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What about NO CCW Signs that are not regulation?


45b

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What about NO CCW signs that are not regulation?

 

Such as those different than the Illinois State Police sign with say a Glock or revolver crossed out or one that is photocopied

and is only in black and white with no red?

 

A totally homemade unlike the regulation sign at all?

 

Or too small?

 

What legal power do these have?

 

Asked by students in class.

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Honor the intent or prove it to the judge.

 

You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

 

Spend your money elsewhere. Why give your money to some anti 2a dirt bag?

 

Why bother pushing the envelope?

 

 

 

 

We have discussed this before actually, maybe even a few times. Some seem to think if it isn't exactly as the ISP has posted it's not legally enforceable. I agree except that I won't be the test case to find out.

 

 

 

ETA, are you REALLY going to stand there saying "Officer, I do see the sign, but the sign is not compliant with the law." Why do you want that problem in your life?

 

ETA #2, and if anyone says conceal is conceal. I will send you a dead fish in the mail. How well did conceal is conceal work for Dwayne Feguson?

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Pretty much what I told the students. I can be right, but still be in jail. Best just to move on.
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Many opinions here.......the safest thing would be to treat them as real signs. Tell them you won't shop there any more and leave.

Smart move.

Tell them you won't shop there but don't point out the sign is in non-compliance with the law. If a person later is hooked up over carrying in their establishment, he or she will have a defense with respect to breaking the law.

Agree. While no-one knows exactly what will happen, it's nice to not ruin that option for someone who may need it if they slip up.
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For all of you espousing "buy elsewhere", you should ask yourselves "where will I buy groceries?" as most, if not all, grocery stores will be GFZs.

 

Here in southwestern Illinois, one particular chain - Aldi - plans to sign their stores. As one manager explained it:

This chain is part of a German-owned conglomerate. What do you think they will do?

 

I have yet to see signs on these or any other grocers (Schnuck's, Dierberg's, & Shop-n-Save - the main ones), but as this is just getting started, they just might not have them up yet.

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For all of you espousing "buy elsewhere", you should ask yourselves "where will I buy groceries?" as most, if not all, grocery stores will be GFZs.

 

I agree many big chains will be gun free, but there is still Walmart, pretty much the cheapest all around grocery store in my area anyway, without jumping the border to Wisconsin... Aldi as said above should allow firearms, and there are bound to be others... Also for me I jump across the border to Wisconsin all the time to shop at Woodmans, from what I gather they have reversed policy and allow guns even open, just need a permit that WI honors...

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For all of you espousing "buy elsewhere", you should ask yourselves "where will I buy groceries?" as most, if not all, grocery stores will be GFZs.

 

Here in southwestern Illinois, one particular chain - Aldi - plans to sign their stores. As one manager explained it:

This chain is part of a German-owned conglomerate. What do you think they will do?

 

I have yet to see signs on these or any other grocers (Schnuck's, Dierberg's, & Shop-n-Save - the main ones), but as this is just getting started, they just might not have them up yet.

Nor will you .

They are not posted across the River

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For all of you espousing "buy elsewhere", you should ask yourselves "where will I buy groceries?" as most, if not all, grocery stores will be GFZs.

 

Here in southwestern Illinois, one particular chain - Aldi - plans to sign their stores. As one manager explained it:

This chain is part of a German-owned conglomerate. What do you think they will do?

 

I have yet to see signs on these or any other grocers (Schnuck's, Dierberg's, & Shop-n-Save - the main ones), but as this is just getting started, they just might not have them up yet.

Nor will you .

They are not posted across the River

IIRC Schnucks used to be posted in the St Louis area, but they may have changed since then. Some other large chains as well. No criminal penalty in MO though.

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My take on non-compliant signs:

It does not make any difference if a sign is non-compliant. If it is a prohibited area, the sign isn't going to be a valid excuse for why you were there.

There are so many places that are obvious that they are prohibited, Airport, Schools, Hospitals, Cop Shop.

At a business that is posted incorrectly, it will be difficult to convince someone that you didn't know if the sign is reasonably close to regulation size and content.

I am treating all signs as compliant.

As time goes on, most of the signs that were printed on ink jet printers will likely fade out due to the UV rays. The business will have had some time to relax and just like in MO, most will decide to forget the sign/prohibitions.

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IIRC Schnucks used to be posted in the St Louis area, but they may have changed since then. Some other large chains as well. No criminal penalty in MO though.

When CCW in MO was tried to pass the first time, Schnucks actually financially backed blocking the Proposition to pass it. Once it went through the MO legislature the second time, they posted all stores.

Schnucks eventually backed off the policy officially in MO. I do not see them posting in IL, it makes no sense.

 

Also, I think that most places that are going to post have already done so.

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Probably none but I still would not enter.

