Jump to content

Gun violence in Illinois & the 2nd Amendment


KENDLLB360

Recommended Posts

Im new to this whole 2nd amendment rights in our country. Im a young African American, with a old timers viewpoint on life. I know firsthand about guns and the lives they take. Especially in the inner city limits where people are murdered routinely. However, in my personal opinion, its not brought on by the weapons themselves but yes by the ones handling them. Of course. But what people are missing is the environments and conditions that lead to the violence.

 

Most people who talk down on guns due to the killing rate, associate a vast majority of the killings to gangs and drugs. Which is absolutely true. But they fail to realize what created the gangs and fed their violence. The racism that many minorities faced during the 40s-70s in blk and Latino communities is what led to these gangs starting as social groups to protect their families and their friends from currupt police officials and politicians who smashed families on top of families in small project apartments and homes. And abused their power with many of these people in these areas.

 

Needless to say, these gangs formed to combat the abuse and the conditions they were facing. Then came the drugs being pushed into the communities. Which led to the violence because was seen as a way out of the poverty that many were living. With mo jobs, no education due to underqualified schools these gang members turned to drug money as a way to provide food for their families. Despite the fact that it only was self destruction of their own people. Their own race. Leading to gang wars over drug territory. It became less about building their community and more about making money and controlling "turf". I admit times were not as bad back then as now with the crime rate, due to a new generation of young gang members with no moral sense, no parental guidance as most parents are young and immature themselves now adays.

 

But you know what? From my point of view, the violence escalating is not the fault of the gangs in themselves or guns being to easy to get ahold of by gang members. If you ask me, i blame the authorities. The FBI, and the police. I know how they abuse people in these communities unjustifiably. Literally violating constitutional rights of many knowing they are ignorant of the law. And perfect targets of abuse at the hands of those who were sworn to serve and protect. Though they may do their job right in many "white" areas, suburban or city wise, when it comes to areas of minorities they are not viewed or treated as equals or Americans. So that feeds the gangs. It feeds their membership and ideologies of how we are really separate from that of your average American. When you know these kids join these gangs, and respect and follow their leadership, and then the FBI want to come and lock up their leadership, it doesn't cripple anything, it only feeds into the violence and disarray on the streets of our cities.

 

I think to help stop the violence in our communities in a nutshell, two things need to happen..1: the FBI, and authorities and politicians need to stop using prison as a deterring tool for crime and violence, and stop thinking stiffer gun laws and more police presence will slow down the gangs membership and violent activity. What needs to happen is they need to start enlisting those most respected by the gangs, and seek ways to sit down and learn to work with the gangs and not against them. Honestly, this war on drugs and guns is a lost war. Its time to try a new strategy. Instead of locking up thousands just to have thousands more start is pointless. Throwing away young lives for marijuana possession. Which is more harmless than alcohol and cigarettes. We have been attacking these issues totally wrong as a society. The only ones to slow down the violence are the ones committing it. Not the ones being victimized. We have to realize gangs are here to stay. The more you try to stop them, the stronger they will grow and faster. The greater violence will become. Its time to try understanding these gangs, and what feeds them. Try making truths between many rival gangs to stop violence. The FBI knows who every gang member is in these areas. Who is in control. They can hack phones. Messages. Ect. But haven't gotten anywhere in the fight yet? These kids and members need guidance. If you keep forcing prison and more police on them, they will push away more. Lets try not using prison, to scare people out of crime, and use reason. The power of the mouth. Unity. Lets help fix these areas where crime is high. With better education. Jobs. Activities for youth instead of just the gangs they see and drugs. Trying to abolish the gangs will be a never ending battle. I can tell you all that now. So will trying to make stricter laws on guns. Its the true meaning of insanity...as we can see from histories example.

