marathonrunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:56 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:56 AM My CZP09 is a fabulous pistol, but the decocker on it, I am kind of leary of it. I did read of a Ruger P89 that was decocked and it fired! Anybody ever hear of such an occurance? I am thinking maybe I should put a rubber O ring on the firing pin so in case the decocker does fail it will add another layer of safety. Then again, when you chamber a round, could a factory defective hammer fall and fail to lock back? For this reason, I only use my P09 for a range toy. I just don't trust decockers. I dont' know if anybody else feels this way but I don't like it.
jrlivin2 Posted March 13, 2015 at 04:03 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 04:03 AM I've had a Sig P229 for 17 years and have never had an issue with the decocker.
DoverGunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 04:06 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 04:06 AM My Beretta 96a1 scares the Bejeezus out of me . I put a primed case into the chamber , with the hammer back I engaged the safety , the hammer flew forward at what seemed Warp Speed . It did not strike/fire the primed case . Just the same I do not trust it
quackersmacker Posted March 13, 2015 at 04:51 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 04:51 AM MRunner, Really, you're gonna fool around with rubber O-rings to enhance the safety of your decocker? You're gonna second-guess and improve upon all the work of the gunsmiths and firearms engineers at CZ? Really? Seriously? Why would you ever presume to think you personally can improve upon the CZP09? And, if you don't like the decocker, just swap it out for the safety. Takes two minutes, and then you can carry in Condition 1. Cocked & locked. I'm guessing that's not gonna happen either......
RealityCheck Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:20 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:20 AM On the Ruger P89DC, the first half of the decocker travel causes the firing pin to cam inward, behind the rear of the slide. If you're careful, you can visually confirm that the firing pin has moved to a point where it cannot be struck before you finish the stroke and the hammer comes down. You also don't have to let the hammer slam down on the slide - you can always catch it and drop it gently. The designs vary - on my Beretta Cheetah, applying the safety when the gun is cocked causes the hammer to decock about halfway. That design makes me a bit more nervous than the Ruger, because I can't visually confirm that the hammer won't hit the pin... but I still tend to trust it.
Elmer Fudd Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:22 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:22 AM So you are willing to carry a Glock which is essentially DAO and doesn't have a decocker. Yet you are concerned about a pistol that has a different manual of arms and has a decocker and you are afraid of it. I never owned a CZ but I can say that after having owned numerous Sigs and FNH's I have never come remotely close to having that concern. Come to think of it I haven't had a problem with 1911's that have a safety, or a Glock.....the problem isn't the firearm, once its a question of training and properly learning the manual of arms for the particular firearm.
chislinger Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:31 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:31 AM On my PX4 the decocker physically blocks the hammer from striking the firing pin before the hammer is dropped. I don't worry about it at all.
BShawn Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:38 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:38 AM I've never heard of a p89 discharging while using de-cocker, and would be interested in hearing about that!
quackersmacker Posted March 13, 2015 at 06:54 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 06:54 AM So you are willing to carry a Glock which is essentially DAO and doesn't have a decocker. Yet you are concerned about a pistol that has a different manual of arms and has a decocker and you are afraid of it. I never owned a CZ but I can say that after having owned numerous Sigs and FNH's I have never come remotely close to having that concern. Come to think of it I haven't had a problem with 1911's that have a safety, or a Glock.....the problem isn't the firearm, once its a question of training and properly learning the manual of arms for the particular firearm. Or there could be another problem, perhaps theh. Oooooh, ouch. But you probably voiced the unspoken thoughts of many of us. MRunner, why do you agonize over all these things, and continually subject all of us to it? Mauserme, and other moderators, that's just a question, not an attack.
patriot1776 Posted March 13, 2015 at 10:23 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 10:23 AM Decocker no , now i'm an old timer and what always un nerved me was the rolling block safety and back in the day there were a few problems . I always wondered if it was certain brand ammo or reloads using soft primers ?
2A4Cook Posted March 13, 2015 at 10:49 AM Posted March 13, 2015 at 10:49 AM I'd agonize a lot more over carrying a DAO pistol with a safety engaged, especially since those like Rugers & M&P's tend to have tiny little ill-placed chiclets that ain't gonna be easy to disengage with an adrenaline dump ... assuming you even remember to do it. I carry 1911 types in condition 1, and occasionally a decocked Sig. When I carry a DAO with a safety, that safety is ALWAYS disengaged. A total of one time, I deholstered at the end of the day and found a 1911 style safety had managed to disengage itself ... and only because it was ambi and I had gotten in and out of the car with it numerous times. Still, I kept my grubby finger off the trigger, and nothing bad happened.
TomKoz Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:35 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:35 PM Depends. How competent is DeOperator?
