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Not All Instructors Revoked for Wrong Doing


Molly B.

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Why would they be revoked if not for wrong doing?

The first instructor to be revoked was revoked for mental health issues.

 

 

Anyone else notice, TEST TEST? LOL

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some reasons just off the top of my head that might result in an instructor being placed on the revoked list.

 

moved out of state, no longer meets qualifications (nra instructor cert pulled), no longer associated with training site, decided that they don't want to put up with the hassle and called the state to be removed. No wrong doing here if the instructor doesn't continue to teach. A vital piece of info missing here is the effective date of the instructor's cert and the effective date of the revocation.

 

A couple of years back, I accidentally threw my FOID out with some old hunting/fishing permits. I reported it lost, once i figured out that it was missing, and it was revoked until i applied for a new one. No wrongdoing, but my FOID was revoked none the less.

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Why would they be revoked if not for wrong doing?

The first instructor to be revoked was revoked for mental health issues.

 

 

Anyone else notice, TEST TEST? LOL

 

Last track I had he was fighting it. I hope it is going well. Should of never happened from the description that was given.

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Why would they be revoked if not for wrong doing?

The first instructor to be revoked was revoked for mental health issues.

 

 

Anyone else notice, TEST TEST? LOL

 

Last track I had he was fighting it. I hope it is going well. Should of never happened from the description that was given.

 

Yup he still posts on occasion. Hinted in Todd's thread that he and Todd have some breath taking news that will make Todd's sun times article fade from all thought and we'll all worry about his problems.

 

I agree though, from HIS description of the issue it should not have happened, and if the NRA is backing him as he said they are, I am willing to bet there is merit to his claim.

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some reasons just off the top of my head that might result in an instructor being placed on the revoked list.

 

moved out of state, no longer meets qualifications (nra instructor cert pulled), no longer associated with training site, decided that they don't want to put up with the hassle and called the state to be removed. No wrong doing here if the instructor doesn't continue to teach. A vital piece of info missing here is the effective date of the instructor's cert and the effective date of the revocation.

 

A couple of years back, I accidentally threw my FOID out with some old hunting/fishing permits. I reported it lost, once i figured out that it was missing, and it was revoked until i applied for a new one. No wrongdoing, but my FOID was revoked none the less.

 

 

YES!! There are lots of reasons for being removed from the list. Not all removals from the list are because of wrong doing.

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Rather than speculate let's address this head on. On Sept. 19 last year I was taken by ambulance to the hospital. I spent nine days on a ventilator with respiratory failure, renal failure, bacterial pneumonia, and sepsis. There was a significant amount of that time where the doctors were not sure if I was going to live. Due to a combination of the effects of the illness and the meds being used to treat the illness there was a level of delirium such that at the conclusion I was transferred from ICU to a psych ward for ONE DAY of observation. After that one day, I was released and sent home. The ONE DAY in psych was sufficient to generate a referral to DHS which got referred to ISP and boom five days later my FOID was revoked. Two days after that ATF showed up at my office and requested that I surrender my FFL. Two days after that I received a letter which revoked my Illinois CCL Instructor creds. The revocation of Instructor creds being automatic after a FOID revocation. Thereafter, I had the pleasure of a visit from a dozen of Tom Dart's deputies in full battle gear to make sure that I had transferred custody of all of my firearms which has been done.

 

I immediately filed an appeal of the FOID revocation which included having to go through the process of obtaining a forensic examination from a psychiatrist. The forensic evaluation cost me $12K out of pocket..and it came back absolutely clean [i don't need to get into specifics, but suffice it to say that it says everything is fine]. The appeal was filed six months ago. When the original revocation was issued, I reached out to my TC [you know him as Rockdiver], Todd V., ISRA and others that I know within NRA to try and deal with this.

 

The process is dragging along slowly....there are attorneys involved, financial support has been provided by NRA and ISRA [and I am very greatful to both organizations for their support.] At this point, there is no clear answer from ISP with regard to how long it takes to process a FOID appeal, nor any published guidelines with respect to what the FOID appeal procedures are. So....at this point, there is an on-going discussion with regard to litigation options and waiting for the ISP process to work its way along. I am not going to elaborate further so as not to compromise options with respect to the litigation, etc.

