Blended Learning- Rollout end of 2015, finalized 1st qtr 2016

[mjw45]

Decided to start a new thread on this, last one get a little personal at times, IIRC.

 

So I just got an NRA email stating that Blended Learning will be implemented this fall and fully implemented by first quarter 2016.

 

http://trainingupdate.nra.org/#3837

 

Not much time to work out the bugs.

 

One thing that stuck out, besides everything that has been hashed out before-

 

'Once you are satisfied that the students have fulfilled each learning objective, you can check them as passed and print their certificates through NRAInstructors.org.'

 

 

Do they not realize that some of us operate in the sticks and cell phone coverage is spotty, let alone internet.

 

If I do not have Internet access, will I even be able to print out certificates?

 

And what about small private classes, now I need to drag a printer with me to each one?

And internet access again, I never know before I get to a site if my cell-based internet will work there, that day. Even if it worked yesterday, it might not work today.

 

I really wish there was a longer transition on this to be able to work out the kinks.

I can't help but feel like- 'Here it is, you'll like it because we say so.'

 

And I really have no hope that an organization that still, after years of saying they were working on it, cannot allow uploads of student information from a DB or spreadsheet, being able to pull off E-Learning.

 

Uploading from a spreadsheet or text file is trivial if you already have an online database.

A full E-Learning experience is not.

 

I've said it before, how many other instructors have all their students information already on their computer in some format and the NRA only allows us to sit there and cut and paste each article on information.

 

Will the books still be available?

They are a great resource for those that actually read them.

Students tell me all the time how valuable the books actually are.

 

I know I need to contact the NRA Training program about this, but I don't know of anyone that has gotten a meaningful response from them yet.

 

Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

[Molly B.]

I am going to wait until the roll out when the whole course plan is available and then make my assessment as to whether it will work for me.

[mjw45]

I am going to wait until the roll out when the whole course plan is available and then make my assessment as to whether it will work for me.

That seems to be the only options available to us.

 

The NRA has not been responsive to Instructors concerns, nor has it been open to what the process will be.

And with the time frame stated for rollout, there is not much of a chance to fix issues as they crop up.

 

Why they cannot let the old system stay in place for 6 months to a year to iron out all the issues with E-Learning is beyond me.

It just adds to the- cramming it down our throats feeling.

 

We will really hate to loose NRA Basic Pistol.

We discussed it when we started IL CCW, we could run our own class and save $15 per student and have less paperwork.

But we feel there is a real value in the NRA training, the book, the name recognition, so we decided to stick with it.

 

Even if we go it alone, our class will not change, except we will have to develop our own handouts for day 1.

Which to do as nice of a job as the NRA BP book will be a lot of work.

[3ddiver]

 

Will the books still be available?

 

It states that the current packets will be obsolete but no mention of the book. My guess is they will change the book. I agree, I think it is a good book and also one of the reasons why we chose to keep teaching the BP class even though we have our own handgun fundamentals class.

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Got the same email. See my ad in the for sale forum in a few seconds.

[mjw45]

CGS, just another reason I am not liking the way they are rolling this out, timeframe wise, let alone all the other issues.

 

How many others were told in their instructor training to buy in bulk to save on shipping, to keep plenty on hand, that sometimes the packets are out of stock (I have seen this before, a week or two to get them back in, at least in sufficient quantity, especially when IL CCW started), etc.

 

Now those who followed that advise are going to have maybe a few months to use up the packets?

 

And during the winter, which is a slow time for us, by choice.

 

We did enough blizzard classes in 2013/14 winter to last a while, having a private range is a great asset, except for clearing tons of snow from rural property and township roads which may not get plowed for days. We almost got snowed in one day when we had 7+ inches drop during class, not counting what fell overnight/morning.

 

End of 2015 could be december, 1st qtr 2016 could be January, we have no way of knowing just how wide this window will be.

 

And that is not much of a window for those that need to order more, we will have just a few more classes this year and attendance could be anywhere from 4-18 students in each class, it varies that much for us.

 

And we need to order more packets (maybe get some from you CGS, but I think distance may not work out).

 

I do not mind having some extra in stock, as I know I can sell just the books in class. I just contacted the NRA about availability of the books after the E-Learning rollout.

 

But over $800 worth would be a big hit, and could take a while to move, if not required for class.

[sirflyguy]

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Yep, that's why I have so many. One class I didn't have enough and NRA wasn't sending them and two days before class I was running around buying packets from other instructors. After that I started buying in quantities of 100.

