds for other non-related government services. I would have very quickly brought the point home that no other Constitutional Right are directly taxed. By the states own testimony, if the FOID is determined to be reasonable, the Fee cannot exceed $3, which will in that case would gut and render in appropriate this new bill to increase it further and aspirate that by reducing the term. I'm interesting in hearing others takes. Edited September 10, 2019 at 07:26 PM by mrmagloo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemical operator1 Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:01 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:01 PM My question is, if the FOID get dissolved what happens to people trying to get relief from the ISP director, and or going to court to gain a FOID per being a non violent felon? Would these all get flagged as now these people get nothing... no firearm right restored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitter Clinger Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:11 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:11 PM I would imagine if they can pass the NICS, then they could get their gun. No FOID or other nonsense required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:13 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:13 PM Listening to the audio, Sigale for Brown had two problems in his arguments. Vivian Brown never even tried to apply for a FOID, so it's difficult to argue that she had exhausted her options to obtain a FOID, including finding the cost of a FOID beyond her means. Exhaustion will probably be important for the case as applied specifically to her. Sigale kept introducing hypotheticals, which are more appropriate for a facial challenge, but this case is only about Vivian Brown. The lower court ruling simply asserted that the requirement to obtain a FOID as a condition to exercise a 2nd Amendment right was enough to make the FOID requirement unconstitutional. I think it could go either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:16 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:16 PM I can't help but fearing, if the FOID gets knocked down, then the Dems will pass idiotic crap, like background checks on ammo purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:19 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:19 PM My question is, if the FOID get dissolved what happens to people trying to get relief from the ISP director, and or going to court to gain a FOID per being a non violent felon? Would these all get flagged as now these people get nothing... no firearm right restored?I would imagine if they can pass the NICS, then they could get their gun. No FOID or other nonsense required. This case is only about long guns in the home, but the person in question still needs to be otherwise eligible for a FOID, even if the FOID is eliminated, so no felonies, no misdemeanor batteries, no DUIs, no mental commitments, etc. Also the FOID would remain a requirement for a handgun in the home or a long gun outside the home, as well as a prerequisite for a CCL. Removing the FOID for those other conditions would require other cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:21 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:21 PM I can't help but fearing, if the FOID gets knocked down, then the Dems will pass idiotic crap, like background checks on ammo purchases. FYI, California already has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemical operator1 Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:24 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 08:24 PM If the FOID is dissolved, and people seeking relief are now at the mercy of passing a NICS. It would be nice if the ATF would have it their budget to seek relief, but Schumer had this blocked in the 90's and sadly I dont see it coming back. I do HATE the FOID act, but seems that because of the FOID act people with past convictions that deem themselves worthy now are at risk of losing it all if the FOID is wiped out. I'm kinda torn between yes and no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:12 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:12 PM If the FOID is dissolved, and people seeking relief are now at the mercy of passing a NICS. It would be nice if the ATF would have it their budget to seek relief, but Schumer had this blocked in the 90's and sadly I dont see it coming back. I do HATE the FOID act, but seems that because of the FOID act people with past convictions that deem themselves worthy now are at risk of losing it all if the FOID is wiped out. I'm kinda torn between yes and no... How do people in other states without the FOID card get their rights returned? I want the FOID card gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemical operator1 Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:28 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:28 PM Depends on the state. Some states you are barred forever if you have certain convictions. Other states reinstate your firearm rights after a certain length of time automatically after sentence is served. You would have to look up each states laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:43 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:43 PM Depends on the state. Some states you are barred forever if you have certain convictions. Other states reinstate your firearm rights after a certain length of time automatically after sentence is served. You would have to look up each states laws. One thing to note, is that in many cases the individuals still can't pass a NICS test as the state doesn't 'expunge' the convictions, but the state allows those individuals to make private purchases and have ownership after having the rights restored even if they still fail a NICS check... Think of it as similar to where medical marijuana users are stuck currently, able to have a gun at the state level but not at the federl level without commiting perjury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemical operator1 Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:46 PM Share Posted September 10, 2019 at 09:46 PM Depends on the state. Some states you are barred forever if you have certain convictions. Other states reinstate your firearm rights after a certain length of time automatically after sentence is served. You would have to look up each states laws. One thing to note, is that in many cases the individuals still can't pass a NICS test as the state doesn't 'expunge' the convictions, but the state allows those individuals to make private purchases and have ownership after having the rights restored even if they still fail a NICS check... Think of it as similar to where medical marijuana users are stuck currently, able to have a gun at the state level but not at the federl level without commiting perjury. Well said....but if the FOID is abolished then everyone with restored rights are technically back to square one....and only a pardon would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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