TyGuy Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:33 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:33 PM Can we find someone to debate this for us? Maybe Trent Lott? http://gunvictimsaction.org/blog/does-carrying-a-concealed-weapon-really-offer-self-defense-richard-pearson-head-of-illinois-state-rifle-association-refuses-our-50000-challenge-to-find-out/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:35 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:35 PM You can't win with idiots like this. Look at the language in that post. totally irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:37 PM Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:37 PM You can't win with idiots like this. Look at the language in that post. totally irrational.True true. Just annoys me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDEESUL Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:37 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:37 PM I'll try. I'm a masterdebater. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLR Rider Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:39 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:39 PM I'll try. I'm a masterdebater. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Your a WHAT!?!?! oh, wait, I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDEESUL Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:39 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:39 PM I kid. I'm sure Todd would take pleasure in doling out butthurt to them on a massive scale. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:41 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:41 PM I did too and after the picture post yesterday and repeated reminders about our family friendly content, I'm sure that's as far as he will take that comment. Right BD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:50 PM Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:50 PM Seems to me the challenger doesn't understand that statistics aren't disproved by a number of contradictory outcomes. Are you safer wearing a seatbelt? Yes. Are there instances of people dying because they were caught up in a seatbelt during a crash and burned/drown? Yes. Does that mean that you are safer not wearing a seatbelt? Nope. Similarily, You are safer with CCW. Are there instances of CCWers getting bested by criminals? Yes, but that doesn't invalidate the vast wealth of statistics in our favor. Does this guy even math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielm60660 Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:53 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:53 PM They talk about designing an experiment. What a joke. I'm sure they'll design something like that simulated school shooting video where the "bad guy" has all the advantages and the "good guy" is set up to fail. Then they'll say, "See this proves that you can't defend yourself." They want an experiment, I say give them one. Set up a scenario like the school shooting video, but without all the obvious slant to the bad guy winning. Put a couple TRAINED good guys in the crowd and don't let the shooter know who/where they are. Then we'll see who wins....oh, and run a control experiment. Same scenario with NO GOOD GUYS and see how many folks get shot. In order to have honest results, no person can be in any scenario twice. Never saw them try it like that, did we? I'd happily volunteer to be a crash test dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigcelia Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:57 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 03:57 PM these people are not worth our time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elderberry Posted March 20, 2014 at 04:05 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 04:05 PM We're already winning.... Getting tangled up with idiots isn't a good move... On the other hand, for $50,000 I'd consider debating the guy. My second response would be to issue loudly Ron White's famous debate point, collect my money, and go donate it to Appleseed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted March 20, 2014 at 04:15 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 04:15 PM I'll offer a comment when I get home, but underneath that victim mantle is a naive person who truly believes that if we removed guns from society we'd see fewer deaths, and I have to acknowledge that he might be correct, as long as you carefully define and delineate what segment of the population we're discussing. What the total disarmament people fall to include (whether intentionally or out of ignorance) are the new category of victims who, lacking their own lawfully owned firearm, were unable to prevent their own injury or death. That mindset also completely dismisses the absence of affirmative duty on the party of the government, and imparts a degree of cultured sensibility to criminals that assumes that, instead of reverting to less efficient means of committing their crimes like knives or clubs, they will have a mass epiphany about the nature of their own existence and suddenly abandon their lawless ways. As someone who's been responding to 9-1-1 calls for over 20 years and has seen a lot more of man's inhumanity to man than most people should, all I can say is they need to come out of the ivory tower and the rarified air of academia and smell the 'hood before I believe a word of what they're selling. Edit to fix mobile spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk067 Posted March 20, 2014 at 05:05 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 05:05 PM What's to debate man? The article reads like it was written by a 4 year old. He calls Pearson a coward and a bully, all while ranting through