Chicago Trib Opinion: Libertarians don't deserve your vote

[InterestedBystander]

Since voting libertarian has been discussed here a bit, thought there might be some interest in this article:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-kristen-mcqueary-illinois-governor-race-liberti-20141029-story.html

 

"I am wincing as I type this: Don't vote for the Libertarian slate Tuesday — but not because the governor candidate, Chad Grimm, would pull votes from Republican Bruce Rauner.

In fact, vote for Democrat Pat Quinn if you're wavering. Quinn or Rauner would be a better choice to lead Illinois for the next four years.

Why? The Libertarian Party of Illinois hasn't earned your vote this year. If the party wants to be taken seriously, it needs to recruit and showcase candidates who know a little about state government, who are knowledgeable about the duties of the office for which they're running, and who can get beyond meandering talking points on tax, health care and education policy. I'll asterisk the comptroller candidate, Julie Fox, who is an accountant and gave some impressive answers last month on reinventing the mission of the office.

 

I can't say that for Grimm, attorney general candidate Ben Koyl or secretary of state candidate Christopher Michel, who all came to the Tribune for interviews. Their grasp of issues was woefully inadequate. Within the first 10 minutes, I set aside questions I had prepared because I didn't want to make them uncomfortable. Other than legalizing recreational use of marijuana (one of them referred to it as smoking flowers) and retaliating against the State Board of Elections, they offered few specifics on why they were running or what they would do if elected."...

 

Rest of story at link

[TyGuy]

Another Libertarian thread? Is there something in the water today?

 

 

 

 

* always right *

[Klaxongreg]

This state would be in a worse mess if libertarians got a hold of the reigns for even a month.

 

No worries here boss. A Kaleidoscope of "Rs" is all this hand will allow.

[kevinmcc]

 

Quinn or Rauner would be a better choice to lead Illinois for the next four years.

 

Suggesting voting for Quinn makes article lose all integrity.

[dorvinion]

This state would be in a worse mess if libertarians got a hold of the reigns for even a month.

 

No worries here boss. A Kaleidoscope of "Rs" is all this hand will allow.

 

Gary Johnson (elected as an R, but is basically a Libertarian) vetoed over 700 bills during his 8 years as governor of New Mexico.

Only two vetoes were overridden.

 

New Mexico did not explode.

[TyGuy]

^ lulz

 

 

* always right *

[Klaxongreg]

Johnson and Grimm are different people. Illinois is not New Mexico.

The corruption in Illinois is so deepseated as to be nearly institutionized such that we're a laughing stalk. Business doesn't even consider moving and/or re-locating here anymore. People are fleeing for neighboring states.

It's not time to experiment with luke warm, limited issue politics with Gotham sized issues breaking over the bow. Just my opinion.

 

In New Mexico, I might vote Libertarian too as a fun thought experiment.

[WtJen]

Rauner, if elected, will try to approach Illinois problems with a businessman's point of view. Knowing we have huge deficits, he knows he can't raise taxes. That just makes the issue worse as businesses and people flee the state. It may sound counter-intuitive, but lowering the corporate and personal tax rate will actually increase the funds available to the state to pay their pension and education obligations.

 

I also suspect Rauner will try to get rid of a lot of those feel-good programs that cost the state a lot but actually achieve little to improve the lives of your average Illinoisan.

[chislinger]

Rauner, if elected, will try to approach Illinois problems with a businessman's point of view. Knowing we have huge deficits, he knows he can't raise taxes. That just makes the issue worse as businesses and people flee the state. It may sound counter-intuitive, but lowering the corporate and personal tax rate will actually increase the funds available to the state to pay their pension and education obligations.

 

I also suspect Rauner will try to get rid of a lot of those feel-good programs that cost the state a lot but actually achieve little to improve the lives of your average Illinoisan.

It's not just the taxes, it's the byzantine regulations by multiple redundant layers of government that keeps businesses away. Taxes are at least a known quantity, the regulations are impossible to know. Businesses want to know they'll get result D if they do A, B, and C. But in this state some other bureaucratic agency with overlapping jurisdiction will then get involved and say no, wait, we want you to do E, F, and G first. Then yet another agency will chime in, and round and round and round you go. Of course, this situation is intentional because it opens up opportunities for corruption. Hire some relative or crony of a politician as a "consultant" or even full time and magically all the red tape can be eliminated. Bill Daley makes millions like this.

[RECarry]

^^^ this. And the uninformed voters who are not running businesses never see this. It's packaged and sold as "rich white guys refuse to pay a living wage".

[mostholycerebus]

The entire article hinges on one assumption, that professional politicians can do a better job than any other intelligent citizen. This is an assumption that has proven to be incorrect many times.

 

But yes, the nature of the Libertarian philosophy is one that abhors career politicians. This is why whenever they do get something like a movement started, it eventually gets warped and taken over, like the Tea Party.

[s0beit]

To be honest, the lack of understanding about what the libertarian party is or what it does, combined with flimsy arguments like 'no experience' really make me want to drop my vote for Rauner more than they make me want to vote libertarian, though it is my preference.

 

I mean you guys are really inhaling that kool-aid. It is slightly embarrassing by proxy to read half the FUD being spouted about libertarians in general on this forum every time I login. I don't know how you guys can stand typing it up.

[RECarry]

If WE are off base, isn't that proof positive that Illinois libertarians need to do a much better job getting their message out and improving awareness of what they stand for?

 

I'm staying with FAIL for Grimm's "campaign" if in fact he was a serious candidate and not there just to help Quinn. The third party has had two years since the last election to produce a compelling potential winner and squandered the time. A credible candidate and message would have gained more grassroots support than it has.

 

How can you stand to stand being laughed at by the Quinncumbents as you throw your vote away?