 

I am confident that in the end, I will prevail, the FOID will be restored, and the FFL and the FCCL Instructor creds will follow. My view is ISP was completely lacking in responsibility and judgment yesterday to include me on a list of instructors that have been revoked for "training failures".....and the prosecution of an action for libel and slander is certainly within the realm of possibility. I have been in touch with Todd V, and despite the "**** storm" he is dealing with personally, he has made an effort to to intercede with ISP. There is an entire group of people that are familiar with this situation and have been from the start, and that includes having seen the underlying letters from the agencies and the psych report....this isn't "my version" of the story...there aren't any surprises here.

 

There are a couple of clear points that ought be drawn from this nightmare:

 

  • The "mental health" provision in the FOID law, particularly for voluntary admit provision. It could easily HAPPEN TO ANY ONE OF US WITHOUT WARNING, and in the case of a medical emergency there is nothing you can do to prevent falling into the trap.
  • The application of the provision is automatic, and it appears that ISP doesn't give any consideration to other certification or vetting that has been done....keep in mind I am a multi-discipline NRA Firearms Instructor, had been certified for Illinois and Utah CCL instructor, and held a regular Type 01 FFL having been fully vetted by ATF.
  • The forensic psych exam that I was required to submit as part of the appeal cost me $12K....how many of you have that kind of $$ available if you were to have to file an appeal.

Unfortunately, this matter isn't over, though there seems to be a logical path. The actions of ISP to further exacerbate the situation by adding me to a list of revoked instructors for contracting a nearly fatal illness is disgraceful and disgusting. I will certainly get through this mess. However, let this serve as a very clear reminder to everyone of us with regard to what we are dealing with.

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Elmer, sounds like things are going in your favor, which is very good news. The only thing that I can say at this point is "Welcome back buddy". Now go after that stupid hospital that started this whole mess. Then throw in a few extra million for good measure.

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Randy ...thanks for the thought.....at this juncture.."going after the hospital" isn't really on the list. My priorities are getting ALL of my creds back and doing what I can to make sure that no one else falls into this trap. My real concern is for the people that may fall into the same situation that don't have the resources to take on the fight.

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Do you have a legal fund accepting donations? A few of us may have some shillings set aside for such occasions.

The thought is appreciated....as of this point in time.....NRA and ISRA have been generous and my pocket is doing ok. What would be helpful is getting the word out that NOT everyone on ISP's list was on ISP's scumbag trainer list.

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Do you have a legal fund accepting donations? A few of us may have some shillings set aside for such occasions.

 

The thought is appreciated....as of this point in time.....NRA and ISRA have been generous and my pocket is doing ok. What would be helpful is getting the word out that NOT everyone on ISP's list was on ISP's scumbag trainer list.

I'll send more to NRA this month then.
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Why would they be revoked if not for wrong doing?

 

Lots of reasons as mentioned, I know that 'domestic' issues have caused a lot of problems for gun owners everywhere, a mere verbal argument with a family member will now get your FOID revoked and thus your instructor status as well... So will an emergency restraining order and although many are fully legit, it's not unheard of for disgruntled partners to make up stories to enact revenge... Or there could be totally frivolous and false charges leveled against someone that causes their FOID to be revoked, as happened to me personally...

 

Fact is things happen in life...

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Why would they be revoked if not for wrong doing?

 

Lots of reasons as mentioned, I know that 'domestic' issues have caused a lot of problems for gun owners everywhere, a mere verbal argument with a family member will now get your FOID revoked and thus your instructor status as well... So will an emergency restraining order and although many are fully legit, it's not unheard of for disgruntled partners to make up stories to enact revenge... Or there could be totally frivolous and false charges leveled against someone that causes their FOID to be revoked, as happened to me personally...

 

Fact is things happen in life...