an insult laced article which does nothing more than repeat ridiculous rhetoric. I particularly love the piece about the Diane Sawyer garbage "which proved guns don't save lives". lol...you can't make up this kind of stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Posted March 20, 2014 at 05:19 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 05:19 PM "If carrying a gun actually kept someone safe, no police officers would ever be killed." More officers are killed in ambush than in a shootout. Nonetheless, the actual statistics are about 10 to 1 against the bad guys. It is the nature of police work to look for trouble, whereas a responsible armed citizen does everything possible to avoid it. However in a debate of this sort, a single bad example outweighs a hundred good ones. With nearly 16 million citizens legally carrying firearms, the memorable failures are vanishingly few, notably George Zimmerman (justified), Michael Dunn (loud music, not justified) and Curtis Reeves (theater texting, retired cop). Oh the horror! Of course, good examples are hard to come by. Most justifiable shootings occur in home break-ins, almost none on the street. Perhaps one reason is that criminals prey on the weak and unsuspecting, and armed citizens tend to walk with confidence and be aware of their surroundings. Secondly, criminals are wary, and flee at the first sign of armed resistance. It's a good idea to call the police if you have to show a weapon, but few people do. Do you call them if you merely brush your coattail aside and the potential bad guy beats an hasty retreat? Florida instituted concealed carry in the mid 80s, when car jackings were at a peak, especially near airports. Carjacking became a federal crime in 1993. In Florida, 1990, It helped that rental cars are no longer clearly marked as such. As a result, carjackings were cut in half by 2002. Florida also granted the same "castle" status to automobiles as homes in 2005, and the incidence of carjacking outside of metropolitan areas has almost vanished. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Carjackinghttp://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=476 Violent crime rates have dropped about 20% in the last ten years in the US, but 32% in Florida during the same time period. The rate decreased nearly twice as fast (23%) between 2005 and 2010 as between 2000 and 2005 (12%). Coincidence? (http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/23/dennis-baxley/crime-rates-florida-have-dropped-stand-your-ground/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:04 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:04 PM You can't win with idiots like this. Look at the language in that post. totally irrational. it's like teaching a pig to sing, 1. Doesn't work2. Stresses you3. Annoys the pig ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatwood29 Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:07 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:07 PM I left this comment: Sounds to me like you are mad that he won't come and argue with you. What would be the point of this. you are obviously steeped in your feelings about the issue as is the Firearms community. If either side lays out a fact, it will be dismissed as skewed by the other. For Mr. Pearson to accept your invitation would be nothing more than agreeing to an argument. no matter what the outcome, the "losing" side would NEVER admit defeat. I suspect that Mr. Pearson knows this and understands that arguing does no one any good. Therefore he has dismissed it like an adult. Then you turn around and stomp your feet like a.....anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:12 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:12 PM Does carrying a gun in public offer self-defense? If carrying a gun actually kept someone safe, no police officers would ever be killed. :rofl: The logic is weak with this one. If police did not carry guns, more would be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadN. Posted March 20, 2014 at 08:38 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 08:38 PM In a debate, no one wins against idiots who have no common sense; they beat you with experience. Not worth the time at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDEESUL Posted March 20, 2014 at 08:45 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 08:45 PM I did too and after the picture post yesterday and repeated reminders about our family friendly content, I'm sure that's as far as he will take that comment. Right BD? Just meant I've mastered the art of debating. Not sure what you're getting at. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMojo109 Posted March 20, 2014 at 10:39 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 10:39 PM Who ever believes not having a gun makes you safer they should be mandated to live 1 month on the south side of Chicago (like Englewood) and they cannot just huddle in a corner in the house but go out and work and play in the neighborhood. It drives me nuts when people don't understand everyones circumstances are not the same and that is why we have the freedom to choose. What may work for you may not work for the next guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted March 20, 2014 at 10:43 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 10:43 PM I did too and after the picture post yesterday and repeated reminders about our family friendly content, I'm sure that's as far as he will take that comment. Right BD? Just meant I've mastered the art of debating. Not sure what you're getting at. