jim123 Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:04 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:04 PM Fiod holder may or may not be carrying but present on their property and giving a visitor without a fiod permission to carry one of the foid holders guns. Just wondering.
vito Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:10 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:10 PM Who would know? I've let my son shoot at the range with me and he does not have a FOID.
gregivq Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:15 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:15 PM Are you in control of your firearm if that person is carrying it? If not then the other person is in its possession making the whole scenario illegal. That's the way I see it.
WARFACE Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:17 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:17 PM My friend takes people pheasant hunting with him with no FOIDs. No FOID means one cannot legally own or purchase a gun but you can lend them one as long as you are present. I took my wife to the range before we were married and she had no FOID, no problem but I had to supervise her at all times.
WARFACE Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:26 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:26 PM I would look up the law or consult an attorney before taking any advice from here, better safe than sorry but IMO you are good to go based on my experience.
kwc Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:52 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:52 PM The OP asked about legality, not what is likely common practice or what someone could successfully do without getting caught. The FOID Act (430 ILCS 65, Section 2) is where you'll find the answer. Assuming we're talking about Illinois residents, here are the potential exceptions that would allow a resident to possess a firearm and ammunition in Illinois without a FOID: Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions. ( b ) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to: (11) Unemancipated minors while in the custody and immediate control of their parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor if the parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; (14) Resident hunters who are properly authorized to hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled; (15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization Of course, keep in mind the federal prohibitions apply at all times--so a federally-prohibited person wouldn't be able to possess a firearm at any time. Carrying suggests, to me, the guest is walking around idependently on private property with a loaded handgun. A person must be able to legally possess in order to carry. Therefore, a guest would not be allowed to carry a firearm without a FOID unless one of the FOID Act exceptions (listed above) are met. I'm gonna have to say the answer to the OP's question, based on the FOID Act, is probably "no." .
soylentgreen Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:55 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:55 PM I agree totally with seeking legal advice...but...my opinion is that on your private property, you can more-or-less allow or disallow anything you want. A FOID is required to own, purchase, transport or POSSESS a firearm. What is the legal definition of "possess"? As others have cited, we've all taken someone without a FOID to the range. But, if you "lent" a gun to a friend who didn't have a FOID so that they could keep it in their house or car, that'd clearly be illegal. But is it illegal if I have a FOID and my wife doesn't and I keep a gun in the house? Must it be locked up so she can't access it when I'm not there? This is the main reason why I insisted my wife get a FOID. The letter of the law is sometimes ridiculous...and some overzealous cop might interpret it in any way he wants. My guess is it'd be okay for you to allow someone to carry on your property as long as you are present. It'd be best if they had a FOID. Again, seek a lawyer's advice.
2A4Cook Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:57 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:57 PM I don't see what legal repercussions the property owner could face, but the guest would be guilty of possessing a firearm without a FOID.
gangrel Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:03 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:03 PM I agree totally with seeking legal advice...but...my opinion is that on your private property, you can more-or-less allow or disallow anything you want. A FOID is required to own, purchase, transport or POSSESS a firearm. What is the legal definition of "possess"? As others have cited, we've all taken someone without a FOID to the range. But, if you "lent" a gun to a friend who didn't have a FOID so that they could keep it in their house or car, that'd clearly be illegal. But is it illegal if I have a FOID and my wife doesn't and I keep a gun in the house? Must it be locked up so she can't access it when I'm not there? This is the main reason why I insisted my wife get a FOID. The letter of the law is sometimes ridiculous...and some overzealous cop might interpret it in any way he wants. My guess is it'd be okay for you to allow someone to carry on your property as long as you are present. It'd be best if they had a FOID. Again, seek a lawyer's advice. That may be your opinion, but it is not what the law allows. For example, prohibited persons. If your guest is a convicted felon, or a drug addict, or is subject of an order of protection, It is not legal to allow that person to be in possession of a firearm, private property or not. If they are otherwise eligible to receive a FOID, see KWC's post above.