 

2: we need to try to decriminalize certain drugs. I know it sounds crazy. Believe me. But when you look at it, drugs are here to stay. No one can deny that. The more you try to stop it, the more it becomes true. We fail to realize that everyone deserves the right to treat their bodies how they see fit. We can drink, it causes cancers and other ailments. We smoke cigs, that kill hundreds of thousands weekly. More than guns. Yet we accept it. But how many gun killings come from alcohol or cigs? Not many. Know why? Bc its no profit from violence over those things. But when you have a demand for an item, especially bc its illegal, and hard to get, it will cause violence. Violence, in hopes of making money. Money is the root of all of our problems. People seeking profits.

 

As much as it may sound dumb, the legalization 100% of certain drugs, will literally cause a drastic decline in violence. Nationwide. With legal weed, and with cocaine being legal, for those who "choose" that lifestyle, as they do to turn transgender to say, its their choice. But without weed and cocaine for gangs to feud over for money and power anymore, the gun violence, and turf wars WILL decline. With nothing for them to fight over. There will also be less crowded prisons, and less non violent, good hearted people losing their freedoms in prison for 20 years for selling a few ounces of marijuana to someone. This war on drugs is senseless power struggle of our politicians to keep control as they see fit, and to keep the minority communities in the predicament that they are currently in.

 

Its time to open our eyes to the new world we live in. Its 2016. If we don't make a change now, we risk even worse conditions to come for all of our future generations. Its time to learn from our mistakes. And try a different road.

 

But these are just some of my opinions. As a 25 year old from the heart of where gun crimes are committed. Speaking from a point of view of someone who has seen the damage guns can create especially with gang wars nationwide. But also, one who loves guns, and our 2amd right to carry and possess in order to protect our families, as well as for sport. I hope we continue to fight for those rights for everyone. But that also we recognize the change of times and adjust our way of thinking on many social matters in order to attain what we all wish. A united country, and peace freedom and justice for All. Hopefully i expressed this correctly. And that many will come to agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok so I just read through the wall of text and it looks to me like you're hoping to garner support from the pro 2A community to legalize drugs? Specifically cocaine and it's derivatives?

You then try to pad the harshness of that request by adding on other "social agenda" items?

You want us to release those whom have been convicted of violations of the laws related to the drugs and gang activity by claiming they are social groups?

 

That's what I gathered from reading your post here.

I don't think you'll find the support you hope for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum.

I find your post difficult to read and follow but I appreciate your viewpoint. I don't have your life experiences and find it hard to relate to some of it.

I agree with some of what you say and respectfully disagree with some of it.

I do believe that generational poverty, loss of the stable 2 parent family, and failed sociopolitical policies are much to blame. I also know these are complex issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting reading, a bit hard since there are no line spaces and such.

 

I do agree that things prior to the 1980's were probably pretty tough on minorities. I think most of that has been changed in the majority of society today, though. Granted there are pockets of white trash who are still racist, but the majority of Americans now have been taught to be color blind, nationality blind, etc. Kids in school these days have multicultural groups of friends. Nobody cares as long as nobody is acting out.

 

I hate to say it, but I think the majority of racism now comes from the minorities. I am a suburban white male from the Chicago area. My family came to Chicago some time around 1905 and lived on the south side for many years. Generations of family are interred at the cemetery at about 125th and Halstead. I took my mother there last Spring to visit the graves. After we finished there, she wanted a restroom so we went to the McDonalds a few blocks from there. While she was doing her thing I stood in line to get some lunch for us. (I was the only white guy in the place.) When I reached the front of the line ALL the counter staff disappeared and became very busy doing other things. I simply could not get served in that restaurant. When my mom came out, we decided it would be the tactful thing to just leave without any lunch.

 

I really cannot tell you how disappointing that was. I have been to McDonalds locations all across our country and in other countries. I have become used to getting the same treatment in any store, anywhere. For the minority folks in South Chicago to act the way they did at that McD's, was terrible. If any of them had visited the McDonalds in my area they would be greeted with a smile and treated with respect. The Chicago folks have attitudes that are forty years out of step with the rest of America. If they want better treatment, better jobs, etc. they are the ones who will have to change.

 

It is time to leave the "chips on the shoulder" attitudes behind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I appreciate the warm embrace as im new to all of this. I want to start of saying im sorry about the clutter i wrote. Its off of a cheap phone lol.

