domin8 Posted December 30, 2013 at 08:52 PM Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 08:52 PM This isn't just a problem for people out of state, but many in the state too. Shall Issue means shall Issue. Some of us will find out when they release the application, won't we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGuy420 Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:32 PM Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:32 PM An update for out of state residents. Illinois will accept applications from the state of... :drum roll please: Hawaii. They just updated the CCL web site to list that state. So, if you're from Hawaii, congratulations on being able to apply for an Illinois CCL. Hopefully this is only the beginning of residents from other states which can apply for an Illinois CCL. Funny thing is Hawaii is a May Issue state... And from what I've heard they've pretty much never issued any CCL's. So pretty much nobody from out of state can apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatty Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:35 PM Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:35 PM An update for out of state residents. Illinois will accept applications from the state of... :drum roll please: Hawaii. They just updated the CCL web site to list that state. So, if you're from Hawaii, congratulations on being able to apply for an Illinois CCL. Hopefully this is only the beginning of residents from other states which can apply for an Illinois CCL. Funny thing is Hawaii is a May Issue state... And from what I've heard they've pretty much never issued any CCL's. So pretty much nobody from out of state can apply.There's no requirement that a non-resident must have a CCL from their home state in order to apply for an Illinois non-resident's license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:38 PM Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:38 PM An update for out of state residents. Illinois will accept applications from the state of... :drum roll please: Hawaii. They just updated the CCL web site to list that state. So, if you're from Hawaii, congratulations on being able to apply for an Illinois CCL. Hopefully this is only the beginning of residents from other states which can apply for an Illinois CCL. Funny thing is Hawaii is a May Issue state... And from what I've heard they've pretty much never issued any CCL's. So pretty much nobody from out of state can apply.There's no requirement that a non-resident must have a CCL from their home state in order to apply for an Illinois non-resident's license. Phatty, actually there is a requirement. It's part of the check-list for out-of-state residents. Must upload a copy of their CCW from their state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGuy420 Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:39 PM Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 09:39 PM An update for out of state residents. Illinois will accept applications from the state of... :drum roll please: Hawaii. They just updated the CCL web site to list that state. So, if you're from Hawaii, congratulations on being able to apply for an Illinois CCL. Hopefully this is only the beginning of residents from other states which can apply for an Illinois CCL. Funny thing is Hawaii is a May Issue state... And from what I've heard they've pretty much never issued any CCL's. So pretty much nobody from out of state can apply.There's no requirement that a non-resident must have a CCL from their home state in order to apply for an Illinois non-resident's license. I was going by what I read on handgunlaw.us... NON-RESIDENTS In accordance with 430 ILCS 66/40 (, out of state residents may be eligible for an Illinois Concealed Carry License if your state meets the definition of substantially similar as established by rule. See 20 Il. Admin. Code 1231.10. Currently, the states identified below have been determined to have laws related to firearm ownership, possession, and carrying that are substantially similar to the requirements to obtain a license under Illinois’ law; and, therefore, may apply for an Concealed Carry License. This list will be updated as additional states are identified as substantially similar. Further Information concerning the regulations for non-resident applications can be found at 20 Il. Admin. Code 1231.110. Hawaii Note: Illinois law states you must have a permit/license from your home state if applicable to apply for an Illinois permit. If you don’t have your resident permit/license Handgunlaw.us at this times believes you can not apply for an Illinois Permit to Carry and will only accept applications from residents of states listed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatty Posted December 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM (edited) Phatty, actually there is a requirement. It's part of the check-list for out-of-state residents. Must upload a copy of their CCW from their state.Not surprisingly, I interpret the FCCA differently. Section 40 identifies the requirements that a non-resident must meet, and then identifies what needs to be submitted with the application. The list of items to be submitted is not meant to serve as an additional set of qualifications, but instead, is meant to aid the ISP in determining whether an applicant meets the requirements. A copy of the non-resident's CCL from their home state, if applicable, is supposed to be submitted with the application. I read this statement as nothing more than, "if you have a CCL from your home state, please provide a copy of it with your application." The funny thing is that in the ISP's list of eligibility requirements for a non-resident applicant, there is nothing about needing to have a CCL from your home state. But, as you mentioned, the checklist adds that little gem. I'm still not convinced that the ISP's formal stance is that you need to have a CCL from your home state, or if the checklist is just sloppily written. Edited December 30, 2013 at 10:55 PM by Phatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted December 30, 2013 at 11:35 PM Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 at 11:35 PM (edited) Phatty, actually there is a requirement. It's part of the check-list for out-of-state residents. Must upload a copy of their CCW from their state.Not