Responding to CCL Review Board Request for Statement

[Zee]

Hi Molly, 

 

I tried sending my CCL Objection Response through the portal but it said the file is to large. I emailed it to ISP.FirearmReinstatementUnit@illinois.gov and wanted to know if this is the correct email. 

[Molly B.]

No, I do not believe it is.  Try calling this number for the Review Board

708.227.1510

and leave a message with your full legal name, FOID number, date of birth and your contact number.  Tell them what happened when you tried to upload and ask for confirmation that someone received your message and ask what you should do.

[ZNPC]

Hi Molly,

 

Thank you in advance for supporting our rights! As such, I'm reaching out regarding my current board review status. The letter requesting my response is dated, March 3, 2023. Can you please confirm how many days they have to respond? Should I expect to hear anything by April 3rd?

 

Thank you!

[Molly B.]

Unfortunately, the ccl review board does not have a frame it has to meet.

 

It seems to be taking 2-6 months? Please keep us posted on your progress. 

[ZNPC]

Thanks Molly, will do. 

[ZNPC]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:45 AM, Molly B. said:

Unfortunately, the ccl review board does not have a frame it has to meet.

 

It seems to be taking 2-6 months? Please keep us posted on your progress. 

Also, does it benefit me to reach out via phone or email? If so, are your able to provide the boards number and email?

[Molly B.]

There hasn't really been a way to contact the CCL Review Board via phone or email to have a conversation with anyone.

[ZNPC]

Can you please walk me through the steps of filing the appeal/complaint in Cook County? Couple of things:

 

1. The board believes I have a prohibitor on background that prevents me from getting my CCL, but I have a FOID. ZERO felonies.

2. Is there certain criteria and verbiage that needs to be in the appeal/complaint?

[FredNickl]

On 4/14/2023 at 3:39 PM, ZNPC said:

Can you please walk me through the steps of filing the appeal/complaint in Cook County? Couple of things:

 

1. The board believes I have a prohibitor on background that prevents me from getting my CCL, but I have a FOID. ZERO felonies.

2. Is there certain criteria and verbiage that needs to be in the appeal/complaint?

Did you submit a robust and comprehensive Response to the Law Enforcement Objection? If not, don't bother spending the $400 or so to file an Administrative Review, as you may be unlikely to win before a judge. Admin Reviews are limited to the evidence in the record, and if the record only contains the police reports and only a short, basic response from you, you'll likely lose.

[ZNPC]

Thank you for your response. 

I was very detailed and specific regarding each objection(3 total). I strongly believe the support I have overwhelmingly proves I'm eligible and not a danger to society. 

I just need help with the process of filing the complaint/appeal. 

[FredNickl]

Are you in Cook? Ask the clerk of the circuit court and they'll direct you to file an Administrative Review. I believe the filing fee is $400. You need to tell the court what administrative agency final decision you're appealing. You need to give notice via certified mail to all parties. The defendants will have the Attorney General's Office file an appearance on their behalf and file the Record as their Answer to your Complaint for Administrative Review. You'll then want to file a memorandum in support of your complaint by making arguments based on the Record. Then the court may allow oral argument after both sides file their written arguments. Then you get a decision. Whole process could take at least 6 months.

 

For more specifics, the folks on this forum give good advice, but I cannot give anymore more based on my ethics rules.

[Molly B.]

Znpc, To be clear,  are you saying after submitting your response to the ccl review board, the board denied your ccl application?

[ZNPC]

Hi Molly - That is correct. The CCL board upheld the agency's objection. I have 30 days to file a complaint from April 6th. 

 

[ZNPC]

Hi Molly - That is correct. The CCL board upheld the agency's objection. I have 30 days to file a complaint from April 6th. 

 

***Correction - 35 days***

[Molly B.]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but appealing the decision in circuit court is not usually very fruitful.  It is heard by an administrative review law judge and the judge rules on whether or not the board followed proper procedures rather than on the merits of their decision . . .   That is my understanding and after the early days of IL CCL, I do not know of anyone who has been successful.

 

HOWEVER, that being said, I know of many people who have been successful by following these steps:

 

1. Have a fingerprint background check done to get a list of everything on your record.

2. File for expungement of everything on that list that you can - sealing your record is not the same thing, law enforcement can still see your record if sealed.

