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Walmart Concealed Carry prohibited sign


mjw45

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It is truly amazing how paranoid this state has made some of it citizens when it comes to firearms.

 

My GOSH. i really don't think they are trying to trick you two.

 

Come on,follow me i will help you relax. WOW.

 

It's sickening seeing our own people not having the common sense God gave a turkey, not everything should need to be broken down barney style

 

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I KNOW it!!! Some of that stuff posted sure LOOKS good on paper..............BUT,do they think every day when the general PUBLIC cc walks up to that door and plainly see's the sign isn't MEANT for them....they are going to get arrested if they don't turn AROUND....WOW! Again , good ole commom sense prevails! CARRY-ON my brother!

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It's sickening seeing our own people not having the common sense God gave a turkey, not everything needs to be broken down barney style

 

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It seems to be fast becoming the norm on Illinois Carry

 

It's not even fun checking in anymore and it zaps all my energy , I don't even have enough left over at the end of the day to slap around the wife or kick the dog

 

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The "legal portion" is not the only qualifier that makes a sign official or of uniform design. I seem to remember a thread not long ago or maybe it was this thread earlier (I am having a hard time keeping up on all of the threads lately) where (I believe it was TyGuy) who posted a picture of a sign drawn in crayon that had the "legal language". Would that sign also be compliant in your opinion?

 

The Wal-Mart sign also contains the ISP image and is equal to or larger than the mandated minimum size...

 

Yes the sign may be larger but if it is it still must have the 4x6 uniform sign on it. Wallyworld could put up a billboard in their parking lot scaled to perfect proportions to the uniform sign and it doesn't mean diddly squat unless it has the uniform 4x6 sign posted on it. This isn't rocket science here. It is clearly stated in the administrative rules.

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I'm really beginning to think that they should have included a written exam in the ccw requirements and requiring people to be able to read English. What is so difficult about this? Let's see if I can help clear things up here. The sign says only for on duty associates and vendors.

 

ONLY adv.

1. Alone in kind or class; sole: an only child; the only one left.

2. Standing alone by reason of superiority or excellence.

adv.

1. Without anyone or anything else; alone: room for only one passenger.

2.

a. At the very least: If you would only come home. The story was only too true.

b. And nothing else or more: I only work here.

3. Exclusively; solely: facts known only to us.

 

ON DUTY

1.Working.

2. On the clock

3. The opposite of off duty.

 

ASSOCIATES

1.Individuals who work at Wal-Mart.

 

VENDORS

1.Individuals who work for third party business who come in to stock items such as pop,chips and bread.

2.Idiots driving delivery trucks at break neck speeds almost running everyone off the road.

(Sarcasm emphasis added to the above section)

 

I can't believe that we are bickering about something so stupid. Every single person out there who signed up and paid for a ccw permit in this state HAS to know that we are going to face some opposition and even be accused of being a violent person. We are pioneers here and our actions will influence how easy it is for our children to carry concealed and exercise their second amendment rights and we can't even stop bickering about a stupid sign that doesn't even APPLY to any of us unless you meet one of the definitions of associate or vendor. Geez people! Let's take a breath here! Do you really think that a multi-billion dollar company like Wal-Mart would post signage without running it through the legal department? They are aware it's not a legal sign by law and they posted it anyway. Why? Because it doesn't have anything to do with us and is only reminding associates and vendors of their policy. Why would they go through all the trouble of modifying a sign to respect YOUR rights when it would be so much easier to just print out the signs as they were and just post them, banning everyone's rights? We shouldn't be criticizing them, we should be thanking them! I also got the clarification for the signs from a member of management today and they said the exact same thing. "IT ONLY APPLIES TO ASSOCIATES AND VENDORS" his exact words. Now either this is a very elaborate scheme to get us all to carry in their stores so that we can get arrested or they actually are supporting our rights! You decide which one. If you're so paranoid that you smell a conspiracy here then you probably need to re-examine your motivations to carry and perhaps wait a year or two before carrying your weapon until things calm down. Can we move on now? Maybe to a different company that doesn't support our rights. Perhaps we could take all this wasted energy and re-direct it at them. If you can't understand this simple concept, then I can't help you.

 

 

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My email to Walmart corporate:

 

Hello -

 

Recently a number of your Illinois stores began displaying a new sign prohibiting concealed carry of firearms for Walmart employees and vendors. I can understand why this was done, but the design of the sign is extremely problematic for your customers.

 

The new sign includes the entirety of the state mandated "no carry zone" sign with the addition of text while attempting to restrict the prohibition to "... on-duty Walmart associates and vendors."