 

Let's be clear....how about a trip to ICU...with an FFL as well....its all in the mix with no procedures published for a safe harbor.think YETS..You're Eligible Too Stupid

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Rather than speculate let's address this head on. On Sept. 19 last year I was taken by ambulance to the hospital. I spent nine days on a ventilator with respiratory failure, renal failure, bacterial pneumonia, and sepsis. There was a significant amount of that time where the doctors were not sure if I was going to live. Due to a combination of the effects of the illness and the meds being used to treat the illness there was a level of delirium such that at the conclusion I was transferred from ICU to a psych ward for ONE DAY of observation. After that one day, I was released and sent home. The ONE DAY in psych was sufficient to generate a referral to DHS which got referred to ISP and boom five days later my FOID was revoked. Two days after that ATF showed up at my office and requested that I surrender my FFL. Two days after that I received a letter which revoked my Illinois CCL Instructor creds. The revocation of Instructor creds being automatic after a FOID revocation. Thereafter, I had the pleasure of a visit from a dozen of Tom Dart's deputies in full battle gear to make sure that I had transferred custody of all of my firearms which has been done.

 

I immediately filed an appeal of the FOID revocation which included having to go through the process of obtaining a forensic examination from a psychiatrist. The forensic evaluation cost me $12K out of pocket..and it came back absolutely clean [i don't need to get into specifics, but suffice it to say that it says everything is fine]. The appeal was filed six months ago. When the original revocation was issued, I reached out to my TC [you know him as Rockdiver], Todd V., ISRA and others that I know within NRA to try and deal with this.

 

The process is dragging along slowly....there are attorneys involved, financial support has been provided by NRA and ISRA [and I am very greatful to both organizations for their support.] At this point, there is no clear answer from ISP with regard to how long it takes to process a FOID appeal, nor any published guidelines with respect to what the FOID appeal procedures are. So....at this point, there is an on-going discussion with regard to litigation options and waiting for the ISP process to work its way along. I am not going to elaborate further so as not to compromise options with respect to the litigation, etc.

 

I am confident that in the end, I will prevail, the FOID will be restored, and the FFL and the FCCL Instructor creds will follow. My view is ISP was completely lacking in responsibility and judgment yesterday to include me on a list of instructors that have been revoked for "training failures".....and the prosecution of an action for libel and slander is certainly within the realm of possibility. I have been in touch with Todd V, and despite the "**** storm" he is dealing with personally, he has made an effort to to intercede with ISP. There is an entire group of people that are familiar with this situation and have been from the start, and that includes having seen the underlying letters from the agencies and the psych report....this isn't "my version" of the story...there aren't any surprises here.

 

There are a couple of clear points that ought be drawn from this nightmare:

 

  • The "mental health" provision in the FOID law, particularly for voluntary admit provision. It could easily HAPPEN TO ANY ONE OF US WITHOUT WARNING, and in the case of a medical emergency there is nothing you can do to prevent falling into the trap.
  • The application of the provision is automatic, and it appears that ISP doesn't give any consideration to other certification or vetting that has been done....keep in mind I am a multi-discipline NRA Firearms Instructor, had been certified for Illinois and Utah CCL instructor, and held a regular Type 01 FFL having been fully vetted by ATF.
  • The forensic psych exam that I was required to submit as part of the appeal cost me $12K....how many of you have that kind of $$ available if you were to have to file an appeal.

Unfortunately, this matter isn't over, though there seems to be a logical path. The actions of ISP to further exacerbate the situation by adding me to a list of revoked instructors for contracting a nearly fatal illness is disgraceful and disgusting. I will certainly get through this mess. However, let this serve as a very clear reminder to everyone of us with regard to what we are dealing with.

 

Wow, hope you can get it all sorted soon! Looks to me like your case should be used by one of our Pro 2A friends in the Legislature to introduce legislation to fix this process, making it less punitive for someone who does nothing more than fall ill.

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Rather than speculate let's address this head on. On Sept. 19 last year I was taken by ambulance to the hospital. I spent nine days on a ventilator with respiratory failure, renal failure, bacterial pneumonia, and sepsis. There was a significant amount of that time where the doctors were not sure if I was going to live. Due to a combination of the effects of the illness and the meds being used to treat the illness there was a level of delirium such that at the conclusion I was transferred from ICU to a psych ward for ONE DAY of observation. After that one day, I was released and sent home. The ONE DAY in psych was sufficient to generate a referral to DHS which got referred to ISP and boom five days later my FOID was revoked. Two days after that ATF showed up at my office and requested that I surrender my FFL. Two days after that I received a letter which revoked my Illinois CCL Instructor creds. The revocation of Instructor creds being automatic after a FOID revocation. Thereafter, I had the pleasure of a visit from a dozen of Tom Dart's deputies in full battle gear to make sure that I had transferred custody of all of my firearms which has been done.