[mjw45]

We have just been buying 18 or so at a time lately, and only one of us.

When things were busy we kept a lot more on hand.

 

Have not wanted to get stuck with too many on hand, and knew this was coming, sometime.

Although I still have my doubts about them making this scheduled rollout, it's been pushed back before.

 

And I don't think it will go as smoothly as they think it will, maybe a roll it out, cancel the current BP, then oops, maybe we will keep current BP a little longer.

 

What do you mean it isn't working right?

What do you mean trainers don't like it yet?

Why is everyone yelling at us, this is the new way, they have to like it.

 

I guess I have just spent too much time in mission critical IT. Have plan, test things out before rollout, have a backup plan, have a roll back plan for when things don't work.

Allow plenty of time for customers to transition to the new system!

 

And things still go wrong.

 

Oh yeah, talk to and listen to your customers.

 

Even if things go wrong, if people are kept informed about what is happening and what is being done to fix it, they are much more understanding than being kept in the dark.

 

Still hoping for the best, but I fear there will be many issues, and some unworkable ones for using this for IL CCW.

 

But what do I know, all I've gotten is an email with a drop dead date.

 

[wtr100]

Easy peasy - just keep teaching the obsolete NRA lesson plan - you can even leave teach there are more than single action revolvers, double action revolvers and semi-automatics

 

You can even report the training on the instructor portal as 'other'

[wtr100]

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

 

 

[purple] the Blended part of Advanced Pistol isn't ready yet [/purple]

 

I wonder if there isn't some concern about some 'national training' course are acceptable and some aren't - or maybe they're afraid some of the Advanced Pistol guys are getting off the reservation and not cutting the heads off their IPSC targets ....

[mjw45]

Easy peasy - just keep teaching the obsolete NRA lesson plan - you can even leave teach there are more than single action revolvers, double action revolvers and semi-automatics

 

You can even report the training on the instructor portal as 'other'

 

I think many of us are planning on that, would actually make things a little easier in some ways.

 

But what to do about handouts/class material?

The current NRA book is a great resource that we highly recomend students read after class.

Some even do.

 

Handouts for day 2/IL CCW are easy compared to doing day 1/ NRA BP type class.

 

Just gathering up the photos/diagrams needed to explain firearms/type/actions/ammunition/stances/eye dominance etc. is going to be a huge undertaking.

 

Then making sure there are no mistakes, without major peer review.

 

Not looking forward to it.

 

The course plan is not even an issue, we already cover all the NRA material, but in our own way/sequence that fits our needs.

 

We know students don't really retain much information, which is why handouts are so important.

And why we spend so much time on the range, practical skills are more important and easily retained.

Being able to spend more time on the range would be a great thing for us, we are always trying to shorten up classroom so we can spend more time on the range, but there is just so much to cover.

And we already schedule at least 9 hours per day, and shoot both days.

 

I think blended learning could be a good thing, I would love for my students to come to class better prepared so that I can concentrate on teaching them to shoot/safely handle firearms.

 

I just don't have much faith in the way it is being handled right now.

Nor in E-learning really. I have watched people take some online E-Learning type classes, not very impressed. Hopefully the NRA's will be better.

 

So I am not a hater, just have lots of concerns, particularly time frame and lack of flexibility.

[sirflyguy]

 

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

 

 

[purple] the Blended part of Advanced Pistol isn't ready yet [/purple]

 

This actually crossed my mind as a joke while I was searching for this thread!

[RoadyRunner]

Easy peasy - just keep teaching the obsolete NRA lesson plan - you can even leave teach there are more than single action revolvers, double action revolvers and semi-automatics

 

You can even report the training on the instructor portal as 'other'

Yep. Just teach the current plan, which CLIC is designed to work with to provide a rounded 16 hours and complete the requirements. Yes, students wouldn't walk with NRA-BP, but they would still qualify for a CCL.

[RoadyRunner]

Do the hours a student spends on the online component of a blended training program count as training hours for the IL CCL? I suspect not. When a student comes to you for certification of BP - how are you going to make up to 16 hours of instruction?

[mjw45]

16 hours classroom training needed for IL CCL.

Can you teach NRA BP on one day, award certificate and then count it as 8 hours of credit?

 

According to the law you can, but I'm not sure I would want to.

 

You could also set up a bank of computers and teach everything in class.

Not even remotely workable for me, that pesky internet access issue.

 

As much of a geek as I am, I am against requiring internet access to award certificates, which is how it sounds the instructor will have to do it, from the little information that has been offered.