TRJ Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:36 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:36 PM My Beretta 96a1 scares the Bejeezus out of me . I put a primed case into the chamber , with the hammer back I engaged the safety , the hammer flew forward at what seemed Warp Speed . It did not strike/fire the primed case . Just the same I do not trust itStop worrying. It'll never happen. Actually look at the way the safety/ decocker works...it rotates a block into the path of the firing pin.
TRJ Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:37 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:37 PM Depends. How competent is DeOperator?Lol.
lee n. field Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:46 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:46 PM I did read of a Ruger P89 that was decocked and it fired! Something would have to be physically broken with the gun for that to happen. I'm not finding anything with the g00gle. Not impossible, but I'd like to see a write up of that incident. The only decocker I've ever heard of being a danger is the old CZ-52 pistol's decocker.
TRJ Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:48 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:48 PM When it comes to safeties/decockers the best one I've ever used was a HK USP. Center position is fire....up is safe...hard long push down to decock. It allowed for cocked and locked or decocked on chambered round giving you the option to carry however you are comfortable.
TRJ Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:53 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 12:53 PM I'd agonize a lot more over carrying a DAO pistol with a safety engaged, especially since those like Rugers & M&P's tend to have tiny little ill-placed chiclets that ain't gonna be easy to disengage with an adrenaline dump ... assuming you even remember to do it. I carry 1911 types in condition 1, and occasionally a decocked Sig. When I carry a DAO with a safety, that safety is ALWAYS disengaged. A total of one time, I deholstered at the end of the day and found a 1911 style safety had managed to disengage itself ... and only because it was ambi and I had gotten in and out of the car with it numerous times. Still, I kept my grubby finger off the trigger, and nothing bad happened.I know there are kydex holster makers (JM Custom) that mold holsters that will engage the safety on a 1911 and block it from getting bumped off by an ambi switch. I doubt it's of much help for the old guys, but for newbs it might add a measure of safety.
marathonrunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:42 PM Author Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:42 PM So you are willing to carry a Glock which is essentially DAO and doesn't have a decocker. Yet you are concerned about a pistol that has a different manual of arms and has a decocker and you are afraid of it. I never owned a CZ but I can say that after having owned numerous Sigs and FNH's I have never come remotely close to having that concern. Come to think of it I haven't had a problem with 1911's that have a safety, or a Glock.....the problem isn't the firearm, once its a question of training and properly learning the manual of arms for the particular firearm. Or there could be another problem, perhaps theh. Oooooh, ouch. But you probably voiced the unspoken thoughts of many of us. MRunner, why do you agonize over all these things, and continually subject all of us to it? Mauserme, and other moderators, that's just a question, not an attack. ugggg....we have to change your name to Ducksquacker....lol...no the trigger mod thread I was quite serious because there are two schools of thoughts, one group says no dont' mod it, the other says it's ok. My CZP09, I have been trying to determine should I use this for just a range toy or can I use it for self defense at home. OK then while I was getting it ready, I chambered the round and decocked it. It was then did I say to myself gee, that doesn't seem too safe.. There has been some posters here who felt the same uneasyness I have. I do not have much experience with decockers so it will take some time to get used to. I also know parts do fail and that is why I am asking what if
marathonrunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:45 PM Author Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:45 PM My Beretta 96a1 scares the Bejeezus out of me . I put a primed case into the chamber , with the hammer back I engaged the safety , the hammer flew forward at what seemed Warp Speed . It did not strike/fire the primed case . Just the same I do not trust itStop worrying. It'll never happen. Actually look at the way the safety/ decocker works...it rotates a block into the path of the firing pin. TRJ, i don't know how decockers do that, maybe if you can find a graphic illustration and post it here, I wouldn't be feeling at bit uneasy. It's why I don't buy guns that are cocked and locked kind of carry.
marathonrunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:48 PM Author Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:48 PM MRunner, Really, you're gonna fool around with rubber O-rings to enhance the safety of your decocker? You're gonna second-guess and improve upon all the work of the gunsmiths and firearms engineers at CZ? Really? Seriously? Why would you ever presume to think you personally can improve upon the CZP09? And, if you don't like the decocker, just swap it out for the safety. Takes two minutes, and then you can carry in Condition 1. Cocked & locked. I'm guessing that's not gonna happen either...... ha@! you are right. That aint going to happen. Quckersmacker I doubt it would ever happen but what if the decocker malfunctioned and did not do its job? I am not trying to overthink this but to me cocked and locked, decocking any gun sounds like a bad idea. I am going to call CZ and see what they say
TRJ Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:54 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:54 PM My Beretta 96a1 scares the Bejeezus out of me . I put a primed case into the chamber , with the hammer back I engaged the safety , the hammer flew forward at what seemed Warp Speed . It did not strike/fire the primed case . Just the same I do not trust it Stop worrying. It'll never happen. Actually look at the way the safety/ decocker works...it rotates a block into the path of the firing pin.TRJ, i don't know how decockers do that, maybe if you can find a graphic illustration and post it here, I wouldn't be feeling at bit uneasy. It's why I don't buy guns that are cocked and locked kind of carry.You know, in NRA basic pistol class they go through all this stuff. They even have diagrams and real guns to demo with.