 

I however did not post wishing to find any kind of support. If i wanted to do drugs ill just do it. I dont need support to do what i want. Or the police to give or politicians to give me permission. I speak solely as voicing my own opinions on matters based on personal experience.

 

Also, yes i do agree that many minorities show racism towards your other races. But one thing you have to remember, is for over 500 years, blks and most latinos were forced to remain silent while under abuse of whites. Many blk women were RAPED by white men infront of their children and husbands just 60years ago. If not sooner while authorities did nothing. Many were beaten, whipped,hung, tortured, raped, spit on, and abused. By whites. So you wonder why now many have a hatred for whites, and in general, people of authority. Because for 400 yrs plus, those whites and people of authority have abused our ancestors and then, without any retribution just expect those future generations to just shut up and move on with their lives. And stop complaining and better themselves? But its hard to move from the bottom when your ENTIRE heritage comes from the bottom you understand? The ONLY way to equalize what monorities have experienced is to allow us to enslave all whites for 400 yrs, and rape, torture, beat and deny you your right to be free as well. You can not destroy a whole ethnicity for 400yrs and then just recently, in 1970s onward try to tell them that they should already be put together. And established. And oh, now you have the right to vote, or go to our bathrooms, after MLK was killed. Now minorities have freedom. But its not good enough. More needs to happen. What?? I cant particularly say. But i know things need to done differently on many levels. Im not into politics or social issues persomaly. But i do have my opinions. Thats really all i wish to put out. Respectfully so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Improving the economic cultural condition of people is the best way to reduce violence of all kinds.

 

Fixed that for ya...

Just because you are poor...doesnt make you violent or a criminal..

Frankly...I would think law abiding poor people would find that statement offensive.

 

 

What I said isn't what you think I said. And I don't know what you mean by "cultural".

 

Go look at some statistics sometime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Improving the economic cultural condition of people is the best way to reduce violence of all kinds.

 

Fixed that for ya...

Just because you are poor...doesnt make you violent or a criminal..

Frankly...I would think law abiding poor people would find that statement offensive.

 

 

What I said isn't what you think I said. And I don't know what you mean by "cultural".

 

Go look at some statistics sometime.

 

 

Let make it easier for you..

Its not how much money you have in your pocket...But rather your cultural situation.

 

Definition of culture

  • : the beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time

  • : a particular society that has its own beliefs, ways of life, art, etc.

  • : a way of thinking, behaving, or working that exists in a place or organization (such as a business)

If you think 'more money' will solve the problem...

You get back to us when you have a figure that needs to be spent to fix the problem.

Keep in mind the trillions already spent on free food..free housing...free electricity..free phones...free internet...et al

Perhaps just pay people not to commit crimes?!?!

Laughing you are?

http://freebeacon.com/politics/dc-democrat-pens-bill-that-would-pay-people-not-to-commit-crimes/

 

Again...get us a dollar amount...because its not the culture...right?

We'll be waiting...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also to respond to the releasing criminals comment. Thats not what i was referring to. Im not saying lets release the murderers and hardcore killers. Im saying, first off, lets stop sending innocent people to prison for non violent crimes.

 

A young man, selling weed, because he has a record and cant get a job, now he faces 20 yrs in prison for selling a non lethal "drug" for rent money or diapers. All due to our "war on drugs". That we are LOSING by the way if you haven't noticed. And will continue to lose. And now with a person who is 17,18 having been arrested for wanting to smoke or sell pot, he cannot find a adequate job. He has a record. He has been sent to cook county jail, which is only a school for criminals, and now he was forced to join a gang,because lord knows the police wont help stop him from being raped in his a**, so what do society expect? Of course he in prison for some weed, now he joins a gang if he hasn't before hand because if not he is a target from them, and now you have a non violent offender, who has to turn into a violent offender because society doesn't like that he smokes pot at home.

