Rules regarding family/friends/non FOID shooting your firearms?

[BeardswithoutOperators]

Like it says on the tin:

 

Are you allowed to bring non FOID card holders to shoot your firearms as long as they're under supervision and are responsible enough to understand firearm safety?

[mic6010]

Yes as long as they are over 18 or if they are your children. Some ranges have different polices concerning that so call ahead. Some I heave heard won't let anyone shoot without FOID card, most don't care at all. On private land you can do whatever you want.

[borgranta]

Residents of other states are specifically exempted from needing a FOID to possess a gun.

[borgranta]

If you have any family that are residents of other states they would be legally allowed use a range, however some ranges may prefer not to allow non residents to shoot.

[blck10th]

I took my buddy from Germany today. The only thing they would do is sell him ammo.

 

 

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[Bubbacs]

Non FOID card holders would be out of state residents?

Out of country residents?

 

If an Illinois resident, then they would need a FOID card to shoot at most indoor ranges as I understand it.

Much the same as not being able to handle a firearm to purchase without first showing your FOID, you'd need to show your FOID to get onto a range in most places! If not all by law........

 

Way too many topics o this have already been thrown about here before and are mainly based upon the definition of possesion.

Once you have placed a firearm into your hand, you are now in possesion, IMHO.

And many range owners see it this was too.

Those who don't care if you have a FOID are taking a position of "I'll take your money" and hoping nothing bad happens!

Insurance, liability issues, etc alone would make most say no.

 

Out of state residents have used drivers license numbers for ID's, and out of country have used passports.

But neither can purchase ammo nor rent a firearm themselves. The FOID card holder needs to purchase ammo prior to entering the range and most times will have to be using their own firearms.

 

With the simply process of applying for the FOID online and the cost being $10.00 again, IMHO, I'm not sure why those around firearms or wanting to shoot don't apply and be done with it!

To a person registered here, we all say we want everyone to experience the safe aspects of firearm enjoyment.

But we don't direct friends and family, neighbors and etc to get a FOID or assist in getting a FOID upfront.......

[Molly B.]

When sharing the joy of marksmanship with someone who isn't sure about guns, that person may not have a FOID and not sure they want one.

 

To the question: Are you allowed to bring non FOID card holders to shoot your firearms as long as they're under supervision and are responsible enough to understand firearm safety?

 

 

Exempt from possession of a FOID card:

(15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a

Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; and

 

 

 

And each range may have their own rules/restrictions in addition to the statute.

[DD123]

The general rule of thumb I use, and this is all based on my personal preference:

 

If the person doesn't have a FOID, and is from Illinois, they must be eligible for a FOID for me to take them out shooting.

 

I have a couple of friends that aren't able to get a FOID, so I won't bring them shooting with me.

 

If someone from out of state comes into town, I use the same criteria......if they lived here would they be eligible for a FOID?

[Xwing]

You are specifically allowed to per Illinois law. Many ranges will put on additional prohibitions (such as "only one non-FOID holder allowed per FOID holder" or "you must share the same shooting stall") But those restrictions are not the law. If on private land or a range with more allowable policies, you can bring as many non-FOID holders as you wish.

[Tvandermyde]

As the author of the law its simple:

 

an Illinois resident does not need a FOID to use a gun on a range or participate if a class if they are 1. under supervision of a FOID holder. 2. Eligible for a FOID -- meaning not prohibited under law.

 

There is no restriction on children or requirement that they be your own.

 

Non-residents it doesn't matter as they are FOID exempt.

 

Each range may have their own rules as to how they deal with this and since it's their range, it's their rules regardless of what the law says.

[BeardswithoutOperators]

Say I take my younger brother just to learn (he's in scouts so he's shot .22s and shotguns) but he's only 13 years old, would he be able to fire my AR?

 

Follow up question, if not on a range, could he do it on private land owned by my family?

[Glock23]

Say I take my younger brother just to learn (he's in scouts so he's shot .22s and shotguns) but he's only 13 years old, would he be able to fire my AR?

 

Follow up question, if not on a range, could he do it on private land owned by my family?

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

[jlowrie]

I took my buddy from Germany today. The only thing they would do is sell him ammo. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be very careful there. I'm not sure if this applies to your buddy, but non immigrant aliens are generally prohibited from possessing firearms unless they have a hunting license or permit.

 

18 USC 922

y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—

(1)Definitions.—In this subsection—

(A)

the term “alien” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(3)); and

(

the term “nonimmigrant visa” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)).

(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(, (g)(5)(, and (s)(3)((v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—

(A)

admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

( an official representative of a foreign government who is—

(i)

accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or

(ii)

en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;

©

an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or

(D)

a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.

[blck10th]

He's here on a work visa. He went with me a valid FOID carrier. I'm sure if the range didn't feel it was a good idea to allow him to shoot with me they would have objected.

 

 

Looking at IL law considering possession. Him shooting my guns is not even talked about. He never left the line he didn't even carry the case in or out of the facility.

 

I think many of you read into the law to much and are not a lawyer

 

I see nothing that says he can not use my firearms. However, you probably didn't read all of that and I'm sure not taking time out of my day to either.