 

I immediately filed an appeal of the FOID revocation which included having to go through the process of obtaining a forensic examination from a psychiatrist. The forensic evaluation cost me $12K out of pocket..and it came back absolutely clean [i don't need to get into specifics, but suffice it to say that it says everything is fine]. The appeal was filed six months ago. When the original revocation was issued, I reached out to my TC [you know him as Rockdiver], Todd V., ISRA and others that I know within NRA to try and deal with this.

 

The process is dragging along slowly....there are attorneys involved, financial support has been provided by NRA and ISRA [and I am very greatful to both organizations for their support.] At this point, there is no clear answer from ISP with regard to how long it takes to process a FOID appeal, nor any published guidelines with respect to what the FOID appeal procedures are. So....at this point, there is an on-going discussion with regard to litigation options and waiting for the ISP process to work its way along. I am not going to elaborate further so as not to compromise options with respect to the litigation, etc.

 

I am confident that in the end, I will prevail, the FOID will be restored, and the FFL and the FCCL Instructor creds will follow. My view is ISP was completely lacking in responsibility and judgment yesterday to include me on a list of instructors that have been revoked for "training failures".....and the prosecution of an action for libel and slander is certainly within the realm of possibility. I have been in touch with Todd V, and despite the "**** storm" he is dealing with personally, he has made an effort to to intercede with ISP. There is an entire group of people that are familiar with this situation and have been from the start, and that includes having seen the underlying letters from the agencies and the psych report....this isn't "my version" of the story...there aren't any surprises here.

 

There are a couple of clear points that ought be drawn from this nightmare:

 

  • The "mental health" provision in the FOID law, particularly for voluntary admit provision. It could easily HAPPEN TO ANY ONE OF US WITHOUT WARNING, and in the case of a medical emergency there is nothing you can do to prevent falling into the trap.
  • The application of the provision is automatic, and it appears that ISP doesn't give any consideration to other certification or vetting that has been done....keep in mind I am a multi-discipline NRA Firearms Instructor, had been certified for Illinois and Utah CCL instructor, and held a regular Type 01 FFL having been fully vetted by ATF.
  • The forensic psych exam that I was required to submit as part of the appeal cost me $12K....how many of you have that kind of $$ available if you were to have to file an appeal.

Unfortunately, this matter isn't over, though there seems to be a logical path. The actions of ISP to further exacerbate the situation by adding me to a list of revoked instructors for contracting a nearly fatal illness is disgraceful and disgusting. I will certainly get through this mess. However, let this serve as a very clear reminder to everyone of us with regard to what we are dealing with.

 

Wow, hope you can get it all sorted soon! Looks to me like your case should be used by one of our Pro 2A friends in the Legislature to introduce legislation to fix this process, making it less punitive for someone who does nothing more than fall ill.

 

I am not merely looking to change the law..I am going to watch the ground behind it BURN....anyone reading this could be NEXT.

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Rather than speculate let's address this head on. On Sept. 19 last year I was taken by ambulance to the hospital. I spent nine days on a ventilator with respiratory failure, renal failure, bacterial pneumonia, and sepsis. There was a significant amount of that time where the doctors were not sure if I was going to live. Due to a combination of the effects of the illness and the meds being used to treat the illness there was a level of delirium such that at the conclusion I was transferred from ICU to a psych ward for ONE DAY of observation. After that one day, I was released and sent home. The ONE DAY in psych was sufficient to generate a referral to DHS which got referred to ISP and boom five days later my FOID was revoked. Two days after that ATF showed up at my office and requested that I surrender my FFL. Two days after that I received a letter which revoked my Illinois CCL Instructor creds. The revocation of Instructor creds being automatic after a FOID revocation. Thereafter, I had the pleasure of a visit from a dozen of Tom Dart's deputies in full battle gear to make sure that I had transferred custody of all of my firearms which has been done.

 

I immediately filed an appeal of the FOID revocation which included having to go through the process of obtaining a forensic examination from a psychiatrist. The forensic evaluation cost me $12K out of pocket..and it came back absolutely clean [i don't need to get into specifics, but suffice it to say that it says everything is fine]. The appeal was filed six months ago. When the original revocation was issued, I reached out to my TC [you know him as Rockdiver], Todd V., ISRA and others that I know within NRA to try and deal with this.

