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What is a concealed handgun?


Dx54r

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What does a concealed carry license actually allow you to carry in Illinois? Are there any limits besides the assault weapon ban in Chicago or local ordinances? If you could actually conceal it, can you carry two 11 inch AR pistols down both pant legs? How about a Mac-11 in your pants? Does the CCL allow people to conceal carry rifles or shotguns?

 

I was watching this video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zepAp5qQiDw

 

 

 

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720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful use of weapons.

(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

...

(7) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or carries:

(i) a machine gun, which shall be defined for the purposes of this subsection as any weapon, which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manually reloading by a single function of the trigger, including the frame or receiver of any such weapon, or sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses, or carries any combination of parts designed or intended for use in converting any weapon into a machine gun, or any combination or parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;

(ii) any rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or any weapon made from a rifle or shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches; or

...

 

430 ILCS 66/5. Definitions.

...

"Handgun" means any device which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas, or escape of gas that is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. "Handgun" does not include:

(1) a stun gun or taser;

(2) a machine gun as defined in item (i) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012;

(3) a short-barreled rifle or shotgun as defined in item (ii) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012; or

(4) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter, or which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second, or which expels breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors.

...

"License" means a license issued by the Department of State Police to carry a concealed handgun.

...

 

AR pistols are technically permitted. Preemption in the FCCA should apply, but expect to take heat if you carry one in Chicago.

MAC-11 is a machine gun under 720 ILCS 5/24-1.(a)(7)(i), so it's not permitted, even under the FCCA.

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And you ever notice how these videos about the number of guns one can carry never actually shows the person walking or doing anything else!

LOL! The goofy loose jeans were a dead give away. Might as well had a burger and fries in there as well. Just ridiculous.

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720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful use of weapons.

(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

...

(7) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or carries:

(i) a machine gun, which shall be defined for the purposes of this subsection as any weapon, which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manually reloading by a single function of the trigger, including the frame or receiver of any such weapon, or sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses, or carries any combination of parts designed or intended for use in converting any weapon into a machine gun, or any combination or parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;

(ii) any rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or any weapon made from a rifle or shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches; or

...

 

430 ILCS 66/5. Definitions.

...

"Handgun" means any device which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas, or escape of gas that is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. "Handgun" does not include:

(1) a stun gun or taser;

(2) a machine gun as defined in item (i) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012;

(3) a short-barreled rifle or shotgun as defined in item (ii) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012; or

(4) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter, or which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second, or which expels breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors.

...

"License" means a license issued by the Department of State Police to carry a concealed handgun.

...

 

AR pistols are technically permitted. Preemption in the FCCA should apply, but expect to take heat if you carry one in Chicago.

MAC-11 is a machine gun under 720 ILCS 5/24-1.(a)(7)(i), so it's not permitted, even under the FCCA.

 

 

 

A Mac-11 is a machine gun like an AR-15 is a machine gun. Obviously I was talking about that style of gun and not an actual NFA weapon. There are dozens of Mac clones in various calibers that are closed bolt and semi-automatic.

 

And you ever notice how these videos about the number of guns one can carry never actually shows the person walking or doing anything else!

 

It's gotta be a 20 year old video and looks like it was put out in the Clinton AWB Era. I tried looking up where it was from, but I couldn't find any leads. It's still kinda cool.

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And you ever notice how these videos about the number of guns one can carry never actually shows the person walking or doing anything else!

 

 

LOL! The goofy loose jeans were a dead give away. Might as well had a burger and fries in there as well. Just ridiculous.

The idea has merit. My granddaughter stowed some animal crackers in her diaper the other day and pulled 'em out while we were headed down the road.

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It's gotta be a 20 year old video and looks like it was put out in the Clinton AWB Era. I tried looking up where it was from, but I couldn't find any leads. It's still kinda cool.

I don't remember if it was this one or some others, but a lot of times they are done by security consultants who have actually walked past security guards or checkpoints armed that heavily.

 

The other thing they do is see how far they can breach a building's security by leaving markers in secured areas.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sb-douglas-secret-service-steve-wexler-20180605-story.html

 

This is a great field to be in for any retired law enforcement or military since people are starting to take physical security more seriously.