 

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[jlowrie]

He's here on a work visa. He went with me a valid FOID carrier. I'm sure if the range didn't feel it was a good idea to allow him to shoot with me they would have objected.

 

 

Looking at IL law considering possession. Him shooting my guns is not even talked about. He never left the line he didn't even carry the case in or out of the facility.

 

I think many of you read into the law to much and are not a lawyer

 

I see nothing that says he can not use my firearms. However, you probably didn't read all of that and I'm sure not taking time out of my day to either.

 

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Feel free to ignore any and all advice if you want. Think of it this way, jaywalking is also illegal... doesn't mean folks don't do it all the time. It also doesn't mean that folks never get a ticket for it.

[skinnyb82]

I've taken multiple non-FOID card holders (eligible, just never applied) to my club's range. Technically, I'm barred from bringing any guest, regardless of FOID status. I'm also supposed to display my membership creds on my person, which no one ever does. But after we had the treasurer walk up to us (my girlfriend and myself on the rifle range) and start conversation, didn't seem to care about membership but his daughter was one of my neighbors. Eh well, point is there's no law barring FOID holders from taking those without a FOID out to a range. I encourage it, actually.

 

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[Hipshot Percussion]

I know Article ll allows a non-foid shooter with a foid holder - at least the last time I was there. Range @ 355 does not. You must hold a foid to enter the range, or be under the age of 18 and with a legal guardian. We just had this conversation last Friday when I was there with my Brother and my SIL. As a side note, The Range @ 355's check in procedure for shooters at the range for the first time is tedious and time consuming, to put it gently. Hopefully, now that we are in the system, it will go a whole lot quicker.

 

Still, a great range... I just can't get over how clean it is and how nice everyone is.

[skinnyb82]

I love my club. I pay $40 annually (45 less discount of 5 for NRA embers), has a rifle range with about 10 benches, boards ranged out to 50, 100, and 200 yds. Pistol range with two lanes, and trap range. Outdoor range and the club's board is very lax about regs. It's basically self-policed, honor systemkey to the gate is in a farmer's mailbox and there's a sign-in sheet.

 

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[Xwing]

I love my club. I pay $40 annually (45 less discount of 5 for NRA embers), has a rifle range with about 10 benches, boards ranged out to 50, 100, and 200 yds. Pistol range with two lanes, and trap range. Outdoor range and the club's board is very lax about regs. It's basically self-policed, honor systemkey to the gate is in a farmer's mailbox and there's a sign-in sheet. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

Sounds awesome! What town is this in?

[Bubbacs]

Not to be argumentative at all.

But I'd like to ask, and hearing from Todd always is a good read and you get a feeling that it's spot on info!

 

So, I'm allowed to take a non FOID holder to a range with me as I have a valid FOID.

But part two of your reply says "must be eligible for a FOID"....... How would they be able to determine if the person with you is actually eligible to get a FOID?

 

Again I'm not against the reading of the law or anyone here, but if the range owners can't verify that someone is eligible to actually get a FOID this may be why most or some don't allow people on their ranges without a valid FOID.

 

Does this make sense?

[jlowrie]

off of the FAQ section on the ISP website:

 

 

non resident exemptions to the FOID act:

• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted.

• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case.

• Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range recognized by the Department of State Police.

• Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Department of State Police.

• Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case.

• Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state.

As I stated earlier, be careful if that non-resident is a foreigner present on a non-immigrant visa. This situation is covered separately under federal law and not the FOID act.

[soundguy]

Not to be argumentative at all.

But I'd like to ask, and hearing from Todd always is a good read and you get a feeling that it's spot on info!

 

So, I'm allowed to take a non FOID holder to a range with me as I have a valid FOID.

But part two of your reply says "must be eligible for a FOID"....... How would they be able to determine if the person with you is actually eligible to get a FOID?

 

Again I'm not against the reading of the law or anyone here, but if the range owners can't verify that someone is eligible to actually get a FOID this may be why most or some don't allow people on their ranges without a valid FOID.

 

Does this make sense?

 

 

If you know a non FOID holder is ineligible... Felon, habitual drug user, mentally ill, suicidal, drunk or high etc... You do not want to be taking them shooting.

 

Personal responsibility still counts.

[Bubbacs]

 

Not to be argumentative at all.

But I'd like to ask, and hearing from Todd always is a good read and you get a feeling that it's spot on info!

So, I'm allowed to take a non FOID holder to a range with me as I have a valid FOID.

But part two of your reply says "must be eligible for a FOID"....... How would they be able to determine if the person with you is actually eligible to get a FOID?

Again I'm not against the reading of the law or anyone here, but if the range owners can't verify that someone is eligible to actually get a FOID this may be why most or some don't allow people on their ranges without a valid FOID.

Does this make sense?

 

 

If you know a non FOID holder is ineligible... Felon, habitual drug user, mentally ill, suicidal, drunk or high etc... You do not want to be taking them shooting.

 

Personal responsibility still counts.