[HeavyDuty]

To be honest, the lack of understanding about what the libertarian party is or what it does, combined with flimsy arguments like 'no experience' really make me want to drop my vote for Rauner more than they make me want to vote libertarian, though it is my preference. I mean you guys are really inhaling that kool-aid. It is slightly embarrassing by proxy to read half the FUD being spouted about libertarians in general on this forum every time I login. I don't know how you guys can stand typing it up.

 

What difference does it make whether Libertarians are good or bad when at this time they are completely unelectable to statewide office?

 

The party needs to do their groundwork - get people elected to local and county offices and build their base. All they are doing here is taking votes away from the electable candidates, mostly the Republicans - and in this tight race they could well be the deciding factor.

 

Doesn't anybody realize that the D's strategy of knocking the Greens off the ballot but preserving the Libertarians was masterful?

[mostholycerebus]

If WE are off base, isn't that proof positive that Illinois libertarians need to do a much better job getting their message out and improving awareness of what they stand for?

 

No. Go away and leave us alone.

[BobPistol]

Other than legalizing recreational use of marijuana (one of them referred to it as smoking flowers) and retaliating against the State Board of Elections, they offered few specifics on why they were running or what they would do if elected."...

 

Legalizing MJ platform (along with the pro-abort platform) is evidence of the Leftocrat party's fingerprints all over the L party. There are other fingerprints too, like the "gay marriage" one as well.

 

It truly is a satellite party of the leftocrats.

[RECarry]

"Go away and leave us alone"? No problem, mostholycerebus.

 

But you missed the part where I would be supporting an Illinois libertarian effort if there was long-running momentum and solid candidates. In fact I support some of them in other states.

[kevinmcc]

 

Other than legalizing recreational use of marijuana (one of them referred to it as smoking flowers) and retaliating against the State Board of Elections, they offered few specifics on why they were running or what they would do if elected."...

 

Legalizing MJ platform (along with the pro-abort platform) is evidence of the Leftocrat party's fingerprints all over the L party. There are other fingerprints too, like the "gay marriage" one as well.

 

It truly is a satellite party of the leftocrats.

 

 

Seriously?

 

What is wrong with MJ?

 

What is wrong with gay marriage? BTW you do not even know the Libertarian Party stance on marriage, obviously....

 

Shouldn't you be able to do as you please as long as you are not harming another person?

[McCroskey]

 

Shouldn't you be able to do as you please as long as you are not harming another person?

 

 

I'd say so. The main difference I see with the Libocrats and Neocon Republicans is what they want to deficit spend on (entitlements and corporate welfare vs military and corporate welfare) and what parts of people's private lives they want to meddle in (guns and private property vs who people marry and what they do in their own home). I want less government and less government meddling in the private lives of citizens, but at least on the national level, the Republicans don't deliver that. We have a government dominated by two parties who are both sellouts to big banks, oil cartels, etc. Look at their lists of corporate donors, it's all the same companies. The two party system is a joke.

[BobPistol]

Seriously?

 

What is wrong with MJ?

 

What is wrong with gay marriage? BTW you do not even know the Libertarian Party stance on marriage, obviously....

 

Shouldn't you be able to do as you please as long as you are not harming another person?

 

 

MJ: Addiction is slavery. Sure, support something that turns off people's brains, we need more people not thinking anymore. It is just part of the larger pattern of turning off people's brains.

 

"Gay marriage" is being used to deny other people their rights. People are punished for having the "wrong opinion" and their first amendment rights are gone. The gay agenda goalposts are: 1st amendment dead. It happened in every country where this was legalized. It was never about "marriage equality" it was about shutting down someone else's opinions.

 

"Shouldn't you be able to do as you please as long as you are not harming another person?" Abortion killed 55 million people. I wonder what difference that makes to tax revenues, social security, medicare, pensions....oh, nothing at all. No harm at all

 

Take a look at all three of these issues, they have Marxist fingerprints all over it. And the Liberal-tarian party is for all three.

[dorvinion]

As a Marxist feels the will of the individual is subordinate to the will of society (in practice this of course means the Government/Party), Marxist is about as far as you can possibly get from Libertarian.

[kevinmcc]

 

Seriously?

 

What is wrong with MJ?

 

What is wrong with gay marriage? BTW you do not even know the Libertarian Party stance on marriage, obviously....

 

Shouldn't you be able to do as you please as long as you are not harming another person?

 

 

MJ: Addiction is slavery. Sure, support something that turns off people's brains, we need more people not thinking anymore. It is just part of the larger pattern of turning off people's brains.

 

"Gay marriage" is being used to deny other people their rights. People are punished for having the "wrong opinion" and their first amendment rights are gone. The gay agenda goalposts are: 1st amendment dead. It happened in every country where this was legalized. It was never about "marriage equality" it was about shutting down someone else's opinions.

 

"Shouldn't you be able to do as you please as long as you are not harming another person?" Abortion killed 55 million people. I wonder what difference that makes to tax revenues, social security, medicare, pensions....oh, nothing at all. No harm at all

 

Take a look at all three of these issues, they have Marxist fingerprints all over it. And the Liberal-tarian party is for all three.

 

 

Refer Madness, bunk science, and stereotypes is all you are quoring. Marijuana is less addictive and less harmful than alcohol, and has been used for thousands of years for healing. Only in the US for the last 80 years has the drug been stigmatized out of racism, ignorance, and greed.

 

Marriage is something that belongs in the churches, not government. I 100% support civil unions, no religious acknowledgement by government, just a contact amongst two people.

 

By the way Libertarian party does not have a stance on abortion, because members have mixed view points. The two veiws are perservation of life as a right of the unborn and right of a woman to choose.

 

So you show your ignorance about the Libertarian party, the party the Republican party once was, and the party you would see many of the founding fathers proudly joining.