 

The weakest link in both digital and physical security is trusting human nature. We as a society have gotten even worse as our stranger danger has been totally deprogrammed as we are too scared of offending.

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It's gotta be a 20 year old video and looks like it was put out in the Clinton AWB Era. I tried looking up where it was from, but I couldn't find any leads. It's still kinda cool.

I don't remember if it was this one or some others, but a lot of times they are done by security consultants who have actually walked past security guards or checkpoints armed that heavily.

 

The other thing they do is see how far they can breach a building's security by leaving markers in secured areas.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sb-douglas-secret-service-steve-wexler-20180605-story.html

 

This is a great field to be in for any retired law enforcement or military since people are starting to take physical security more seriously.

 

The weakest link in both digital and physical security is trusting human nature. We as a society have gotten even worse as our stranger danger has been totally deprogrammed as we are too scared of offending.

 

+1

 

We have become so politically correct that we are afraid to ask anyone what the heck they are doing in an area where generally you do not expect random people. Te other day I had to escort a guy out of a secured area at my place of work because he could not answer that simple question. Then someone told me I was being rude. Screw that.

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Anyone who would carry...or consider carrying...an AR-15 or MAC11 is someone I don't want to be around. I don't think they should be illegal. I just think these weapons are wholly unsuited to concealed carry/self defense. Even if you can effectively conceal an AR pistol, how are you going to deploy it quickly?

 

Someone explain to me how a semi-auto MAC11 is better than a Glock 19 for carry.

 

If I feel like I need 5.56mm firepower to defend myself, I will just carry a full-sized AR-15 rifle openly. That will be a SHTF situation.

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Anyone who would carry...or consider carrying...an AR-15 or MAC11 is someone I don't want to be around. I don't think they should be illegal. I just think these weapons are wholly unsuited to concealed carry/self defense. Even if you can effectively conceal an AR pistol, how are you going to deploy it quickly?

 

Someone explain to me how a semi-auto MAC11 is better than a Glock 19 for carry.

 

If I feel like I need 5.56mm firepower to defend myself, I will just carry a full-sized AR-15 rifle openly. That will be a SHTF situation.

There is a reason these guns are in the genre of "personal defense weapons", but the NFA neuters their effectiveness with lack of both stock and select fire.

 

So I agree that in their neutered form they are nothing more then poser guns that lack all the usefulness they were designed to have.

 

B&t makes a very nice Mac 11 descendent PDW that would be my choice anyday over a glock 19.

 

https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/bt-mp9tp9/bt-smg-mp9-n-cal-9-x-19-mm

 

For a car gun (which requires conceal carry) some of the big bore AR platforms would have some use as well, but still not as good without the collapsible stock.

 

Law enforcement uses PDW's all the time in Europe

31be59a1f0d7cb825cf5e2ed8e0d8a88.jpg

 

Or how about the b&t USW

https://youtu.be/n6c9bOFj9ic

 

Or the new USW P320 frame

https://youtu.be/LtLnnncrXXU

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Anyone who would carry...or consider carrying...an AR-15 or MAC11 is someone I don't want to be around. I don't think they should be illegal. I just think these weapons are wholly unsuited to concealed carry/self defense. Even if you can effectively conceal an AR pistol, how are you going to deploy it quickly?

 

Someone explain to me how a semi-auto MAC11 is better than a Glock 19 for carry.

 

If I feel like I need 5.56mm firepower to defend myself, I will just carry a full-sized AR-15 rifle openly. That will be a SHTF situation.

There is a reason these guns are in the genre of "personal defense weapons", but the NFA neuters their effectiveness with lack of both stock and select fire.

 

So I agree that in their neutered form they are nothing more then poser guns that lack all the usefulness they were designed to have.

 

B&t makes a very nice Mac 11 descendent PDW that would be my choice anyday over a glock 19.

 

https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/bt-mp9tp9/bt-smg-mp9-n-cal-9-x-19-mm

 

For a car gun (which requires conceal carry) some of the big bore AR platforms would have some use as well, but still not as good without the collapsible stock.

 

 

That's ridiculous. Totally.

 

I still don't see how the semi-auto MAC11 is better than a Glock19 for concealed carry. IMO, it's less ergonomic. It's clunky and difficult to conceal. That I'm aware, there are no IWB holsters available for it.