Oh I get that, me being the one responsible and all.

But my point was, and I never type anywhere close to what I can verbally say in person.......

The stores have no way of knowing IF that person is actually eligible to get a FOID!

MAYBE that's why they don't allow it?

I wouldn't want to be the one taking a felon to a range.....lol.....but you know there are people who feel that anyone should be allowed to have or handle a firearm!

 

I'll stop, seems like I get off track at times, but if my insurance and liability were on the line with my FFL and livelihood too, I'd error on the side of caution.

[Hazborgufen]

off of the FAQ section on the ISP website:

 

 

non resident exemptions to the FOID act:

• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted.

• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case.

• Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range recognized by the Department of State Police.

• Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Department of State Police.

• Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case.

• Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state.

As I stated earlier, be careful if that non-resident is a foreigner present on a non-immigrant visa. This situation is covered separately under federal law and not the FOID act.

 

Can you give more information on this? If someone comes to this country as a tourist, is there a reason they can't go shooting? I'm pretty sure that I've read articles about ranges doing brisk business catering to Chinese and Japanese tourists who can't otherwise go shooting in their home countries.

[jlowrie]

 

off of the FAQ section on the ISP website:

 

 

non resident exemptions to the FOID act:

• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted.

• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case.

• Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range recognized by the Department of State Police.

• Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Department of State Police.

• Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case.

• Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state.

As I stated earlier, be careful if that non-resident is a foreigner present on a non-immigrant visa. This situation is covered separately under federal law and not the FOID act.

 

Can you give more information on this? If someone comes to this country as a tourist, is there a reason they can't go shooting? I'm pretty sure that I've read articles about ranges doing brisk business catering to Chinese and Japanese tourists who can't otherwise go shooting in their home countries.

 

link to the full text of 18 USC 922 is above, but the ATF breaks this down pretty well concerning nonimmigrant ailens in the linked FAQ. https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/nonimmigrant-aliens

excerpt from the ATF site concerning rental of firearms below.

Can an alien who enters the United States on a nonimmigrant alien visa rent a firearm for lawful hunting or sporting purposes while in the United States?

A nonimmigrant alien that possess a valid hunting license from a State within the United States or falls within any of the other exceptions or exemptions that allow nonimmigrant aliens to possess firearms may rent firearms to hunt or to use at a shooting range.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) and (9), 922(g)(5)( and 922(y); 27 CFR 478.99(a) and ©(5)]

Last Reviewed February 10, 2016

Is a valid hunting license or permit as an exception to the firearms prohibitions on nonimmigrant aliens only valid in the State in which it was issued?

No. A valid, unexpired hunting license or permit from any State within the United States satisfies the hunting license exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. The hunting license or permit does not have to be from the State where the nonimmigrant alien is purchasing the firearm.

[Tvandermyde]

We wrote that so FOID did not become an inhibitor. when you wrote legislation, sometimes you have to make concessions to ease the fears of the never ending what ifs.

 

So the burden is on them to prove you knew that your buddy was a felon or such. It was an attempt to stop the fears that gang bangers would have friends take them tot he range and get trained.

[Rich]

I'm still totally confused. I would like to know whether it is legal by US and Illinois law for legal (non immigrant) aliens to shoot at a range...Specifically, for a foreign student with Illinois residency:

 

1. Can't get a FOID, correct?

2. Can shoot if they have a valid hunting license from any state (really!?)

3. Any other valid exception? (I looked over the ATF site, until I got dizzy). None of the other exceptions I saw seemed to fit.

 

We discussed this issue after shooting just this weekend, our range safety officer thought there was an exception for training purposes but she was not too confident and she said that's what she's been told, but she had not "seen the law" that allowed it. Even so, a group of Chinese visitors (not students) were given instruction and allowed to shoot a plethora of pistols a few months back (with a 1:1 or better ratio of RSOs on hand). I am sure they did not have hunting licenses.

 

Just curious...would really like to know if it's an option for some of my students from overseas, and how to handle it properly.

[jlowrie]

I'm still totally confused. I would like to know whether it is legal by US and Illinois law for legal (non immigrant) aliens to shoot at a range...Specifically, for a foreign student with Illinois residency:

 

1. Can't get a FOID, correct?

2. Can shoot if they have a valid hunting license from any state (really!?)

3. Any other valid exception? (I looked over the ATF site, until I got dizzy). None of the other exceptions I saw seemed to fit.

 

We discussed this issue after shooting just this weekend, our range safety officer thought there was an exception for training purposes but she was not too confident and she said that's what she's been told, but she had not "seen the law" that allowed it. Even so, a group of Chinese visitors (not students) were given instruction and allowed to shoot a plethora of pistols a few months back (with a 1:1 or better ratio of RSOs on hand). I am sure they did not have hunting licenses.

 

Just curious...would really like to know if it's an option for some of my students from overseas, and how to handle it properly.

My understanding is that a legal non-immigrant alien is not eligible for a FOID. If they have a state hunting permit they can go shooting at a range.

 

As far as other exceptions: foreign LEO on duty, foreign diplomats and guests recognized by the US state department.