WARFACE Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:04 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:04 PM The first time I took my wife to the range without a FOID, (Megasports) hassled me about it, no suprise there, but they said if there was a gun-related mishap with her, that I would be equally responsible. I knew she didn't need a FOID and I pointed out all the money I had spent there over the years so they relented but they sure weren't happy about it. I don't mean this to be a Mega bashing thread, just sharing my experience. I, for one, wouldn't take my eye off of a person who I lent a gun to that didn't have a FOID.
Xwing Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:28 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:28 PM The OP asked about legality, not what is likely common practice or what someone could successfully do without getting caught. The FOID Act (430 ILCS 65, Section 2) is where you'll find the answer. Assuming we're talking about Illinois residents, here are the potential exceptions that would allow a resident to possess a firearm and ammunition in Illinois without a FOID: Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions. ( b ) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to: (11) Unemancipated minors while in the custody and immediate control of their parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor if the parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; (14) Resident hunters who are properly authorized to hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled; (15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization Of course, keep in mind the federal prohibitions apply at all times--so a federally-prohibited person wouldn't be able to possess a firearm at any time. Carrying suggests, to me, the guest is walking around idependently on private property with a loaded handgun. A person must be able to legally possess in order to carry. Therefore, a guest would not be allowed to carry a firearm without a FOID unless one of the FOID Act exceptions (listed above) are met. I'm gonna have to say the answer to the OP's question, based on the FOID Act, is probably "no." . I'd have to agree on the "no"They don't fit into 15 b/c they are not on a firing range or training course. But the bigger question is: if they are interested enough in firearms that they'd like to carry while near a FOID holder, why don't they get a CCW (or at least a FOID)? It is an easy and inexpensive process to get a FOID. About 5 min and $10... I've had friends shoot at the range w/o a FOID. That is perfectly legal, and most (although not all) ranges allow it.
RoadyRunner Posted September 29, 2015 at 09:17 PM Posted September 29, 2015 at 09:17 PM Working registration at the Zombie shoot last weekend - lots of people handed me their FOID while checking in. Response I was told to provide was 'you don't need that here', and hand it right back. Of course, they were only allowing open but unloaded carry on the property (and no prohibition of ccw for those with a ccl)
DDM Posted September 30, 2015 at 02:53 AM Posted September 30, 2015 at 02:53 AM Seeing how a foid card is needed to even handle a gun at a gun shop in illinois, I would have to go with a no. If something happened both parties could be in trouble as you shouldn't even be allowed to touch a gun without having a foid.
RoadyRunner Posted September 30, 2015 at 03:37 AM Posted September 30, 2015 at 03:37 AM Seeing how a foid card is needed to even handle a gun at a gun shop in illinois,That's just store policy, not law. Why would you be there handling if not to consider purchasing? If your considering purchasing you need a FOID.so, they just want to short-circuit and avoid any issues later.
kwc Posted September 30, 2015 at 12:09 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 12:09 PM Seeing how a foid card is needed to even handle a gun at a gun shop in illinois,That's just store policy, not law. Can you cite where this exception can be found in Section 2 of the FOID Act?
RoadyRunner Posted September 30, 2015 at 12:22 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 12:22 PM Can you cite where this exception can be found in Section 2 of the FOID Act?Sure...Assuming the LGS has a range (I dont know of any that don't).... And the clerk has a FOID... And the prospective purchaser is 21 and otherwise eligible.... 2((15)A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; However, to actually purchase the FOID must be produced. So, most stores have their own policy to check the FOID at the beginning of the transaction. It saves everyone some time.