 

The process is dragging along slowly....there are attorneys involved, financial support has been provided by NRA and ISRA [and I am very greatful to both organizations for their support.] At this point, there is no clear answer from ISP with regard to how long it takes to process a FOID appeal, nor any published guidelines with respect to what the FOID appeal procedures are. So....at this point, there is an on-going discussion with regard to litigation options and waiting for the ISP process to work its way along. I am not going to elaborate further so as not to compromise options with respect to the litigation, etc.

 

I am confident that in the end, I will prevail, the FOID will be restored, and the FFL and the FCCL Instructor creds will follow. My view is ISP was completely lacking in responsibility and judgment yesterday to include me on a list of instructors that have been revoked for "training failures".....and the prosecution of an action for libel and slander is certainly within the realm of possibility. I have been in touch with Todd V, and despite the "**** storm" he is dealing with personally, he has made an effort to to intercede with ISP. There is an entire group of people that are familiar with this situation and have been from the start, and that includes having seen the underlying letters from the agencies and the psych report....this isn't "my version" of the story...there aren't any surprises here.

 

There are a couple of clear points that ought be drawn from this nightmare:

 

  • The "mental health" provision in the FOID law, particularly for voluntary admit provision. It could easily HAPPEN TO ANY ONE OF US WITHOUT WARNING, and in the case of a medical emergency there is nothing you can do to prevent falling into the trap.
  • The application of the provision is automatic, and it appears that ISP doesn't give any consideration to other certification or vetting that has been done....keep in mind I am a multi-discipline NRA Firearms Instructor, had been certified for Illinois and Utah CCL instructor, and held a regular Type 01 FFL having been fully vetted by ATF.
  • The forensic psych exam that I was required to submit as part of the appeal cost me $12K....how many of you have that kind of $$ available if you were to have to file an appeal.

Unfortunately, this matter isn't over, though there seems to be a logical path. The actions of ISP to further exacerbate the situation by adding me to a list of revoked instructors for contracting a nearly fatal illness is disgraceful and disgusting. I will certainly get through this mess. However, let this serve as a very clear reminder to everyone of us with regard to what we are dealing with.

 

Wow, hope you can get it all sorted soon! Looks to me like your case should be used by one of our Pro 2A friends in the Legislature to introduce legislation to fix this process, making it less punitive for someone who does nothing more than fall ill.

 

I am not merely looking to change the law..I am going to watch the ground behind it BURN....anyone reading this could be NEXT.

 

 

Well, if you need any gasoline or matches, let me know!

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The thought is MUCH appreciated...both aren't needed...the comment is figurative however...the hope is that each and every CCL permit Instructor...let alone permit holder will realize that they are just at much at risk and commit to assisting in this fight....at the moment it is personal and all falls on me....no worries I won't falter but it's a greater fight

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Elmer, I'm sorry this has happened to you. I think this is one of the worst showings of a lack of due process. Any doc (or school guidance counselor) can submit a document stating that you MAY be a danger and the ISP takes it to the bank. Then trying to get them to reverse is nearly impossible. I can understand when you read in the news that a crazy person was able to buy a gun and kill multiple people before they could be stopped. But not actually looking into the reasons of why the document was submitted and what it really means is more harmful than helpful.

 

I really hope this gets straightened out for you soon. I hope the outcome not only fixes the situation so it doesn't happen again, but starts breaking down the barriers to get rid of FOID. If if weren't for the revocation of the FOID, you would still have an FFL, and you would just appeal the CCL with your (extremely expensive) documentation. That stupid FOID card is what is really hampering this process.

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Elmer, I'm sorry this has happened to you. I think this is one of the worst showings of a lack of due process. Any doc (or school guidance counselor) can submit a document stating that you MAY be a danger and the ISP takes it to the bank. Then trying to get them to reverse is nearly impossible. I can understand when you read in the news that a crazy person was able to buy a gun and kill multiple people before they could be stopped. But not actually looking into the reasons of why the document was submitted and what it really means is more harmful than helpful.