 

 

.does it make sense to you?? Cause it doesnt to me. I agree, you commit murder, you do your time. But you want to smoke some weed, or snort some cocain who are you hurting? Yourself. Not society. Society is only affected by the means in which the drugs is funded. Money. Because illegal anything, means profit if you can supply it. And for gangs and drug cartels, they feed from that need. So kill the need. Kill the need for suppliers. And you kill the suppliers. Ineffect, killing all the crime that follows. Ineffect, showing that stiffer gun laws was not the answer after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see your point with this as far as non violent offenders being forced to become violent and it can be a loop that people can't get or see a way out of. I am from Seattle where weed in certain quantities is now legal and no one is really being prosecuted for any of that stuff. I have never been a drug user (so I am not as familiar with the scene) however I don't think you can just take away the criminal aspect from drugs and then think that there will be no drug related crime.


A person impaired by said drugs just like alcohol could go out and do something stupid and then there you go. It's not an easy issue to solve and the war on drugs is definitely a failure but that won't stop politicians from fighting it because it makes them look good to the public.


Also there are plenty of non violent things that can get you thrown in jail that do not have to do with drugs or gang banging, do those people also then become violent offenders while they are locked up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to attain what we all wish. A united country, and peace freedom and justice for All.

 

 

 

Welcome to IllinoisCarry, KENDLLB. We need more young people who are interested in making life and our world better. From reading your opening post, the quote above is probably the most important thing we all needed to see today.

 

I hope you don't mind, I did a little 'spacing" edit of your post to make it easier to read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum.

 

I did a quick read through of your post and agree with quite a few of your points. At this point in time, I think it's both economics, cultural, and legal issues along with enforcement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree it shouldn't be about money. But it is. Its always about money. If you believe in the bible, then you believe money is the root of all evil. Money drives people. Its drives you to go to college, to stay in school and get good grades from youth up. Money is what everyone seeks.

 

Well, so do gangs and cartels. So do politicians who make 200,000$ a year or more. While your average American makes $7.50 hr. You have millionaires who pass wealth through families, while millions starve and die daily. While others go for rides on yachts and private jets. Meanwhile, we who live in the center of Chicago barely have heat in our schools in winter. Pray daily that our mothers don't get kicked off of welfare because she is raising 4 kids alone on a minimal wage. Its too common is the issue at hand. And you cant just say get your lazy ***** up and go to college.

 

Life isn't that simple for many. You cant go to college as a son, when your single mom is 3 months behind on rent. Your 17,18 thinking how your mother barely can afford for you to go to college. You can work a McDonald's job, but wont make any money. So what do you do? You sell drugs. You rob. You steal. Because no one cares about your problems. Your father stepping out. Or your brother being killed last week.

 

Society doesn't care about problems that don't effect them directly. About minority problems. To be direct. And believe it or not, this all has a effect on the gun society. Because as long as crimes are committed using guns, then anti-gun lobbyist will play off of every single incident possible to prove a point against guns. Its all connected. We are all connected. And all have to learn to understand each other. And find solutions, not temporary bandaids for these issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think anyone can become a violent criminal. At the end of the day however, gangs run the prison system. From blks to asians, and even your white hatred gangs. Any culture or race can become susceptible to that. But as far as a high person committing a crime, most high people, dont commit murders. Its statistical. Not many people smoke weed and then want to kill someone. If anything, weed makes them hungry. They will kill some burger king first. What im saying is alcohol is not on the same level as say weed. Though i admit cocaine does alter peoples minds in a way. Possibly making them violent. As alcohol does. But as far as marijuana, which is the 2nd major drug import in America, is not dangerous if legalized as alcohol or cigs. The only murders committed under the concept of weed, is due to the gangs and cartels fighting over control of the market. Not weed users being violent.

 

I know many may disagree with what im stating because your so afraid of change. But i can tell you now, this is the way to fix things. Other countries have already realized this. And it works for them. Im not saying it will completely stop crime and murder. But i do know it will help with the vast number of homicides in our areas. Of course more is needed than just legal weed...deeper work in these destroyed communities. Leadership. Thats why i said locking up gang leaders wont fix our violent problem. Bc i know gang members.im around them. I can tell you, they honor and listen to their leadership like trained American soldiers. And they love what they are. You want to force them to "behave" for society out of fear of oppression from society. Out of fear of going to prison. But does that fear stop catholic priest from molesting children? The fear of going to heck? Does the fear of prison stop politicians from stealing money? So why expect fear of more police, or longer prison terms to stop criminals from shooting a rival gang over money??