surprisingly, I interpret the FCCA differently. Section 40 identifies the requirements that a non-resident must meet, and then identifies what needs to be submitted with the application. The list of items to be submitted is not meant to serve as an additional set of qualifications, but instead, is meant to aid the ISP in determining whether an applicant meets the requirements. A copy of the non-resident's CCL from their home state, if applicable, is supposed to be submitted with the application. I read this statement as nothing more than, "if you have a CCL from your home state, please provide a copy of it with your application." The funny thing is that in the ISP's list of eligibility requirements for a non-resident applicant, there is nothing about needing to have a CCL from your home state. But, as you mentioned, the checklist adds that little gem. I'm still not convinced that the ISP's formal stance is that you need to have a CCL from your home state, or if the checklist is just sloppily written. Well I admit I did look at what would happen.. If you haven't already filled out your app, or maybe even if you have. change your state to Hawaii and look what it asks for. In case you can't do that, or just don't want to, this is what it states. Again, this is JUST for out-of-state residents. For out-of-state requirements, you must: 1. print, complete, sign and notarize the Out-of-state Affidavit form stating you meet mental health standards to carry a firearm in the state of Illinois; and 2. upload a copy of your out-of-state conceal carry license.Upload both the affidavit and a copy of your current conceal carry license below: Which really does bring up an interesting point. Since Illinois makes you fill out the affidavit, which must be signed and notarized, it specifically is stating that you meet mental health standards...If you are stating you do, perjury to law and all that, then why doesn't Illinois accept out of state residents for the CCL? That's the whole hang-up, the mental health angle. Plus, you would think Illinois would want the $300 for every out-of-state resident. I know, I know.. I'm making sense. Edited December 30, 2013 at 11:39 PM by Riverpilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Peterson Posted December 31, 2013 at 12:32 AM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 12:32 AM Does anyone have an official source for Hawaii in terms of carry app opportunity with ISP? Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted December 31, 2013 at 02:11 AM Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 02:11 AM Does anyone have an official source for Hawaii in terms of carry app opportunity with ISP? Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're asking if I asked somebody directly from ISP, then no. I did find the information of Hawaii being the only approved state on the Illinois CCL web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Peterson Posted December 31, 2013 at 02:57 AM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 02:57 AM (edited) Does anyone have an official source for Hawaii in terms of carry app opportunity with ISP? I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're asking if I asked somebody directly from ISP, then no. I did find the information of Hawaii being the only approved state on the Illinois CCL web site. I found it finally under "Checklist". I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Edited December 31, 2013 at 03:11 AM by Gray Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted December 31, 2013 at 05:27 AM Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 05:27 AM Does anyone have an official source for Hawaii in terms of carry app opportunity with ISP? I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're asking if I asked somebody directly from ISP, then no. I did find the information of Hawaii being the only approved state on the Illinois CCL web site. I found it finally under "Checklist". I don't know whether to laugh or cry. All us out-of-staters can do is hope the power that be on our side can work their magic. I suppose each individual state can raise a ruckus with Illinois for action.. et al.. I'm thinking Iowa most likely will sit on the side-lines. Perhaps the powers that be of Illinois will realize they're missing out on a LOT of money. Heck, $300 a pop for each out-of-state license! If I was Illinois I'd be inviting everybody out-of-state to pay that fee. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted December 31, 2013 at 03:15 PM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 03:15 PM Phatty, actually there is a requirement. It's part of the check-list for out-of-state residents. Must upload a copy of their CCW from their state.Not surprisingly, I interpret the FCCA differently. Section 40 identifies the requirements that a non-resident must meet, and then identifies what needs to be submitted with the application. The list of items to be submitted is not meant to serve as an additional set of qualifications, but instead, is meant to aid the ISP in determining whether an applicant meets the requirements. A copy of the non-resident's CCL from their home state, if applicable, is supposed to be submitted with the application. I read this statement as nothing more than, "if you have a CCL from your home state, please provide a copy of it with your application." The funny thing is that in the ISP's list of eligibility requirements for a non-resident applicant, there is nothing about needing to have a CCL from your home state. But, as you mentioned, the checklist adds that little gem. I'm still not convinced that the ISP's formal stance is that you need to have a CCL from your home state, or if the checklist is just sloppily written. I like your less restrictive interpretation better, Phatty, but Riverpilot read it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatty Posted December 31, 2013 at 04:01 PM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 04:01 PM I like your less restrictive interpretation better, Phatty, but Riverpilot read it correctly.Don't give up so easily mauserme. I agree it looks like ISP is interpreting the provision as Riverpilot read it, but there's enough ambiguity in the statute that a resident of Hawaii could challenge it in court and win. Of course, if the point is to challenge the entire nonresident