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk you are cracking me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted March 20, 2014 at 10:51 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 10:51 PM “IT’S THE GUNS, STUPID” NGVAC’s bimonthly hour-long radio show originating from Washington D.C. on WPWC 1480 AM.The NRA has a radio show too. Only it's nearly three hours long and it's daily. Wow, an hour long show once every two months on an AM station. That's some heavy exposure...er uh, yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlJ Posted March 20, 2014 at 11:26 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 11:26 PM There are millions of people who own and carry defensive firearms. There are victims who have and use their firearm while being attacked, and still lose their life. It's an unfortunate truth. We will never legislate or regulate evil. There are many cases where a defensive firearm is used with success. There is a vast number of documented cases to support that. The recent off duty sheriff video taped dispatching his attacker at a gas station comes to mind. The fact that this person automatically dismisses these truths is evidence that no one could have a fair debate with the person. His verbal attacks of Pearson and NRA members is true to form, of his kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted March 20, 2014 at 11:42 PM Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 11:42 PM From the PAGunBlog: Elliot Fineman is a senior member of the Brady PAC–Illinois, the group that makes endorsements on behalf of the Brady Campaign in Illinois.Andrew Goddard is the President of the Richmond Chapter of the Million Mom March, a division of the Brady Campaign.Lori O’Neill is the past President & Vice President of the Million Mom March of Cleveland which she calls the “grassroots arm of the Brady Campaign.”Jeanne Bishop has served as President of the North Suburban Chicagoland Million Mom March Chapter and lists herself as a general Brady Campaign volunteer.Griffin Dix was Chairman of the Brady Campaign’s Million Mom March National State Presidents Council and the chapter-elected member of the Brady Campaign Board of Trustees.Bill Jenkins is married to the National Program Director for Victims and Survivors for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and represents the organization with his wife at public events.Thom Mannard is a founding member of the Brady PAC-Illinois.Alice Thomas-Norris is the President of the Million Moms March Chicago Chapter of Survivors for the Brady Campaign.Tom Vanden Berk is a board member of the Brady Campaign/Million Mom March.Amanda & Nick Wilcox are Legislative Co-Chairs of the California Chapters of the Brady Campaign as well as leaders of the Sacramento Valley Chapter and the Nevada County Brady Campaign Chapter.Willie Williams works with the Brady Campaign to target pro-rights lawmakers in Illinois during election years.Heidi Yewman is the Washington state president of the Million Mom March/Brady Campaign. I posted this, but if they follow the standard "open and honest discussion" rules of the left nobody else will ever see it: The ABC Entertainment show you cite as authoritative is a joke. Let's provide our concealed carry holders with clothing that doesn't fit, holsters and sidearms they've never used before and require that they have to sit in the same overstuffed chair, while their attacker, who knows exactly where his "victim" will be gets to enter from the door of his choice. Yep - sure sounds like neutral conditions for an experiment made to actually offer facts, and not promote an agenda behind the guise of pseudo-science... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromulent Posted March 21, 2014 at 11:51 PM Share Posted March 21, 2014 at 11:51 PM Even if carrying gave me just 1% chance of living, I'll take it over 0%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningHP Posted March 22, 2014 at 12:08 AM Share Posted March 22, 2014 at 12:08 AM So why aren't they arguing to disarm cops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ S. Posted March 22, 2014 at 12:52 AM Share Posted March 22, 2014 at 12:52 AM Never argue with stupid people, they will just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted February 12, 2015 at 09:29 PM Share Posted February 12, 2015 at 09:29 PM Check here for updates on the ongoing case of Florida vs Curtis Reeves http://www.curtisreevestrial.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hap Posted February 13, 2015 at 01:31 AM Share Posted February 13, 2015 at 01:31 AM Does carrying a gun offer self-defense? Well, why don't you start, Mr. Fineman, by trying to convince your local police force to go out unarmed? Once you've convinced them, then come back and talk to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revo.concepts Posted February 13, 2015 at 01:47 AM Share Posted February 13, 2015 at 01:47 AM There is no way to debate with people like this. There are no measures that will ensure you are protected 100% of the time while you are in public. This man uses the example of a police officer being murdered and Chris Kyle being murdered as examples of guns not providing self-defense. Of course there will be circumstances where it does not matter whether you are armed or not. For these circumstances there is nothing we can do. For the other 99.99% of the time we should choose to have to ability to fight back. His example is akin to the thought of " well some people die in car accidents while they are wearing seat belts so obviously seat belts offer no safety and should not be allowed to be put into vehicles." Worse than the thought of this moron making statements like this is the myriad of followers that will cheer him along. You cannot debate with closed minded people. Let them keep their $50,000 and their lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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