 

I really hope this gets straightened out for you soon. I hope the outcome not only fixes the situation so it doesn't happen again, but starts breaking down the barriers to get rid of FOID. If if weren't for the revocation of the FOID, you would still have an FFL, and you would just appeal the CCL with your (extremely expensive) documentation. That stupid FOID card is what is really hampering this process.

Respectfully...lets STIPULATE to the accuracy of the background facts as I described...I had a direct referral from Northshore University Hospital Evanston ICU to the Psych Unit...the ISP referral is AUTOMATIC...and couldn't be avoided...in fact it was VOLUNTARY for any number of good, but not necessarily valid reasons. My story isn't about any doc or school guidance counselor its from a Board certified shrink THAT GOT IT WRONG...and he was documented as WRONG in a 35 page report that cost me $12K and months to get produced.....I don't have an issue with the requirement...it demonstrates that there is a safeguard and I met ISP's requirement.

 

You are completely wrong with respect to the appeal process. The voluntary psych admit poisoned the well...for FOID purposes....that automatically revokes the FCCL credentials.....it has NOTHING to do with the FFL. The FFL is governed by ATF and Federal guidelines...and a voluntary admit does NOT make you a "prohibited person" for Federal purposes. The notification from ISP cause ATF to make a field visit and "strongly urge" that I surrender my FFL's until the ISP FOID issue was resolved. I consented to that surrender voluntarily. At this juncture, there is no reason or need for a distinct appeal of the FCCL Instructor Credential revocation...the assumption being given that my NRA Instructor Certification remains valid and once the FOID is reinstated, the FCCL Instructor Credential ought follow. Given that the revocation took place prior to the time when it was possible to file for a CCL permit, once the FOID is reinstated, I will immediately file a CCL application which ought be approved quickly given that I already have fingerprints filed and was approved through the other vetting process. My situation has absolutely nothing to do with reading the news, crazy people, or wondering why. Its simply about an existing FOID holding NRA Instructor with FCCL Certification and an FFL being subjected to a voluntary psych admit after ten days in medical ICU..please don't smirk any one of us could be NEXT.

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Hope this BS blows over sooner than later for you Jordan.

My friend...I don't expect it to "blow over"....the unfortunate reality is that it is going to be an uphill fight the entire way. Despite my background and history, ISP couldn't give a "rat's a** damn" above doing the right thing. I get it..and am both expecting and prepared for a feet to the fire one step at a time battle....not that they will ever accept the document that they, themselves have asked for. My expectation is that it will go a couple of levels in court, and I am prepared to take the fight to them. The unfortunate reality is what happens to everyone else that doesn't have the financial resources and education that 30+ years of litigation with IRS has prepared me to deal with this. I will prevail...its about laying down a path for everyone else as well.

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Elmer, I'm sorry this has happened to you. I think this is one of the worst showings of a lack of due process. Any doc (or school guidance counselor) can submit a document stating that you MAY be a danger and the ISP takes it to the bank. Then trying to get them to reverse is nearly impossible. I can understand when you read in the news that a crazy person was able to buy a gun and kill multiple people before they could be stopped. But not actually looking into the reasons of why the document was submitted and what it really means is more harmful than helpful.

 

I really hope this gets straightened out for you soon. I hope the outcome not only fixes the situation so it doesn't happen again, but starts breaking down the barriers to get rid of FOID. If if weren't for the revocation of the FOID, you would still have an FFL, and you would just appeal the CCL with your (extremely expensive) documentation. That stupid FOID card is what is really hampering this process.

Respectfully...lets STIPULATE to the accuracy of the background facts as I described...I had a direct referral from Northshore University Hospital Evanston ICU to the Psych Unit...the ISP referral is AUTOMATIC...and couldn't be avoided...in fact it was VOLUNTARY for any number of good, but not necessarily valid reasons. My story isn't about any doc or school guidance counselor its from a Board certified shrink THAT GOT IT WRONG...and he was documented as WRONG in a 35 page report that cost me $12K and months to get produced.....I don't have an issue with the requirement...it demonstrates that there is a safeguard and I met ISP's requirement.