 

However, the way Illinois statute reads the incorporation of the state mandated sign in your design effectively makes the store off limits for your licensed customers. The additional text that attempts to restrict the prohibition to employees and vendors has no legal effect, the prohibition applies to all.

 

May I suggest a redesigned sign that removes the state required wording? I regret that I will be unable to continue to patronize Walmart until this issue is resolved.

 

Thanks -

 

 

Say what you want, but in my opinion the sign prohibits carry by everyone as currently implemented. I write and interpret complex contract language all day long which is the basis for this belief; everyone else is free to do as they wish. More supporting data from bobapunk in an earlier thread:

 

From the JCAR Filing:

 

619 Section 1231.150 Prohibited Areas

 

620

 

621 Section 65 of the Act specifies areas where concealed carry of firearms is prohibited and requires

 

622 posting of those areas.

 

623

 

624 a) A template for signs required pursuant to Section 65(d) of the Act shall be made

 

625 available by the Department on its website.

 

626

 

627 B) Owners of prohibited areas may utilize signage larger in size than the template

 

628 provided at their discretion. If prohibited areas use a larger sign, the template

 

629 provided shall be reproduced no smaller than the 4" x 6" dimension required by

 

630 the Act somewhere on the larger sign.

 

631

 

632 c) Prohibited areas may include additional language on their signs. If prohibited

 

633 areas include additional language, the template provided shall be reproduced no

 

634 smaller than the 4" x 6" dimension required by the Act somewhere on the sign.

 

635

 

636 d) The required signs shall be placed in such a manner as to provide persons entering

 

637 the prohibited area reasonable notice that they are entering a prohibited area and

 

638 may not carry a concealed firearm, pursuant to the Act, therein.

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and here we go again.no common sense. NOT EVERY PERSON WALKING INTO WALMART IS A LAWYER AND WILL NOT BREAK DOWN EVERY LETTER LIKE YOU ARE DOING.

 

AND THEY WILL NOT HAVE A SWAT TEAM HIDING BEHIND THE WOMENS CLOTHING RACK WAITING TO ARREST THEM.

 

It is VERY simple. If you are working in my store,you cannot legally have a gun on you.

 

please....lets just use some COMMOM sense here for a minute

 

 

This thread needs to be locked before Molly pulls one oar outta the water!!!!

 

As I said, do as you wish. We could use a test case.

 

Intent doesn't mean squat, and common sense has little bearing on legalities. My opinion is that the Walmart sign as currently implemented is a valid GFZ notice for all FCCL holders. All they need to do is remove the "Pursuant to 430 ILCS 66/65" line to clear it up.

Edited by HeavyDuty
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and here we go again.no common sense. NOT EVERY PERSON WALKING INTO WALMART IS A LAWYER AND WILL NOT BREAK DOWN EVERY LETTER LIKE YOU ARE DOING.

 

AND THEY WILL NOT HAVE A SWAT TEAM HIDING BEHIND THE WOMENS CLOTHING RACK WAITING TO ARREST THEM.

 

It is VERY simple. If you are working in my store,you cannot legally have a gun on you.

 

please....lets just use some COMMOM sense here for a minute

 

 

This thread needs to be locked before Molly pulls one oar outta the water!!!!

 

As I said, do as you wish. We could use a test case.

 

Intent doesn't mean squat, and common sense has little bearing on legalities. My opinion is that the Walmart sign as currently implemented is a valid GFZ notice for all FCCL holders. All they need to do is remove the "Pursuant to 430 ILCS 66/65" line to clear it up.

 

 

Then obviously you missed what I copied and pasted from the isp website under signage and to be a legal sign it must not contain any other text and shall be 4x6. If you don't believe me go to the isp website and read with your own eyes, its comical that you work with complex legal crap but can't comprehend simple grade school vocabulary lol

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You can copy a $ 100 bill and put it on paper and even though it says Federal Reserve note and has the treasury seal does not make it legal tender.

 

LOL, following your logic, if someone paid you with a real $100 bill that had "legal tender only for walmart employees" written on it, I guess you'd be S.O.L. :rofl:

Edited by Mr. Fife
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Then obviously you missed what I copied and pasted from the isp website under signage and to be a legal sign it must not contain any other text and shall be 4x6. If you don't believe me go to the isp website and read with your own eyes, its comical that you work with complex legal crap but can't comprehend simple grade school vocabulary lol

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You obviously missed the specific JCAR rules language quoted above. The rules being adopted are more detailed than the statute which isn't unusual.

 

I'm done with you and your insults.

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and here we go again.no common sense. NOT EVERY PERSON WALKING INTO WALMART IS A LAWYER AND WILL NOT BREAK DOWN EVERY LETTER LIKE YOU ARE DOING.

