jimbos883 Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:22 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:22 PM Ok so here is where I'm at. I placed an ad for sale of a handgun on Armslist. I get an enquiry and an offer to buy from a young man. I ask him for his FOID card and his Driver's License and come to find out that he will be 21 in July of this year. I know it is illegal for an FFL, by Federal law, to sell to anyone under 21. But the little research that I've done relating to Illinois law seems confusing. On one hand it I read that they must be 21 to purchase a handgun in another account i read that anyone above the age of 18 can purchase a handgun in the State of Illinois. Can someone clarify this for me, making the sale is not as important as following the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:44 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:44 PM Face to face non-FFL sales of handguns to one 18 years old or older is legal. If you have an FFL than you can not sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted January 20, 2015 at 10:38 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 10:38 PM (720 ILCS 5/24-3) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-3) Sec. 24-3. Unlawful sale or delivery of firearms. (A) A person commits the offense of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms when he or she knowingly does any of the following: (a) Sells or gives any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person to any person under 18 years of age. ( Sells or gives any firearm to a person under 21 years of age who has been convicted of a misdemeanor other than a traffic offense or adjudged delinquent. © Sells or gives any firearm to any narcotic addict. (d) Sells or gives any firearm to any person who has been convicted of a felony under the laws of this or any other jurisdiction. (e) Sells or gives any firearm to any person who has been a patient in a mental institution within the past 5 years. In this subsection (e): "Mental institution" means any hospital, institution, clinic, evaluation facility, mental health center, or part thereof, which is used primarily for the care or treatment of persons with mental illness. "Patient in a mental institution" means the person was admitted, either voluntarily or involuntarily, to a mental institution for mental health treatment, unless the treatment was voluntary and solely for an alcohol abuse disorder and no other secondary substance abuse disorder or mental illness. (f) Sells or gives any firearms to any person who is intellectually disabled. (g) Delivers any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such firearm for at least 72 hours after application for its purchase has been made, or delivers any rifle, shotgun or other long gun, or a stun gun or taser, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such rifle, shotgun or other long gun, or a stun gun or taser for at least 24 hours after application for its purchase has been made. However, this paragraph (g) does not apply to: (1) the sale of a firearm to a law enforcement officer if the seller of the firearm knows that the person to whom he or she is selling the firearm is a law enforcement officer or the sale of a firearm to a person who desires to purchase a firearm for use in promoting the public interest incident to his or her employment as a bank guard, armed truck guard, or other similar employment; (2) a mail order sale of a firearm to a nonresident of Illinois under which the firearm is mailed to a point outside the boundaries of Illinois; (3) the sale of a firearm to a nonresident of Illinois while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Illinois Department of State Police; or (4) the sale of a firearm to a dealer licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 923). For purposes of this paragraph (g), "application" means when the buyer and seller reach an agreement to purchase a firearm. (h) While holding any license as a dealer, importer, manufacturer or pawnbroker under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, manufactures, sells or delivers to any unlicensed person a handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is a die casting of zinc alloy or any other nonhomogeneous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of less than 800 degrees Fahrenheit. For purposes of this paragraph, (1) "firearm" is defined as in the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and (2) "handgun" is defined as a firearm designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, and includes a combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled. (i) Sells or gives a firearm of any size to any person under 18 years of age who does not possess a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card. (j) Sells or gives a firearm while engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail without being licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 923). In this paragraph (j): A person "engaged in the business" means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in the activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but does not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms. "With the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection; however, proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. (k) Sells or transfers ownership of a firearm to a person who does not display to the seller or transferor of the firearm a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card that has previously been issued in the transferee's name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. This paragraph (k) does not apply to the transfer of a firearm to a person who is exempt from the requirement of possessing a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under Section 2 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. For the purposes of this Section, a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card means (i) a Firearm Owner's Identification Card that has not expired or (ii) an approval number issued in accordance with subsection (a-10) of subsection 3 or Section 3.1 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act shall be proof that the Firearm Owner's Identification Card was valid. (1) In addition to the other requirements of this paragraph (k), all persons who are not federally licensed firearms dealers must also have complied with subsection (a-10) of Section 3 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act by determining the validity of a purchaser's Firearm Owner's Identification Card. (2) All sellers or transferors who have complied with the requirements of subparagraph (1) of this paragraph (k) shall not be liable for damages in any civil action arising from the use or misuse by the transferee of the firearm transferred, except for willful or wanton misconduct on the part of the seller or transferor. (l) Not being entitled to the possession of a firearm, delivers the firearm, knowing it to have been stolen