OldMarineVet Posted September 30, 2015 at 12:57 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 12:57 PM The first time I took my wife to the range without a FOID, (Megasports) hassled me about it, no suprise there, but they said if there was a gun-related mishap with her, that I would be equally responsible. I knew she didn't need a FOID and I pointed out all the money I had spent there over the years so they relented but they sure weren't happy about it. I don't mean this to be a Mega bashing thread, just sharing my experience. I, for one, wouldn't take my eye off of a person who I lent a gun to that didn't have a FOID.FYI only. No problem sharing a lane and supervising a non-FOID person at Article 2. I did it with my family all the time before they got their own FOID's. See lots of families, couples, sharing lanes and probably FOID's also
soylentgreen Posted September 30, 2015 at 01:05 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 01:05 PM I agree totally with seeking legal advice...but...my opinion is that on your private property, you can more-or-less allow or disallow anything you want. A FOID is required to own, purchase, transport or POSSESS a firearm. What is the legal definition of "possess"? As others have cited, we've all taken someone without a FOID to the range. But, if you "lent" a gun to a friend who didn't have a FOID so that they could keep it in their house or car, that'd clearly be illegal. But is it illegal if I have a FOID and my wife doesn't and I keep a gun in the house? Must it be locked up so she can't access it when I'm not there? This is the main reason why I insisted my wife get a FOID. The letter of the law is sometimes ridiculous...and some overzealous cop might interpret it in any way he wants. My guess is it'd be okay for you to allow someone to carry on your property as long as you are present. It'd be best if they had a FOID. Again, seek a lawyer's advice. That may be your opinion, but it is not what the law allows. For example, prohibited persons. If your guest is a convicted felon, or a drug addict, or is subject of an order of protection, It is not legal to allow that person to be in possession of a firearm, private property or not. If they are otherwise eligible to receive a FOID, see KWC's post above. Agreed. And, yeah, I said it was nothing but an opinion. I was PRESUMING the person wasn't a felon, etc.
Jatwood29 Posted September 30, 2015 at 05:14 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 05:14 PM In my opinion, the only exemption that could apply here is the one already cited. 2((15)A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; However, there are 2 things that I believe disqualifies the original premise...1. the activity where the FOID holder is supervising the non-FOID has to be at a range or a recognized training session. (I have a range in my backyard, so we wont say that is an immediate disqualifier)2. Direct Supervision is where I think you loose on this one. To be merely present on the property I dont think would hold up as being under direct supervision. As pointed out there are exemptions to needing a FOID However, I do not think this qualifies as one of them. Furthermore, if it is the landowners gun he is using as you stated, that landowner would be in it deep too since that could be considered transfering a firearm to someone without a FOID not to mention not following the waiting period.
gangrel Posted September 30, 2015 at 07:02 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 07:02 PM In my opinion, the only exemption that could apply here is the one already cited. 2( (15)A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; However, there are 2 things that I believe disqualifies the original premise...1. the activity where the FOID holder is supervising the non-FOID has to be at a range or a recognized training session. (I have a range in my backyard, so we wont say that is an immediate disqualifier)2. Direct Supervision is where I think you loose on this one. To be merely present on the property I dont think would hold up as being under direct supervision. As pointed out there are exemptions to needing a FOID However, I do not think this qualifies as one of them. Furthermore, if it is the landowners gun he is using as you stated, that landowner would be in it deep too since that could be considered transfering a firearm to someone without a FOID not to mention not following the waiting period. The waiting period applies to buying or transferring ownership of a firearm. If the waiting period applied here, it would also apply to lending a firearm to a friend or family member, as would keeping a record of the transaction for 10 years.
vito Posted September 30, 2015 at 09:09 PM Posted September 30, 2015 at 09:09 PM I think there is also an exception for gang members in Chicago since so many of them carry and probably don't have a FOID, let alone a CCL.
soylentgreen Posted October 1, 2015 at 01:56 PM Posted October 1, 2015 at 01:56 PM I think there is also an exception for gang members in Chicago since so many of them carry and probably don't have a FOID, let alone a CCL. They fact that the gangbangers own and transfer weapons without a FOID is proof we need more gun control!
Bubbacs Posted October 3, 2015 at 10:18 PM Posted October 3, 2015 at 10:18 PM Who hands a guest/friend one of THEIR handguns while on the property, but isn't actually carrying a handgun themselves?One can imagine the line at the patio for the BBQ as you open the safe and pass out handguns! Not on a range or training facility, no FOID, no possession.
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