 

You are completely wrong with respect to the appeal process. The voluntary psych admit poisoned the well...for FOID purposes....that automatically revokes the FCCL credentials.....it has NOTHING to do with the FFL. The FFL is governed by ATF and Federal guidelines...and a voluntary admit does NOT make you a "prohibited person" for Federal purposes. The notification from ISP cause ATF to make a field visit and "strongly urge" that I surrender my FFL's until the ISP FOID issue was resolved. I consented to that surrender voluntarily. At this juncture, there is no reason or need for a distinct appeal of the FCCL Instructor Credential revocation...the assumption being given that my NRA Instructor Certification remains valid and once the FOID is reinstated, the FCCL Instructor Credential ought follow. Given that the revocation took place prior to the time when it was possible to file for a CCL permit, once the FOID is reinstated, I will immediately file a CCL application which ought be approved quickly given that I already have fingerprints filed and was approved through the other vetting process. My situation has absolutely nothing to do with reading the news, crazy people, or wondering why. Its simply about an existing FOID holding NRA Instructor with FCCL Certification and an FFL being subjected to a voluntary psych admit after ten days in medical ICU..please don't smirk any one of us could be NEXT.

 

I'll send you a PM. I was not being disrespectful or smirking. No need to start a bashing here because you misunderstood what I said. I truely am sorry that this has happened to you. I'm glad that you are fighting it so others don't get stuck going through the same problems as you faced.

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Elmer, I'm sorry this has happened to you. I think this is one of the worst showings of a lack of due process. Any doc (or school guidance counselor) can submit a document stating that you MAY be a danger and the ISP takes it to the bank. Then trying to get them to reverse is nearly impossible. I can understand when you read in the news that a crazy person was able to buy a gun and kill multiple people before they could be stopped. But not actually looking into the reasons of why the document was submitted and what it really means is more harmful than helpful.

 

I really hope this gets straightened out for you soon. I hope the outcome not only fixes the situation so it doesn't happen again, but starts breaking down the barriers to get rid of FOID. If if weren't for the revocation of the FOID, you would still have an FFL, and you would just appeal the CCL with your (extremely expensive) documentation. That stupid FOID card is what is really hampering this process.

Respectfully...lets STIPULATE to the accuracy of the background facts as I described...I had a direct referral from Northshore University Hospital Evanston ICU to the Psych Unit...the ISP referral is AUTOMATIC...and couldn't be avoided...in fact it was VOLUNTARY for any number of good, but not necessarily valid reasons. My story isn't about any doc or school guidance counselor its from a Board certified shrink THAT GOT IT WRONG...and he was documented as WRONG in a 35 page report that cost me $12K and months to get produced.....I don't have an issue with the requirement...it demonstrates that there is a safeguard and I met ISP's requirement.

 

You are completely wrong with respect to the appeal process. The voluntary psych admit poisoned the well...for FOID purposes....that automatically revokes the FCCL credentials.....it has NOTHING to do with the FFL. The FFL is governed by ATF and Federal guidelines...and a voluntary admit does NOT make you a "prohibited person" for Federal purposes. The notification from ISP cause ATF to make a field visit and "strongly urge" that I surrender my FFL's until the ISP FOID issue was resolved. I consented to that surrender voluntarily. At this juncture, there is no reason or need for a distinct appeal of the FCCL Instructor Credential revocation...the assumption being given that my NRA Instructor Certification remains valid and once the FOID is reinstated, the FCCL Instructor Credential ought follow. Given that the revocation took place prior to the time when it was possible to file for a CCL permit, once the FOID is reinstated, I will immediately file a CCL application which ought be approved quickly given that I already have fingerprints filed and was approved through the other vetting process. My situation has absolutely nothing to do with reading the news, crazy people, or wondering why. Its simply about an existing FOID holding NRA Instructor with FCCL Certification and an FFL being subjected to a voluntary psych admit after ten days in medical ICU..please don't smirk any one of us could be NEXT.

 

I'll send you a PM. I was not being disrespectful or smirking. No need to start a bashing here because you misunderstood what I said. I truely am sorry that this has happened to you. I'm glad that you are fighting it so others don't get stuck going through the same problems as you faced.

 

There is no reason to PM....there was NO intention to bash...the reality is very simple....having dealt with controversy for 30+ years in dealing with IRS I have a very precise sense of where I am heading and what the rules are....the sentiment is appreciated....unfortunately due to being in purgatory I am somewhat fixated on the details.

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