Neumann Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:54 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:54 PM Decocking mechanisms are thoroughly tested, at least by reputable manufacturers who have a lot at stake. If Harbor Freight sold pistols, I'd probably keep them unloaded I feel totally comfortable with the frame-mounted decocker on SIG pistols. The firing pin is blocked and the hammer falls only part way until you release the lever. Your finger is off the trigger, naturally. Sometimes the decocker is more than just that, especially for some slide mounted devices. You must leave the decocker in the "safe" position, which retracts and locks the firing pin. If you turn it back to "fire" the gun may fire if dropped on the hammer. On the other hand, leaving it in "safe" may let you pull the trigger in DA mode, but it will click and not fire (e.g. a SIG Mosquito). This leaves you with your pants down in an emergency unless you are careful with your operation of the pistol. With a SIG, the pistol is fully operational once you decock and release the lever.
marathonrunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:59 PM Author Posted March 13, 2015 at 01:59 PM Decocking mechanisms are thoroughly tested, at least by reputable manufacturers who have a lot at stake. If Harbor Freight sold pistols, I'd probably keep them unloaded I feel totally comfortable with the frame-mounted decocker on SIG pistols. The firing pin is blocked and the hammer falls only part way until you release the lever. Your finger is off the trigger, naturally. Sometimes the decocker is more than just that, especially for some slide mounted devices. You must leave the decocker in the "safe" position, which retracts and locks the firing pin. If you turn it back to "fire" the gun may fire if dropped on the hammer. On the other hand, leaving it in "safe" may let you pull the trigger in DA mode, but it will click and not fire (e.g. a SIG Mosquito). This leaves you with your pants down in an emergency unless you are careful with your operation of the pistol. With a SIG, the pistol is fully operational once you decock and release the lever.That sounds way too complicated for me! I am only a single celled organism....lol....at least my brain is. The learning curve on something like that for me at least would not make that a logical choice. By the way, when I bought my 9mm MP Shield, I was considering also buying the P938 Sig Sauer. But after reading up on it, the older models had quite a few problems with that being unreliable. Also heard they corrected all that but I passed on that just becuase of all the negative stuff I heard about it. I know every pistol mFg had their share but Glock's do have a solid reputation for reliability
solareclipse2 Posted March 13, 2015 at 02:13 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 02:13 PM I'm not sure what's complicated about this. Load the magazine.Insert magazine in pistol.Rack slide to chamber a round.Now the hammer is back.Use the decocker to safely drop the hammer.Pistol is ready to fire.My Sig was my first gun and my carry gun. I had no reservations about carrying a gun with no external safety and a loaded chamber.
stm Posted March 13, 2015 at 02:41 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 02:41 PM ... My chief aim here was to start threads and rile everybody up. I sometimes feel like I am being like the media....lol...trying to get some ratings.... http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55359&p=882403
TRJ Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:02 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:02 PM ... My chief aim here was to start threads and rile everybody up. I sometimes feel like I am being like the media....lol...trying to get some ratings.... http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55359&p=882403HERE'S A BIG CAPS LOCK +1 I APRROVE OF THIS POST! NEEDS TO BE STICKIED!
marathonrunner Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:02 PM Author Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:02 PM ... My chief aim here was to start threads and rile everybody up. I sometimes feel like I am being like the media....lol...trying to get some ratings.... http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55359&p=882403 STM. if you read many of my posts, that was a half joke but to answer question the lightening of trigger on carry gun was indeed great importance
barryware Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:03 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:03 PM My Beretta 96a1 scares the Bejeezus out of me . I put a primed case into the chamber , with the hammer back I engaged the safety , the hammer flew forward at what seemed Warp Speed . It did not strike/fire the primed case . Just the same I do not trust it Stop worrying. It'll never happen. Actually look at the way the safety/ decocker works...it rotates a block into the path of the firing pin. TRJ, i don't know how decockers do that, maybe if you can find a graphic illustration and post it here, I wouldn't be feeling at bit uneasy. It's why I don't buy guns that are cocked and locked kind of carry. http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=how+does+a+pistol+decocker+work
BShawn Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:06 PM Posted March 13, 2015 at 05:06 PM I did read of a Ruger P89 that was decocked and it fired! Something would have to be physically broken with the gun for that to happen. I'm not finding anything with the g00gle. Not impossible, but I'd like to see a write up of that incident. The only decocker I've ever heard of being a danger is the old CZ-52 pistol's decocker. I've been unable to find any for the p89 using my google-fu too.
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