 

Are you planning to engage in a gunfight from a moving car? If you're the victim of a carjacker, I'd take the Glock (or 1911, or Shield, or PPK or Sig P320) over an AR any day of the week.

 

Anyway, do what you want.

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It's purely fantasy, but a non neutered PDW is the best car gun you can own. Your arguing against law enforcement and overseas private security firm norms all over the world. If a real PDW is made available to them they all take it.

 

And given the choice between carrying a full size pistol concealed and a PDW concealed I'd take the PDW.

 

A PDW on a sling under a jacket is just as easy to deploy as a full sized pistol and just as easy to carry around.

 

Again, this argument is made pointless by the fact that the NFA neuters any usefulness of a PDW.

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We're drifting here as the original thread topic was "What is a concealed handgun?" but I like to talk PDWs so here I am.

 

I think the neutered PDW is a perfect home defense weapon and a great get home bag gun for the car.

 

Perks include more tolerable report indoors without hearing protection (still loud, but not as bad as shotgun or rifle), red dot optic mounted up top is easy to use, either a sling or brace on the firearm provide better control, and standard capacity magazines might be 10, 15, 20 or 30 rounds of 9mm or .45.

 

Ammo plentiful and can be found in fragmenting, HP, ball, tracer, solid copper and all loaded to various velocities.

 

Spot to mount light out front

 

Sill fits in normal backpack or briefcase with room for other stuff.

 

Not too heavy.

 

Slightly longer barrel for better velocity on ammo

 

 

 

The military is looking to buy more of these type of weapons to equip security forces tasked with personal protection of high ranking officers. Apparently there's still a use case argument for these.

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Does the CCL allow people to conceal carry rifles or shotguns?

 

 

Forgot to address this part. You cannot conceal carry rifles or shotguns (the Judge and Governor are not shotguns, FYI).

 

Conceal carry is for pistol/handguns only. So even if you have stamps you still can't carry an SBR, short barreled shotgun, or even a stamped pistol with a stock. And you can't conceal carry Franklin Armory's reformation. Despite it not being a shotgun or rifle it is also not a pistol/handgun.

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I don't live in Beirut.

 

I'm not saying any of this should be illegal. I even thing the NFA should be repealed. I just think this stuff is impractical. I'm still pretty sure I can deploy a Glock 19 and get shots on target faster than anyone with a MAC11 full auto.

I will agree that I've been thinking about getting a Glock 19 MOS with some happy sticks as a next best thing since we can't own real PDW's.
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A couple of points.

1. The second post in this thread summed up the differences nicely.

 

2. Unless I was in some type of combat zone, I would not carry a PDW on me. With that said......see #3

 

3. While I went with 5.56 for my AR pistol (because I already had two other AR-15's and didn't want to worry about cross loading ammo), an AR-15 in .300 blackout is an EXCELLENT PDW in the AR platform. You can get most of your powder burn from an 8.5 inch barrel, and a Law Tactical adapter allows you to fold the stock for transport.

 

4. If you want to get technical, original AR-15's were indeed assault rifles. When the AR-10 (which came before the AR-15) was invented, it was capable of fully automatic fire. When the AR-10 was scaled down to create the AR-15, it was still capable of full auto, AND AR-15's (prior to being converted to M-16s) were used by the Air Force.

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A couple of points.

1. The second post in this thread summed up the differences nicely.

 

2. Unless I was in some type of combat zone, I would not carry a PDW on me. With that said......see #3

 

3. While I went with 5.56 for my AR pistol (because I already had two other AR-15's and didn't want to worry about cross loading ammo), an AR-15 in .300 blackout is an EXCELLENT PDW in the AR platform. You can get most of your powder burn from an 8.5 inch barrel, and a Law Tactical adapter allows you to fold the stock for transport.

 

4. If you want to get technical, original AR-15's were indeed assault rifles. When the AR-10 (which came before the AR-15) was invented, it was capable of fully automatic fire. When the AR-10 was scaled down to create the AR-15, it was still capable of full auto, AND AR-15's (prior to being converted to M-16s) were used by the Air Force.

