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People v. Brown - FOID ruled unconstituional in IL District Court


Molly B.

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On 8/3/2022 at 12:39 AM, Euler said:

We can only speculate, but ...

 

IL Supreme Court justices are elected.

Justices need the support of their political party.

Firearms are a sensitive topic.

It's an election year.

Punting is easy.

I think it's more than that. From any honest perspective the FOID Act is unconstitutional, but they don't want to strike it down, and under no circumstance will they do so unless a higher court steps in (or the issue is decided by the Seventh Circuit).

 

Striking down Cook County's AWB, for example, is one thing. Getting rid of the FOID would be an entirely different matter altogether, and one that would prove to be an even bigger loss for the gun control movement than any one county-level AWB.

Edited by MrTriple
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On 8/3/2022 at 10:21 AM, MrTriple said:

I think it's more than that. From any honest perspective the FOID Act is unconstitutional, but they don't want to strike it down, and under no circumstance will they do so unless a higher court steps in (or the issue is decided by the Seventh Circuit).

 

Striking down Cook County's AWB, for example, is one thing. Getting rid of the FOID would be an entirely different matter altogether, and one that would prove to be an even bigger loss for the gun control movement than any one county-level AWB.

 

The Illinois Supreme Court is the highest court in the state, which has indeed previously ruled on state arms prohibitions being unconstitutional. People v Webb (stun guns/tasers) comes to mind.

 

The only place to go with this case after the Illinois Supreme Court is the US Supreme Court. Since the IL Supreme Court keeps remanding, it's not upholding a conviction, which means Brown has nothing to appeal to the US Supreme Court. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The IL Supreme Court keeps directing the county court to dismiss the charges, saying there are (unspecified) grounds to do so.

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On 8/3/2022 at 11:47 AM, Euler said:

 

The Illinois Supreme Court is the highest court in the state, which has indeed previously ruled on state arms prohibitions being unconstitutional. People v Webb (stun guns/tasers) comes to mind.

 

The only place to go with this case after the Illinois Supreme Court is the US Supreme Court. Since the IL Supreme Court keeps remanding, it's not upholding a conviction, which means Brown has nothing to appeal to the US Supreme Court. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The IL Supreme Court keeps directing the county court to dismiss the charges, saying there are (unspecified) grounds to do so.

How can we hold them accountable and get the case in front of a court willing to answer?

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On 8/3/2022 at 10:16 AM, Jeffrey said:

How can we hold them accountable and get the case in front of a court willing to answer?

 

If the ILSC and district court keep bouncing the case between them repeatedly, I'm wondering how that is not a denial of due process by needlessly delaying the judgment.   

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On 8/3/2022 at 1:16 PM, Jeffrey said:

How can we hold them accountable and get the case in front of a court willing to answer?

 

For this case, if the county court finds her guilty, and the appeals court upholds, then the supreme court would have to put up or shut up on why the case should be dismissed. I'm not convinced that would go well, although an upheld conviction could be the basis for a civil suit in federal district court on the constitutionality of the FOID (or any licensure of a right). It would be irresponsible (like totally disbar-able) of the defense to try to get a conviction, though.

 

Edited by Euler
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On 8/3/2022 at 1:49 PM, mab22 said:

So maybe this is where Bruen comes in and the ILSC just caves, because the higher court already said so, it’s out of their hands then?
ILSC blames it on SCOTUS. 
 

That's where my head was going.  The Bruen case needs to be held high to all these municipalities attempting to unconstitutionally revoke our rights.  They need to get nervous over the idea they could be sued later.

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On 8/3/2022 at 1:40 PM, Euler said:

For this case, if the county court finds her guilty ...

On 8/3/2022 at 3:23 PM, Black Flag said:

Will they do that?

 

Based on the law as written, she's guilty, but the county court has ruled twice that the law is unconstitutional. The second time that the county court ruled, it ruled despite the IL Supreme Court directing it simply to dismiss the case. It will be interesting to see what procedural twist the county court dreams up for round #3.

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On 8/3/2022 at 11:47 AM, Euler said:

 

The Illinois Supreme Court is the highest court in the state, which has indeed previously ruled on state arms prohibitions being unconstitutional. People v Webb (stun guns/tasers) comes to mind.

 

The only place to go with this case after the Illinois Supreme Court is the US Supreme Court. Since the IL Supreme Court keeps remanding, it's not upholding a conviction, which means Brown has nothing to appeal to the US Supreme Court. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The IL Supreme Court keeps directing the county court to dismiss the charges, saying there are (unspecified) grounds to do so.

Part of the problem, is that the state won’t give up and drop the charges against brown. They don’t want the case dismissed. In once instance their the ones that appealed one decision.

 

The case would end and be over if the state dropped the charges. Their failure to do so is leaving the district court in a tough place

 

The district court refuses to convict. The state AG refuses to drop the charges.


I think there are only two ways for this (FOID act) someone to file a cival lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of the FOID act. Or for the court to find Brown guilty and let brown appeal. So that the higher courts either have to uphold the conviction, or reverse based on constitutionality, thus backing the IL Supreme Court into a corner making them uphold the conviction or reverse it.

 

The way it’s going now. The Supreme Court keeps remanding.

 

One other thing is certain. Because this is an election year, they don’t want to rule on the constitutionality of the FOID act, or provide a means for it to go to SCOTUS.

 

I am actually surprised the GOA or FPC or NRA hasn’t stepped up to support a lawsuit to overturn the FOID. 

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On 8/3/2022 at 6:46 PM, Euler said:

 

Based on the law as written, she's guilty, but the county court has ruled twice that the law is unconstitutional. The second time that the county court ruled, it ruled despite the IL Supreme Court directing it simply to dismiss the case. It will be interesting to see what procedural twist the county court dreams up for round #3.


One option is go to trial, and let the jury find her guilty. Then she can appeal. As long as the appeals court and IL Supreme Court uphold the conviction then she can take it to SCOTUS.

 

However…. IL SC could still vacate and remand.

 

It is a mess for sure. 
 

At this point the DA should request dismissal, and the court should grant.

 

This won’t be settled with Brown. Someone needs to file a cival suit. The ILSC refuses to rule one way or the other on the FOID.

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the issue is justices will arrive at a conclusion that does NOT involve a constitutional question if they can. Wilson was remanded due to procedural issues and avoided the 2A question. 

 

They shy away from constitutional rulings where they can becuase of the downstream effect the precedent could have

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So in the failed state of Illinois, lady Justice isn’t Blindfolded anymore, and she has extra weights on one side of the scale. If they can’t just say “this is unconstitutional”, regardless of the downstream effects of the ruling, the third branch of government is useless and we have become a banana republic. 

 

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