or converted. It may be inferred that a person who possesses a firearm with knowledge that its serial number has been removed or altered has knowledge that the firearm is stolen or converted. ( Paragraph (h) of subsection (A) does not include firearms sold within 6 months after enactment of Public Act 78-355 (approved August 21, 1973, effective October 1, 1973), nor is any firearm legally owned or possessed by any citizen or purchased by any citizen within 6 months after the enactment of Public Act 78-355 subject to confiscation or seizure under the provisions of that Public Act. Nothing in Public Act 78-355 shall be construed to prohibit the gift or trade of any firearm if that firearm was legally held or acquired within 6 months after the enactment of that Public Act. © Sentence. (1) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph ©, (e), (f), (g), or (h) of subsection (A) commits a Class 4 felony. (2) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph ( or (i) of subsection (A) commits a Class 3 felony. (3) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (a) of subsection (A) commits a Class 2 felony. (4) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (a), (, or (i) of subsection (A) in any school, on the real property comprising a school, within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising a school, at a school related activity, or on or within 1,000 feet of any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school or school district to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, regardless of the time of day or time of year at which the offense was committed, commits a Class 1 felony. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (a), (, or (i) of subsection (A) in any school, on the real property comprising a school, within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising a school, at a school related activity, or on or within 1,000 feet of any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school or school district to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, regardless of the time of day or time of year at which the offense was committed, commits a Class 1 felony for which the sentence shall be a term of imprisonment of no less than 5 years and no more than 15 years. (5) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (a) or (i) of subsection (A) in residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any public park, courthouse, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development commits a Class 2 felony. (6) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (j) of subsection (A) commits a Class A misdemeanor. A second or subsequent violation is a Class 4 felony. (7) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) commits a Class 4 felony, except that a violation of subparagraph (1) of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) shall not be punishable as a crime or petty offense. A third or subsequent conviction for a violation of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) is a Class 1 felony. (8) A person 18 years of age or older convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (a) or (i) of subsection (A), when the firearm that was sold or given to another person under 18 years of age was used in the commission of or attempt to commit a forcible felony, shall be fined or imprisoned, or both, not to exceed the maximum provided for the most serious forcible felony so committed or attempted by the person under 18 years of age who was sold or given the firearm. (9) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (d) of subsection (A) commits a Class 3 felony. (10) Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (l) of subsection (A) commits a Class 2 felony if the delivery is of one firearm. Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (l) of subsection (A) commits a Class 1 felony if the delivery is of not less than 2 and not more than 5 firearms at the same time or within a one year period. Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (l) of subsection (A) commits a Class X felony for which he or she shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 6 years and not more than 30 years if the delivery is of not less than 6 and not more than 10 firearms at the same time or within a 2 year period. Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (l) of subsection (A) commits a Class X felony for which he or she shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 6 years and not more than 40 years if the delivery is of not less than 11 and not more than 20 firearms at the same time or within a 3 year period. Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (l) of subsection (A) commits a Class X felony for which he or she shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 6 years and not more than 50 years if the delivery is of not less than 21 and not more than 30 firearms at the same time or within a 4 year period. Any person convicted of unlawful sale or delivery of firearms in violation of paragraph (l) of subsection (A) commits a Class X felony for which he or she shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 6 years and not more than 60 years if the delivery is of 31 or more firearms at the same time or within a 5 year period. (D) For purposes of this Section: "School" means a public or private elementary or secondary school, community college, college, or university. "School related activity" means any sporting, social, academic, or other activity for which students' attendance or participation is sponsored, organized, or funded in whole or in part by a school or school district. (E) A prosecution for a violation of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) of this Section may be commenced within 6 years after the commission of the offense. A prosecution for a violation of this Section other than paragraph (g) of subsection (A) of this Section may be commenced within 5 years after the commission of the offense defined in the particular paragraph.(Source: P.A. 97-227, eff. 1-1-12; 97-347, eff. 1-1-12; 97-813, eff. 7-13-12; 97-1167, eff. 6-1-13; 98-508, eff. 8-19-13.