 

AND THEY WILL NOT HAVE A SWAT TEAM HIDING BEHIND THE WOMENS CLOTHING RACK WAITING TO ARREST THEM.

 

It is VERY simple. If you are working in my store,you cannot legally have a gun on you.

 

please....lets just use some COMMOM sense here for a minute

 

 

This thread needs to be locked before Molly pulls one oar outta the water!!!!

 

As I said, do as you wish. We could use a test case.

 

Intent doesn't mean squat, and common sense has little bearing on legalities. My opinion is that the Walmart sign as currently implemented is a valid GFZ notice for all FCCL holders. All they need to do is remove the "Pursuant to 430 ILCS 66/65" line to clear it up.

 

 

Then obviously you missed what I copied and pasted from the isp website under signage and to be a legal sign it must not contain any other text and shall be 4x6. If you don't believe me go to the isp website and read with your own eyes, its comical that you work with complex legal crap but can't comprehend simple grade school vocabulary lol

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Look at the original pic, there was no additional text within the 4x6 area or it's border, legal GFZ posted sign.

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Larryrxtx said:

 

Look at the original pic, there was no additional text within the 4x6 area or it's border, legal GFZ posted sign.

 

__________________________

 

Respectfully, Uncle Harley, the above is correct. Your "no text" is taken out of context. The portion follows a semi-colon, and can also be stated as (except the reference to the Illinois Code 430 ILCS 66/1) no text or marking within the one-inch area surrounding the graphic design;

 

Bushy

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I basing my response on what the isp has posted which should reflect any jcar rules the statute says the isp says what is a legal sign and what isn't and they have posted that it may not have any additional text and must be 4 x6 period end of story why don't someone send a copy to isp and ask them if it prohibits all people, if they say it does ill happily eat crow

 

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Then obviously you missed what I copied and pasted from the isp website under signage and to be a legal sign it must not contain any other text and shall be 4x6. If you don't believe me go to the isp website and read with your own eyes, its comical that you work with complex legal crap but can't comprehend simple grade school vocabulary lol

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

You obviously missed the specific JCAR rules language quoted above. The rules being adopted are more detailed than the statute which isn't unusual.

 

I'm done with you and your insults.

 

 

Son,you are missing the whole point of this conversation.You are missing the WHOLE point of walmart posting the sign.The sign is not intended for me CC'ing. The walmart manager told me she wants me to come on inside her store if i am legal to carry.Walmart does not have a problem with law abiding CC. Period.They love it. You wont be arrested by breaking the stores policy as long as you are not a vendor of,or an employee on duty.I don't know how much simpler i can word it for you to comprehend.They allow CC.

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The closest analogy I can come up with is this sign is equal to the Second Amendment.

 

The 4x6 middle portion of the sign is a "LEGAL" no carry sign. It is the "operative" clause much like "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The other stuff doesn't matter. The "this only applies to employees and vendors" is the equivalent of the "militia" portion.

 

ACCORDING TO ADOPTED JCAR RULES, this sign *should* have legal force of law for ALL FCCL holders.

 

THIS IS PRECISELY THE REASON WHY THE JCAR RULES SHOULD BE INVALIDATED BY A TRAILER BILL.

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Larryrxtx said:

 

Look at the original pic, there was no additional text within the 4x6 area or it's border, legal GFZ posted sign.

 

__________________________

 

Respectfully, Uncle Harley, the above is correct. Your "no text" is taken out of context. The portion follows a semi-colon, and can also be stated as (except the reference to the Illinois Code 430 ILCS 66/1) no text or marking within the one-inch area surrounding the graphic design;

 

Bushy

. Uh it is within the border are we not looking at the same image in the original post ?

 

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Then obviously you missed what I copied and pasted from the isp website under signage and to be a legal sign it must not contain any other text and shall be 4x6. If you don't believe me go to the isp website and read with your own eyes, its comical that you work with complex legal crap but can't comprehend simple grade school vocabulary lol

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

You obviously missed the specific JCAR rules language quoted above. The rules being adopted are more detailed than the statute which isn't unusual.

 

I'm done with you and your insults.

 

 

Son,you are missing the whole point of this conversation.You are missing the WHOLE point of walmart posting the sign.The sign is not intended for me CC'ing. The walmart manager told me she wants me to come on inside her store if i am legal to carry.Walmart does not have a problem with law abiding CC. Period.They love it. You wont be arrested by breaking the stores policy as long as you are not a vendor of,or an employee on duty.I don't know how much simpler i can word it for you to comprehend.They allow CC.

 

 

ETA: ok Ty...I agree...I'm out.

 

not enough common sense here for me to read.

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