3. After expunging, wait a few months and do another background check to make sure everything is expunged.

4. Contact the ISP and ask to have your CCL application cleared from the system.

5. Reapply for your CCL.

6. If an objection is filed again, get help with responding to the board.

[FredNickl]

On 4/16/2023 at 4:24 PM, Molly B. said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but appealing the decision in circuit court is not usually very fruitful.  It is heard by an administrative review law judge and the judge rules on whether or not the board followed proper procedures rather than on the merits of their decision . . .   That is my understanding and after the early days of IL CCL, I do not know of anyone who has been successful.

 

HOWEVER, that being said, I know of many people who have been successful by following these steps:

 

1. Have a fingerprint background check done to get a list of everything on your record.

2. File for expungement of everything on that list that you can - sealing your record is not the same thing, law enforcement can still see your record if sealed.

3. After expunging, wait a few months and do another background check to make sure everything is expunged.

4. Contact the ISP and ask to have your CCL application cleared from the system.

5. Reapply for your CCL.

6. If an objection is filed again, get help with responding to the board.

I agree with all of this, but want to point out that CPD and Cook County Sheriff's Office don't expunge information in their database. Because both of these agencies account for almost all of the objections, you may still draw an objection if there is negative info in either of these agencies' computers.

[ZNPC]

On 4/14/2023 at 4:31 PM, FredNickl said:

Are you in Cook? Ask the clerk of the circuit court and they'll direct you to file an Administrative Review. I believe the filing fee is $400. You need to tell the court what administrative agency final decision you're appealing. You need to give notice via certified mail to all parties. The defendants will have the Attorney General's Office file an appearance on their behalf and file the Record as their Answer to your Complaint for Administrative Review. You'll then want to file a memorandum in support of your complaint by making arguments based on the Record. Then the court may allow oral argument after both sides file their written arguments. Then you get a decision. Whole process could take at least 6 months.

 

For more specifics, the folks on this forum give good advice, but I cannot give anymore more based on my ethics rules.

Thanks Fred! If the judge does not overturn the CCL Review Board's decision. Can I use you firm to re-file the appeal?

[FredNickl]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:49 AM, ZNPC said:

Thanks Fred! If the judge does not overturn the CCL Review Board's decision. Can I use you firm to re-file the appeal?

I don't have the rule in front of me, but if you file an admin review and lose, you must wait 2 years to reapply for the CCL. If this is your 2nd application already, then this is your last shot.

[ZNPC]

On 4/16/2023 at 4:24 PM, Molly B. said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but appealing the decision in circuit court is not usually very fruitful.  It is heard by an administrative review law judge and the judge rules on whether or not the board followed proper procedures rather than on the merits of their decision . . .   That is my understanding and after the early days of IL CCL, I do not know of anyone who has been successful.

 

HOWEVER, that being said, I know of many people who have been successful by following these steps:

 

1. Have a fingerprint background check done to get a list of everything on your record.

2. File for expungement of everything on that list that you can - sealing your record is not the same thing, law enforcement can still see your record if sealed.

3. After expunging, wait a few months and do another background check to make sure everything is expunged.

4. Contact the ISP and ask to have your CCL application cleared from the system.

5. Reapply for your CCL.

6. If an objection is filed again, get help with responding to the board.

Are you able to provide step by step instructions to file an appeal through the courts? If possible please include all form names to file the appeals. After looking through the circuit court docs there's a lot of different types of Admin Review forms. Just want to make sure I'm submitting the right forms. 

[Molly B.]

Unfortunately, we do not.  I don't know of anyone being successful in this type of appeal,  except for very early on in 2004 when the board was not providing due process to applicants. I don't know of any successful administrative review court appeals since then. 

[ZNPC]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:30 PM, Molly B. said:

Unfortunately, we do not.  I don't know of anyone being successful in this type of appeal,  except for very early on in 2004 when the board was not providing due process to applicants. I don't know of any successful administrative review court appeals since then. 

Molly - I guess I'm just confused then. There were three objections stated by LEOs. 

1. 2020 - EPD stated I was a felon for AUUW. This is not true. I have no felony on my background. I was arrested, but due to completing the, "first time weapons offender program", the felony is dismissed. This is supported by the fact that I currently have a FOID card and my court documents support this. Also, the judge would not grant this program to someone who is a clear and present danger. 

1a. Additionally, EPD said I've been involved in multiple drive by shootings, and this is 100% false. They have zero evidence of this or any way of connecting me to a shooting. Not sure how to prove a lie is false aside from putting the burden on them to prove their accusation. 