 

Even with cable internet here at home, just a week or so ago the whole town was suffering outages for days. Worked for a few minutes then would die out.

 

Not the first time. And then there was the outage a few years ago, where Comcast fixed another unit and broke ours. Took 3-4 days to get it fixed. Original tech had unplugged something.

 

I can just imagine- 'Great class folks, you all passed. But the internet is down, so you do not get your certificates. Maybe I can mail them to you.'

 

Technology at it's finest.

 

A store and forward solution would alleviate this issue. Enter everything into the computer, print out certificates and then upload the information when you have internet access.

 

Yes this change is going to be a real issue for IL, but that is our own issue and not the biggest concern I have with the E-Learning rollout.

[Rockdiver]

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

The NRA has decided that advanced training (they are rolling out PRACTICAL courses) will be done by coaches that will have to cert as such through the NRA. The first rollout will be by invitation only. Those pimping the blended learning BS will be invited. Some of us will get spanked. It will not mean much to instructors who have time tested Practical coursework in their current offerings, but may benefit those who have never taught advanced curricula.

 

Rocco

[sirflyguy]

 

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

The NRA has decided that advanced training (they are rolling out PRACTICAL courses) will be done by coaches that will have to cert as such through the NRA. The first rollout will be by invitation only. Those pimping the blended learning BS will be invited. Some of us will get spanked. It will not mean much to instructors who have time tested Practical coursework in their current offerings, but may benefit those who have never taught advanced curricula.

 

Rocco

 

Thanks for the info.

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

 

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

The NRA has decided that advanced training (they are rolling out PRACTICAL courses) will be done by coaches that will have to cert as such through the NRA. The first rollout will be by invitation only. Those pimping the blended learning BS will be invited. Some of us will get spanked. It will not mean much to instructors who have time tested Practical coursework in their current offerings, but may benefit those who have never taught advanced curricula.

 

Rocco

 

In addition, it appears to get certified as a practical coach requires a hefty investment in travel, only a few ranges nationwide seem to be offering it at this time.

[Rockdiver]

 

 

On a similar note, does anyone know why they are not accepting any more Advanced Pistol Instructor applications after Sep.24. 2016?

 

The NRA has decided that advanced training (they are rolling out PRACTICAL courses) will be done by coaches that will have to cert as such through the NRA. The first rollout will be by invitation only. Those pimping the blended learning BS will be invited. Some of us will get spanked. It will not mean much to instructors who have time tested Practical coursework in their current offerings, but may benefit those who have never taught advanced curricula.

Rocco

In addition, it appears to get certified as a practical coach requires a hefty investment in travel, only a few ranges nationwide seem to be offering it at this time.

 

Meh. Not worth it unless you would prefer to follow a curriculum prepared by someone else. I can see a few instructors this might appeal to...

 

But in my ever so humble opinion, I would advise most who would ask to take some serious coursework in the discipline they seek to teach with SEVERAL different vetted instructors and formulate answers to some hard questions about what they are looking to teach....and what their capabilities are.

 

That would be a much better investment, and will give you a much clearer picture as to where you stand in delivering advanced coursework effectively.

 

Rocco

[wtr100]

As I understand NRA's coaching vs instructing philosophy, an instructor delivers a standard curriculum while a coach provides instruction on improving performance on a specific skill / discipline

 

Recently coaches were edited out of the BSA program, not that we had any but I was hoping to add some to my volunteer staff. We do a lot more supervising and coaching on the range than teaching courses.

[Smallbore]

I just held a coach class which included the scholastic pistol program for juniors. I have not heard if there will be a new credentials required for the above mentioned practical shooting disciplines. I had recently sat in on a pistol coaches class to learn about the junior SPP. The demonstrations were not respecting the NRA number one rule of gun safety. I was going out of my mind.

Things are a changing with the NRA.

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Meh. Not worth it unless you would prefer to follow a curriculum prepared by someone else. I can see a few instructors this might appeal to...

 

But in my ever so humble opinion, I would advise most who would ask to take some serious coursework in the discipline they seek to teach with SEVERAL different vetted instructors and formulate answers to some hard questions about what they are looking to teach....and what their capabilities are.

 

That would be a much better investment, and will give you a much clearer picture as to where you stand in delivering advanced coursework effectively.

 

Rocco

 

Rocco I agree.

 

And when I call other instructors offering my service as an assistant instructor or RSO, the first question "What credentials or certifications do you have?" The 2nd question after I answer, "That's it?!"