license scheme as unconstitutional because it effectively prevents any nonresident from obtaining a license, then you would want to strongly argue that this provision requires a nonresident to have a license in their home state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted December 31, 2013 at 04:07 PM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 04:07 PM I like your less restrictive interpretation better, Phatty, but Riverpilot read it correctly.Don't give up so easily mauserme. I agree it looks like ISP is interpreting the provision as Riverpilot read it, but there's enough ambiguity in the statute that a resident of Hawaii could challenge it in court and win. Of course, if the point is to challenge the entire nonresident license scheme as unconstitutional because it effectively prevents any nonresident from obtaining a license, then you would want to strongly argue that this provision requires a nonresident to have a license in their home state.Touché. Iirc, isn't that a requirement for a nonresident to obtain an FCCL in Illinois? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted December 31, 2013 at 07:39 PM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 07:39 PM I like your less restrictive interpretation better, Phatty, but Riverpilot read it correctly.Don't give up so easily mauserme. I agree it looks like ISP is interpreting the provision as Riverpilot read it, but there's enough ambiguity in the statute that a resident of Hawaii could challenge it in court and win. Of course, if the point is to challenge the entire nonresident license scheme as unconstitutional because it effectively prevents any nonresident from obtaining a license, then you would want to strongly argue that this provision requires a nonresident to have a license in their home state. Your assertions in Post #37 are not consistent with the hope you expressed in Post #44 to eventually reach that interpretation. I understand that one of your "... favorite pasttimes (sic) is finding all of the inconsistent, illogical, vague, ambiguous and nonsensical provisions in the not-so-well-drafted FCCA", as you once phrased it, but stating your hope for future change as if it were established fact serves only to confuse people. Most are here do accomplish important work, not to play at a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatty Posted December 31, 2013 at 08:12 PM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 08:12 PM Your assertions in Post #37 are not consistent with the hope you expressed in Post #44 to eventually reach that interpretation.I provided my own opinion as to the proper interpretation of Section 40 in Post #37. I'm not the director of the ISP, so my opinion of how the law should be read makes no difference to the ISP, who is actually in charge of handling the application process. In Post #44, I expressed my hope that there will be a successful challenge to the ISP's (in my opinion incorrect) interpretation of the law. I'm not sure how those two posts are either inconsistent or misleading. The only thing possibly inconsistent is that in Post #37 I said that I wasn't sure what ISP's official interpretation was, but by the time I posted in Post #44, Riverpilot had showed convincingly ISP's official stance. IC and Todd V. and others have repeatedly disagreed with the way the ISP has interpreted the FCCA and expressed an intent to challenge those misinterpretations. Are you saying that by doing so, they are confusing people? If you simply disagree with my opinion, that's fine, I'll respect that. But it seems like any opinion different from yours is classified as misleading. If something I post is against IC's official stance or will hurt the cause, just let me know and I'll keep it to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 31, 2013 at 10:47 PM Share Posted December 31, 2013 at 10:47 PM (edited) In my opinion, since it's a fundamental civil right, I don't see how any discrimination against any American could be "reasonable". Anyone who has full civil rights for firearms should be eligible and treated the same, and pay the same fees. I don't see how a regulatory judgement about a non-resident's home state has any bearing whatsoever on whether an applicant who has fullfilled all of Illinois' own requirements, training etc can be issued an Illinois permit. They're misapplying some kind of interpretation of permit reciprocity instead onto the process of issuing their own permits which is completely independent of other states. Just need some Wisconsin and/or Indiana residents as plaintiffs for another 7th Circuit litigation apparently. Too bad they can't just put the state on court supervision and require review of all firearms laws prior to implementation. Edited December 31, 2013 at 10:51 PM by Gamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 1, 2014 at 05:47 AM Share Posted January 1, 2014 at 05:47 AM How about s class action lawsuit. I'm a Utah resident and feel the discrimination. The problem I'm seeing here is Illinois is saying other states laws carry merit and enforceability in the state. That is not the case. I am subject to Illinois law while in Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted January 1, 2014 at 08:58 PM Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 at 08:58 PM How about s class action lawsuit. I'm a Utah resident and feel the discrimination. The problem I'm seeing here is Illinois is saying other states laws carry merit and enforceability in the state. That is not the case. I am subject to Illinois law while in Illinois. I certainly hope it doesn't come down to the courts, or waiting/hoping for a change in the law. You would think Illinois would be eager to take $300 + from out-of-state residents. I have faith in Todd, Molly, et al.. that they'll open the eyes of the ISP. If not? Then I'll morally support any and all who wish to challenge in a court of law. Regardless, the residents of Illinois FINALLY get the opportunity to protect themselves, like the majority of other states. Is it a perfect law? Far from it. BUT... It is still a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salamander Posted January 1, 2014 at 11:50 PM Share Posted January 1, 2014 at 11:50 PM (edited) It will be interesting to see how they handle California, we're pretty solid on mental health reporting and have rigorous