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted January 20, 2015 at 11:15 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 11:15 PM Boba, please, paste more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paints-n-cows Posted January 21, 2015 at 12:19 AM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 12:19 AM Face to face non-FFL sales of handguns to one 18 years old or older is legal. If you have an FFL than you can not sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age. I'm sorry but before you start giving advice, perhaps you should take a moment to refresh your information. Thanks Bobapunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 21, 2015 at 02:17 AM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 02:17 AM Face to face non-FFL sales of handguns to one 18 years old or older is legal. If you have an FFL than you can not sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age. I feel the answer should be obvious to me, but am struggling to see it. Clearly federal law prohibits FFL sales of handguns to unlicensed persons under the age of 21. Federal law does not prohibit unlicensed persons from selling a handgun to another unlicensed person between the ages of 18 and 21. The IL ISP FOID FAQs state that in Illinois, the minimum age to purchase a handgun is 21., but doesn't cite a reference. The FAQ doesn't distinguish between FFL-to unlicensed person sales and unlicensed-to-unlicensed person sales. Is the OP's question clearly answered in Illinois statute? I've looked but can't find a restriction against unlicensed sales to someone under 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 21, 2015 at 02:41 AM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 02:41 AM The only restriction for 18 - 20 year olds purchasing from a private party is that they have a valid FOID card. If they have any convictions that would prohibit it, it is the states responsibility to revoke their FOID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted January 21, 2015 at 11:59 AM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 11:59 AM The only restriction for 18 - 20 year olds purchasing from a private party is that they have a valid FOID card. If they have any convictions that would prohibit it, it is the states responsibility to revoke their FOID. and we have the handy dandy FOID check site and 800 number now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted January 21, 2015 at 03:29 PM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 03:29 PM Face to face non-FFL sales of handguns to one 18 years old or older is legal. If you have an FFL than you can not sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age. I'm sorry but before you start giving advice, perhaps you should take a moment to refresh your information. Thanks BobapunkWhich part of what he posted is incorrect? Bobapunk highlighted that it is unlawful to sell to someone under the age of 18, essentially pointing out that state law does not prohibit sales to someone between 18 and 21, which is the OP's scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted January 21, 2015 at 07:56 PM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 07:56 PM Face to face non-FFL sales of handguns to one 18 years old or older is legal. If you have an FFL than you can not sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age.I feel the answer should be obvious to me, but am struggling to see it. Clearly federal law prohibits FFL sales of handguns to unlicensed persons under the age of 21. Federal law does not prohibit unlicensed persons from selling a handgun to another unlicensed person between the ages of 18 and 21. The IL ISP FOID FAQs state that in Illinois, the minimum age to purchase a handgun is 21., but doesn't cite a reference. The FAQ doesn't distinguish between FFL-to unlicensed person sales and unlicensed-to-unlicensed person sales. Is the OP's question clearly answered in Illinois statute? I've looked but can't find a restriction against unlicensed sales to someone under 21. ISP FAQ is not law, legally binding, or legal advice. Then again, neither are my posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbos883 Posted January 21, 2015 at 09:57 PM Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 09:57 PM Ok guys, from what I see it would be wise to err on the safe side and not sell to anyone under the age of 21. I really wouldn't want to be a test case for something as simple as this. As far as my personal sale goes I called it off, the young man wanted me to also provide him with a box of jacket hollow-points, now I really don't need the hassle. Thanks for the input maybe sooner or later some one will come up with the safe answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdoom Posted January 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM I bought a handgun (a series 70 from a friend), back in 2010, I had not turned 21, and all we did was exchange cash, drafted a bill of sale, which both of us kept, that had the make, type, s/n, just basic stuff to cover our bases. You can't buy a handgun from a dealer, period, if you are NOT at least 21; you CAN buy a handgun, from a private person, in a private sale, if you are under that age. I've done that before, and I've yet to have the ATF SWAT team, come in, religious police style, and start whipping me for doing that. When I was 19, I almost purchased a Daewoo 9mm, from my firearms instructor, but my parents were not cool with handguns in the house, so I had to pass it up. It's NOT about being a test case, it's about following the law. I say, if they have a FOID, cash, and wait the 72 hours, why not? It disheartens me that, people don't contact the ATF field office, and ask about these things (for as much as I dislike them, they do have some handy people that are willing to help answer questions on basic stuff like this). If you're really paranoid, google a gun lawyer, and use the free consultation most of them give out. There is no such thing as a safe answer, when you live in a rabid gun hating state, like ours. Keep records of the sale, age, and a copy of the ATF's FAQ, you will be ok, if cops really want to make an issue over a private sale, of your private property, you should sue them to the bone, and retire early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted January 22, 2015 at 02:30 AM Share Posted January 22, 2015 at 02:30 AM Face to face non-FFL sales of handguns to one 18 years old or older is legal. If you have an FFL than you can not sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age. I feel the answer should be obvious to me, but am struggling to see it. Clearly federal law prohibits FFL sales of handguns to unlicensed persons under the age of 21. Federal law does not prohibit unlicensed persons from selling a handgun to another unlicensed person between the ages of 18 and 21. The IL ISP FOID FAQs state that in Illinois, the minimum age to purchase a handgun is 21., but doesn't cite a reference. The FAQ doesn't distinguish between FFL-to unlicensed person sales and unlicensed-to-unlicensed person sales. Is the OP's question clearly answered in Illinois statute? I've looked but can't find a restriction against unlicensed sales to someone under 21. ISP FAQ is not law, legally binding, or legal advice. Then again, neither are my posts What? You mean it's not the law that I have to transport my guns unloaded and broken down and in a locked case and make sure it's out of reach of the driver? Or that is has to be a case meeting a certain description that only applies when I'm afield taking game lawfully or unlawfully? Next thing you'll tell me that puking on myself isn't an effective self defense technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted January 22, 2015 at 04:05 AM Share Posted January 22, 2015 at 04:05 AM Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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