 

Many men view themselves as "tuff". Warriors. Your a MAN. can tell you what to do. Or put fear in you. And thats what the gangs feel. They see the added police, and longer prison terms as a challenge from society, a challenge from the white man, to break them. That only makes them stronger in their efforts to rebel. And break laws. And claim they have to because the "man" is trying to lock everyone up. This is how they look at it. They feel oppressed and targeted, so they rebel. They sell their drugs because who cares. Society already abandoned them. Outcast them as good for nothings. So thats what they will be.

Thats what they have been since the beginning of time in this country. Viewed as nothing. Now their just a group of nothings who band together. A so called gang. Society made them, and now dont know how to deal with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Change can often be a good thing and if legalizing drugs would then significantly curb if not stop the violence associated with controlling the market then I am all for it. If this is the case hopefully there would also be better access to treatment for those who would like to kick their habit and get clean.

 

The money saved from the stoppage or reduction of the war on drugs can then be invested into the communities that need rebuilding (in all aspects) and hopefully they will flourish from there.

 

It is human nature to rebel and find ways around obstacles so I would imagine the same thing would go for any gang member out there who feels as if "the man" is against them. Why follow the laws of others that you feel are out to get you and oppress you directly out of existence? I agree that society has created this issue that we now face and since that is the case society can come together as one and fix the issue.

 

Also I am not sure if it's that society doesn't know how to handle them but perhaps an issue of if society cares enough to do so, especially when people turn a blind eye to issues that don't directly effect them as an individual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KENDELLB:

Where abouts do you live?

 

I am on the Board of Directors of Illinois State Rifle Association,

and we have local meetings in various locations around the metro area.

(and adding locations)

 

If one of our meetings was convenient to you,.

you would have the opportunity to commiserate with like-minded people.

 

Regards,

Mike Weisman

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes!!! That is exactly my point. I believe it will drastically slowdown "gun violence" in particular. Yes im sure people will still rob, steal, and fight. Get drunk and commit crimes. Petty theft. Mayb even do it with a gun. But my ficus, is on our real problem. Thats real murder. And real murders come from gangs and drug cartels. Now you want a safer society. And a safer neighborhood for our kids in future generations, then you decriminalize certain drugs. Just because weed is legal or cocaine, doesnt mean more Americans will use it. People will use it now, and its illegal. But what im saying is, by legalizing these certain drugs, as weed, and decriminalizing cocaine to an extent, we can finally strike a valid blow to the gangs and drug caryels operations. But i guess, politicians and FBI should know that, but fixing the problem would be a problem for them. Why? Because as stated it would be nothing for them to make their arguments over when running for office. Could you imagine, what a mayorial debate would be like if they didnt have mass homicides from drugs and gang wars to talk about?? The bigget problem in society then would just be these red light camaras. Killing our pockets. Violence and wars is what they feed on. They need the gangs to fight as much as the gangs need a rival gang to fight against. Its a circle of insanity