training requirements, at least for those of us in counties that issue at all. I have to assume that CA training doesn't count toward IL training only because no one at ISP has looked at it yet, ours is tougher than the Utah course that does count for four hours. If we don't qualify as "substantially similar" I don't know who else will. It's already going to be a pain, there are currently no California instructors listed on the ISP site. Maybe not surprising given the distance but there are a whole lot of us here who are former Illinois residents and who still do business in Illinois so it's a market niche waiting to be filled. When I do my bi-annual renewal training in about two weeks I'm going to mention it to the instructors who are all past or present local LE. As it stands now, assuming California is determined to be "substantially similar" I would need to do the training when I'm in Illinois in the spring and then apply, and hopefully have the permit by the time my usual mid-summer client work begins. Possible since I'm out there three or four times each year, I guess. BTW, in California there is no provision for non-resident CCW issuance, they're impossible to get for a non-resident (or for most residents in urban coastal counties, for that matter since the county sheriff is typically the issuing authority). Oregon issues non-resident permits only to residents of bordering states and even that program is currently cut back because of budget cuts. Edited January 1, 2014 at 11:52 PM by Salamander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgsailor Posted January 2, 2014 at 01:37 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 01:37 PM Just because a state does not issue non resident permits does not mean they are not gun friendly. Iowa does not issue non resident permits but honors all other states permits as do many other states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 2, 2014 at 01:44 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 01:44 PM Good point. I never looked at it like that, but I didn't consider states that didn't issue nonresident permits as anti either. In my book is always a case by case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted January 2, 2014 at 04:03 PM Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 04:03 PM I can imagine there are going to be quite a few disappointed out-of-state residents today, and come the 5th attempting to apply for their CCL and finding out, whoops.. so sorry. I certainly hope persons out in the world haven't wasted any more money by doing prints, et al... :crosses fingers and toes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoZman Posted January 2, 2014 at 04:35 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 04:35 PM I can imagine there are going to be quite a few disappointed out-of-state residents today, and come the 5th attempting to apply for their CCL and finding out, whoops.. so sorry. I certainly hope persons out in the world haven't wasted any more money by doing prints, et al... :crosses fingers and toes: My disappointment took place a couple months ago when I realized they (ISP) would never approve my instructor application, notwithstanding the fact that I meet all of the requirements. Hoosiers need not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 2, 2014 at 05:09 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 05:09 PM (edited) The problem I see with this is the ISP is giving us a mixed message by stating other states laws are abiding in Illinois. I thought only Illinois laws were abiding in Illinois. Does this mean I can go 39 over the posted speed limit and only receive a speeding ticket since Utah declares wreckless driving doesn't occur until 40 over, or am I to believe the line is drawn at 20 like in Virginia, and be accused of a felony? I'm so confused now. Which state's laws am I to abide by while in Illinois? Edited January 2, 2014 at 05:12 PM by domin8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted January 2, 2014 at 05:35 PM Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 05:35 PM (edited) I see multiple out-of-state instructors being approved now, which brings up the question. If instructors have to get a non-resident CCL to be an instructor, how are they going to get one when the states they reside in aren't on the approved list? I'm really hoping this means, that any state an instructor gets approved to teach the Illinois CCL, means those residents will be able to apply for a non-resident Illinois CCL. If not? Then all those instructors approved now, are going to be out of luck in April. Edited January 2, 2014 at 05:37 PM by Riverpilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted January 2, 2014 at 05:44 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 05:44 PM @Riverpilot post 57Instructors have to qualify to be a licensee before they can be approved. The fact that out of state instructors are being approved means that residents of those same states would be able to qualify to become licensees a well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverpilot Posted January 2, 2014 at 06:10 PM Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 06:10 PM @Riverpilot post 57Instructors have to qualify to be a licensee before they can be approved. The fact that out of state instructors are being approved means that residents of those same states would be able to qualify to become licensees a well. You would think so. I'm hoping that the approved states list will be increasing quite a bit this week. However, as of right now, Hawaii is still the only state approved for out-of-state residents to apply for an Illinois non-resident CCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82Bulldog Posted January 2, 2014 at 06:30 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 06:30 PM Does anyone know the status of Michigan (approved or rejected)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgsailor Posted January 2, 2014 at 06:38 PM Share Posted January 2, 2014 at 06:38 PM Let me get this clear. Out of state instructors are being approved as we speak BUT, to be an out of state instructor you have to get a carry permit, which right now unless you live in Hawaii you cannot get. Makes sense to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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