 

2. 2010 resisting arrest - misdemeanor conviction. No contest as I was guilty of this. 

 

3. 2004 Arrested for BB gun - I was 14 and arrested for a BB gun. No felony. 

 

With the above stated I'm at a loss at what to do! Can I provide my response to you to take a look? Please help if possible. 

 

[FredNickl]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:10 PM, ZNPC said:

Molly - I guess I'm just confused then. There were three objections stated by LEOs. 

1. 2020 - EPD stated I was a felon for AUUW. This is not true. I have no felony on my background. I was arrested, but due to completing the, "first time weapons offender program", the felony is dismissed. This is supported by the fact that I currently have a FOID card and my court documents support this. Also, the judge would not grant this program to someone who is a clear and present danger. 

1a. Additionally, EPD said I've been involved in multiple drive by shootings, and this is 100% false. They have zero evidence of this or any way of connecting me to a shooting. Not sure how to prove a lie is false aside from putting the burden on them to prove their accusation. 

 

2. 2010 resisting arrest - misdemeanor conviction. No contest as I was guilty of this. 

 

3. 2004 Arrested for BB gun - I was 14 and arrested for a BB gun. No felony. 

 

With the above stated I'm at a loss at what to do! Can I provide my response to you to take a look? Please help if possible. 

 

The time to challenge all of this was when responding to the Law Enforcement Objection. You should have gotten letters of recommendation, affidavits from those involved, deep dive on your bio, etc. However, even with all that, I can tell you these arrests are enough for the CCLRB to deny. Convictions aren't in the statue, nor are arrests. ANYTHING can be on a Law Enforcement Objection and if you did 1st offender for an Agg UUW only 2 years ago, there's no way the Board would give you a CCL. That's the difference between CCL and FOID. Because of that, it is rare for judges to grant admin review for CCL denials where applicants handled their own Responses to Law Enf. Obj. Also, forget about using a form for admin review. Important things are to name the correct parties within 35 days and have them properly served.

[ZNPC]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:18 PM, FredNickl said:

The time to challenge all of this was when responding to the Law Enforcement Objection. You should have gotten letters of recommendation, affidavits from those involved, deep dive on your bio, etc. However, even with all that, I can tell you these arrests are enough for the CCLRB to deny. Convictions aren't in the statue, nor are arrests. ANYTHING can be on a Law Enforcement Objection and if you did 1st offender for an Agg UUW only 2 years ago, there's no way the Board would give you a CCL. That's the difference between CCL and FOID. Because of that, it is rare for judges to grant admin review for CCL denials where applicants handled their own Responses to Law Enf. Obj. Also, forget about using a form for admin review. Important things are to name the correct parties within 35 days and have them properly served.

Isn't the admin review form where I need to name the correct parties within the 35 days?  

[Molly B.]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:51 PM, ZNPC said:

Isn't the admin review form where I need to name the correct parties within the 35 days?  

 

 

Sending you a private message. 

[Duko]

Just got up to date with all the trouble folks have been having with this approval and denial process.  I am yet to receive my letter by mail, not sure if it makes a difference. My status changed from pending to under board review, I continued checking the portal and the following day there was a message stating that there was a report filed against me late last year with the CPD. This was the first time it was brought to my knowledge . I have no prior interactions with the law besides speeding and parking tickets. The person from the incident and I have had extensive communication since the report was filed. Looking for any advice on my next steps.

 

-M

[Molly B.]

On 7/26/2023 at 5:32 PM, Duko said:

Just got up to date with all the trouble folks have been having with this approval and denial process.  I am yet to receive my letter by mail, not sure if it makes a difference. My status changed from pending to under board review, I continued checking the portal and the following day there was a message stating that there was a report filed against me late last year with the CPD. This was the first time it was brought to my knowledge . I have no prior interactions with the law besides speeding and parking tickets. The person from the incident and I have had extensive communication since the report was filed. Looking for any advice on my next steps.

 

-M

 

 

 

There is a good possibility the objection will be overturned by the review board - they overrule about 80-85% of them.  If they choose not to overturn it, they must give you an opportunity to respond and present your side of the incident.

We have a lot of good information at this link about responding to the board, if you end up having to do that:
https://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?/topic/66414-responding-to-ccl-review-board-request-for-statement/#comments

In the meantime, all you can do is wait until they decide whether or not to overrule the objection.