The way we sit and talk the good talk, but keep doing the same things. Over and over again. With the same result. We have come to accept gays, transgenders, and even gay marraige as a society of many who are religious. But yet cannot accept the drugs. Or the mindset of these gang members who only live what they know. The streets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ladt person to respond is the exact example of why society will never advance. You can keep fighting the fact the pot is hot, until it blows in your face and burns you. But yea lets do it your way. And wait for the minority side of society, to join together in revolt one day. You think those revolutionary ideas are dead to many blks and latinos? Its not. And thinking that way will only lead to another civil war among us. Hope your family will be ready when it does.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also to the Mike Weisman, i am located in south chicago area. 55 AND WESTERN. but ive lived in almost every inch of this city. From inglewood, to humboldt park, to even Dekalb,IL. I experience racism, walking down the street last year and a car full of young white males drive by, and scream get out of dekalb you ******* N*****!!!. So when i speak on social topics and others, i only speak from my experiences. My view of America, and what its like being a minority in it. Because let me say, its not fun. Its not fun walking into walmart and being looked at as if im from out of space...being looked at like i may rob you, so you tense up. Being prejudged. Without evidence. Thats what we face everyday in our America. Cops who grab you by the balls when they stop you on a "random frisk". Who hit you. But who can you tell on the cop? Especially if your just a no good gang banger. Ive seen cops bring a rival gamg member to our neighborhood, and tell the gang members that they can attack him. And that they wont say anything. Thats the reality of our type of world. Its a lion eat dog type of world in the REAL streets which is exactly right, whites wont understand that. Because 9times out of 10, you grew up in a different environmemt. Thats what i feel. I voice the opinios of the people ive grown around, and the horror stories they have survived in this wonderful country of freedom and justice and so many ideologies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome Kendllb360

 

There's a lot you say I agree with, and even more I disagree with. I'm sure you've got experiences I've only seen in movies, but some of your perceptions on how things got this way are not historically accurate. Unfortunately, your writing style is very difficult to read because you move from point to point quickly. Maybe you could grab a single thought and just focus on that....or perhaps conduct an "ask me anything" and field questions to make a conversation easier to follow.

 

Maybe you could try a formal introduction that lies in the scope of our online community here...How do you fell about concealed carry? What's the black community think of the concealed carry law?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Magslap:

 

 

I wanted to say, no more money is not the solution persay. Infact, as ive stated numerous times, money is the problem. Its always been money. Never changed. Money is why we fight. Its why we commit murder, and why we steal and why we rob. Truth be told, a perfect world can ONLY exist if there was no more money. If each man had to build his own life. House, food, etc. Money is why we are warring with other countries, so why is it surprising that gangs war with other gangs over money. Cartels fight other cartels, over money.

 

Its a circle is what im saying. But we cant get rid of money can we??? Or we wont. We need our social statuses dont we? We need our filthy rich, and our dirt poor to set a difference from eachother dont we?? Tjats mankinds problem. We turn from god and turn to the Almighty dollar. I dont even know who made money, but i know in the beginning thee was none. All im saying in these essays i keep writing, is that we all want peace. To live comfortable in any neigborhood. We can deal with and expect crime to continue. That cool. Thats why we have our rights to bear arms and each one protect whats his. But the vast amount of killings from gangs and drugs in our inner cities cant be ignored. And i only offer realistic solutions. Not racial self righteous properganda. Or ignorant comments as to our situation. I feel it doesnt take an educated man to have reasoning. Reasoning is what humans are born with. It sets us apart from any other living creature in the world. So use reasoning in dealing with this issue. We want the "gun" killings to slow down in our country. Thats our main focus. Is our guns. And my solutions i feel are pretty reasonable in the view of slowing down these killings. So the gang problem, is a pro gun activist problem as well. Even if you live in a nice pretty neighborhood. What happens in my neighborhood effects you too. Bc you wish to keep your 2 admendment rights. Well, if gang and caryel wars continue on our soil, then you can soon kiss your rights good bye. And blame it on the blks and latinos and their ghettos, who you failed to address as a society. Because our "hood" problems, are just as much yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome Kendllb360.

I have to disagree, but that the great part of this forum. We all don't have to think exactly alike and our different perspectives help move the cause along.

I think our biggest problem is poor education. The next is not putting those that shoot at people for non-self defense reasons away long enough. It's a turn style in there.

​The current system funds education with property tax dollars. How does that fair out when the property taxes are not the same across the board.

Educate our children or least give them hope. That's where I would start.

 

The fight on drugs is no longer the theme song. The donations for the fight on drugs are almost at a halt, so people had to find a new way to make money. The word Gun gets them the donations and the fancy cars. It's not about the children anymore, it's how much you can scam someone for.

 

Get the drugs off the street and there would less reasons to fight for a street corner.

 

Again, just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...