 

Relative to 3. ... It's not an AR pistol if you have a "stock" on it, and if said stock folds for transportation it has a feature that helps qualify it as an eeeevil assault weapon under most proposed bans. If it's not a pistol, it's not a handgun and not going to qualify as a viable option for coverage under the FCCL or preemption of laws in ban towns like Highland Park. This difference also puts one in jepordy of having a short barreled rifle without tax stamps or proper and required licensing from the Feds.

 

I know what you meant, but the distinction is the difference between jail and free.

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For anyone who actually thinks they'd carry an AR pistol, do realize that you'll also need one of these in 2XL:

 

https://www.sheplers.com/outback-trading-co.-long-oilskin-duster/080409.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1LKmy8jk2wIVi4bACh1GWAtNEAQYAyABEgJtB_D_BwE&ef_id=WSN-IAAAAXjtG1gc:20180621104012:s

 

Which 'could' tend to make you stick out in a crowd for the next few months - lol

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A couple of points.

1. The second post in this thread summed up the differences nicely.

 

2. Unless I was in some type of combat zone, I would not carry a PDW on me. With that said......see #3

 

3. While I went with 5.56 for my AR pistol (because I already had two other AR-15's and didn't want to worry about cross loading ammo), an AR-15 in .300 blackout is an EXCELLENT PDW in the AR platform. You can get most of your powder burn from an 8.5 inch barrel, and a Law Tactical adapter allows you to fold the stock for transport.

 

4. If you want to get technical, original AR-15's were indeed assault rifles. When the AR-10 (which came before the AR-15) was invented, it was capable of fully automatic fire. When the AR-10 was scaled down to create the AR-15, it was still capable of full auto, AND AR-15's (prior to being converted to M-16s) were used by the Air Force.

Relative to 3. ... It's not an AR pistol if you have a "stock" on it, and if said stock folds for transportation it has a feature that helps qualify it as an eeeevil assault weapon under most proposed bans. If it's not a pistol, it's not a handgun and not going to qualify as a viable option for coverage under the FCCL or preemption of laws in ban towns like Highland Park. This difference also puts one in jepordy of having a short barreled rifle without tax stamps or proper and required licensing from the Feds.

 

I know what you meant, but the distinction is the difference between jail and free.

 

True, I should have been more specific.

I do have a KAK brace for my AR with a 10.5 inch barrel. I also have some buffer tube pads for my other AR's to make them "pistols" for storage (a 16" and 20").

 

So a folding "brace" to conserve space, as opposed to a folding stock.

 

 

Honestly, the laws need to be fixed because the difference between a brace and a stock is getting close to zero. Unless you are into weapons, the average person could not tell a stock from a brace.

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Honestly, the laws need to be fixed because the difference between a brace and a stock is getting close to zero. Unless you are into weapons, the average person could not tell a stock from a brace.

 

If you don't understand the purpose of devices that exploit ATF wording to weaken the NFA then you don't need to participate in the ownership of said devices. Yes there is a risk, but there is a reward for beating test cases.

 

The fix you're asking for won't make anybody here happy. Probably better not to write that on the wall too many times.

Exactly, Asking for blanket legal clarification beyond an ATF approval letter will not have the intended effect you're looking for.
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For anyone who actually thinks they'd carry an AR pistol, do realize that you'll also need one of these in 2XL:

 

https://www.sheplers.com/outback-trading-co.-long-oilskin-duster/080409.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1LKmy8jk2wIVi4bACh1GWAtNEAQYAyABEgJtB_D_BwE&ef_id=WSN-IAAAAXjtG1gc:20180621104012:s

 

Which 'could' tend to make you stick out in a crowd for the next few months - lol

 

Exactly.

 

Even an AR pistol in a car...that's a confined space and I don't want to try to handle a long weapon in that space or while seated. It's just too unwieldy. Also, I'd like to retain some hearing after the encounter.

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Honestly, the laws need to be fixed because the difference between a brace and a stock is getting close to zero. Unless you are into weapons, the average person could not tell a stock from a brace.

If you don't understand the purpose of devices that exploit ATF wording to weaken the NFA then you don't need to participate in the ownership of said devices. Yes there is a risk, but there is a reward for beating test cases.

 

 

I'd say that obvious exploits will eventually invite a heavy hand. Listen, it is great for me because I live in Aurora, but on its face, it is all dumb. The weapon performs exactly the same regardless of it having a brace, stock, or bare buffer tube.

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