 

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

 

^ this ^

 

It may well not hold legal water, but respect their wishes and do not enter anyway. Unless or until they respect your desire to have the means to protect yourself while in their establishment (until they take the signs down). This is why we all should get the No Firearms = No Money cards. Pass those out, even where their sign may not be "legal". It's the only way we're going to get the signs down (legal or not). I expect, like where my father lives in WI (the last state before us to get CCL), many (if not all) places will post a no firearms sign out of a knee-jerk reaction to the new law. They will come down over time, just like they did in WI, via a few different methods. The first one being, the businesses in question being notified by friendly law abiding gun owners such as ourselves (no firearms = no money cards, letters, and phone calls), and some may even come down just over time, once they see for themselves that the streets will not flow with blood! I even like the idea of taking it a step further and sending / giving them a No Firearms = No Money business card WITH an attached receipt from a direct competitor, showing and proving that you're taking your business elsewhere, showing them that they're losing money because of their anti firearm policy.

 

So in the end, I don't think the focus should be so much on whether their sign is "legal" or not. I do think that for any place that has a sign that's not "legal", they will find out in due time, and probably change it, or add, a "legal" sign anyway. So the focus should still be getting said businesses to take down such signage. Pass out those No Firearms = No Money cards, staple a competitors receipt to it even, write letters, make phone calls. Explain why they should and encourage them to change their policy and take down the signage!

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Honor the intent or prove it to the judge.

 

You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

 

Spend your money elsewhere. Why give your money to some anti 2a dirt bag?

 

Why bother pushing the envelope?

 

 

 

 

We have discussed this before actually, maybe even a few times. Some seem to think if it isn't exactly as the ISP has posted it's not legally enforceable. I agree except that I won't be the test case to find out.

 

 

 

ETA, are you REALLY going to stand there saying "Officer, I do see the sign, but the sign is not compliant with the law." Why do you want that problem in your life?

 

ETA #2, and if anyone says conceal is conceal. I will send you a dead fish in the mail. How well did conceal is conceal work for Dwayne Feguson?

 

this dead fish are we talking tuna or nice salmon or sea bass or a slimy asian carp?

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Tell them you won't shop there but don't point out the sign is in non-compliance with the law. If a person later is hooked up over carrying in their establishment, he or she will have a defense with respect to breaking the law.

 

How about, thank them for posting a non-compliant sign. That posting a non-compliment sign makes it clear that unlawful gun otters are unwelcome but lawful ones are allowed; otherwise, a compliment sign would have been posted.

 

Then see how long before the sign is replaced with a compliment one.

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Tell them you won't shop there but don't point out the sign is in non-compliance with the law. If a person later is hooked up over carrying in their establishment, he or she will have a defense with respect to breaking the law.

 

How about, thank them for posting a non-compliant sign. That posting a non-compliment sign makes it clear that unlawful gun otters are unwelcome but lawful ones are allowed; otherwise, a compliment sign would have been posted.

 

Then see how long before the sign is replaced with a compliment one.

Unlawful gun otters should never be welcome anywhere!

 

;)

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Target, everywhere I've been, is not posted.

 

I've only recently been to a single Jewel, and it was not posted.

I agree.

 

In my daily travels I pay attention alot and I have seen very few no gun signs. I anticipate that in my daily travels I will be able to carry 90% of the time, some days I wouldn't need to disarm at all.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking Asian carp is in abundance and I could send two fish for the price of one and do something to help the ecology of our river at the same time!

 

 

 

 

By the way, I think lockman was either sending his last message from his phone or had a few drinks before posting :)

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For all of you espousing "buy elsewhere", you should ask yourselves "where will I buy groceries?" as most, if not all, grocery stores will be GFZs.

 

Here in southwestern Illinois, one particular chain - Aldi - plans to sign their stores. As one manager explained it:

This chain is part of a German-owned conglomerate. What do you think they will do?

 

I have yet to see signs on these or any other grocers (Schnuck's, Dierberg's, & Shop-n-Save - the main ones), but as this is just getting started, they just might not have them up yet.

Schnucks will not post neither will Walmart. Shop n Save is GFZ.

 

Schnucks did post back when MO enacted their CCW law but took all the signs down last year, since their wasnt" blood in the streets"

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Target, everywhere I've been, is not posted.

 

I've only recently been to a single Jewel, and it was not posted.

I agree.

 

In my daily travels I pay attention alot and I have seen very few no gun signs. I anticipate that in my daily travels I will be able to carry 90% of the time, some days I wouldn't need to disarm at all.

 

 

Agreed. I actually haven't seen a single no guns sign yet. I'm sure some will go up when licenses begin to be issued, but I don't anticipate having to change my routine too much.

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For all of you espousing "buy elsewhere", you should ask yourselves "where will I buy groceries?" as most, if not all, grocery stores will be GFZs.

 

Here in southwestern Illinois, one particular chain - Aldi - plans to sign their stores. As one manager explained it:

This chain is part of a German-owned conglomerate. What do you think they will do?

 

I have yet to see signs on these or any other grocers (Schnuck's, Dierberg's, & Shop-n-Save - the main ones), but as this is just getting started, they just might not have them up yet.

Aldi by me posted. I wrote corporate about their carry policy. The responded that they follow local law and allow it where applicable. They foreword the info to regional where they directed my local store to remove signage. They complied.

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I noticed a non regulation sign (too Small) on a door to a nursing home. Just in the right place that you will see it as you enter. It is a good reminder that nursing homes are on the no-no list. It should be a good reminder since the list of non-carry places is large and everytime you go some place new you don't have to grap the list out of you pocket to see if this is one of them.

Al

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