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Update 9/19 -- talks and complaints continue. . .UPDATED 10:15


Tvandermyde

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If they do not take responsibility for training credits then I would like an indemnity agreement. Things like DD214 person gets married, last name different, address changed, no picture, and unless their soc is on a DL, how would I even know this is the same person? At the very least there should be a way to verify and if not, then I am responsible? This is only one scenario and I am not picking on X mil here, I have the utmost respect for those who serve/served, this was just the first one that popped in my head.

 

The bottom line is if they wish to put all culpability on us, I would like to be protected. I feel a bit like "Mikey" from the Life commercials, though what's in the bowl is far from cereal.

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The ISP plans to make a large posting of instructors on or about 9/30. They will list curriculums at the same time. They position, is that they see this as big business and don’t want be seen as giving anyone an advantage and fielding complaints from those not approved. Expect a posting of a few hundred or more.

 

 

#1 Thanks for your hard work and this update

#2 How do they resolve their above statement with the fact that they have already posted 23 approved instructors?

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Does anyone else think that the 9/30 promised updates

have a lot to do with a certain 10/3 court date?

 

Without a doubt, I had said it in another thread. They would wait until 10/2 to issue courses so they could go into the orals saying they began the approval process for courses and instructors by 9/7 as mandated in the FCCA albeit not at the same time. They won't go into orals without having both on their site. I was wrong as I said they would keep it at 7 instructors and approve 1 course. So far 23 and 0, but sounds like they will release a lot just before.

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The ISP plans to make a large posting of instructors on or about 9/30. They will list curriculums at the same time. They position, is that they see this as big business and don’t want be seen as giving anyone an advantage and fielding complaints from those not approved. Expect a posting of a few hundred or more.

 

 

#1 Thanks for your hard work and this update

#2 How do they resolve their above statement with the fact that they have already posted 23 approved instructors?

 

those 23 know where the skeletons are ...

 

I kid I kid

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I had said the second for curriculum to be released, day before orals, off by two days. Last minute for everything regardless of their "reasoning". It's a good sign but should still show re courts that try will use up every second of every deadline given with little to no communication.

 

If they do wait until 9/30 to post a list of approved firearms courses they will have complied with the act 3 week or so AFTER the deadline. That has to be worth something in the oral arguments...?

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Does anyone else think that the 9/30 promised updates

have a lot to do with a certain 10/3 court date?

 

Without a doubt, I had said it in another thread. They would wait until 10/2 to issue courses so they could go into the orals saying they began the approval process for courses and instructors by 9/7 as mandated in the FCCA albeit not at the same time. They won't go into orals without having both on their site. I was wrong as I said they would keep it at 7 instructors and approve 1 course. So far 23 and 0, but sounds like they will release a lot just before.

 

There is a huge problem with that line of defense. The FCCA lists the 60 day deadline for instructors and firearms courses completely separately. It was 2 separate and distinct tasks to be completed. They barely managed one.

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Well that update #1 sounds encouraging and definitely a fair way to do it by releasing a large number of instructors at once. It would have been nice if they posted that, but whatever. It sounds like definition of curriculum as far as hours per section may still be up in the air. It's a start.

 

If this was their plan they should have released the instructor applications in July, worked through them all, and posted the entire list on or around August 30. They are making this up as they go...

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I had said the second for curriculum to be released, day before orals, off by two days. Last minute for everything regardless of their "reasoning". It's a good sign but should still show re courts that try will use up every second of every deadline given with little to no communication.

 

If they do wait until 9/30 to post a list of approved firearms courses they will have complied with the act 3 week or so AFTER the deadline. That has to be worth something in the oral arguments...?

 

I agree, and said earlier in this thread and others that IL in general has taken until the very last day of each and every deadline dating back to the December 12th ruling. Last day to file for extensions, last day to file for en banc, last day to pass a bill, last day to veto etc... This will not change and without teeth or new legislation in the upcoming veto sessions it will only get worse.

 

There is no better argument than that for the orals. They have proven time and time again they will delay it as long as legally possible. If the 7th somehow moots this case we'll be dependent on legislative sessions yet again, and for every good bill introduced we'll be fighting 3 bad ones. This is IL, that is my only reasoning. I know we have those on this site and in the house/senate that are for us, but we have those in Chicago that control what happens outside of the courts.

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I don't see any way they can do this because the Basic Pistol doesn't match the emergency rules and the rules can be changed until the end of November. So unless they don't pay any attention to the rules they wrote (it is possible, they don't follow any other rules) then they can't approve it until at least the end of November.

 

could they at least certify NRA Basic Pistol?

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Does anyone else think that the 9/30 promised updates

have a lot to do with a certain 10/3 court date?

 

Without a doubt, I had said it in another thread. They would wait until 10/2 to issue courses so they could go into the orals saying they began the approval process for courses and instructors by 9/7 as mandated in the FCCA albeit not at the same time. They won't go into orals without having both on their site. I was wrong as I said they would keep it at 7 instructors and approve 1 course. So far 23 and 0, but sounds like they will release a lot just before.

 

There is a huge problem with that line of defense. The FCCA lists the 60 deadline for instructors and firearms courses completely separately. It was 2 separate and distinct tasks to be completed. They barely managed one.

 

But they were so overwhelmed, heck they asked for and got an extension for the shear fact a lawyer was allegedly on vacation at the time of one of the deadlines. They interpret the law how they want and plead ignorance to the judges. Hopefully the 7th is well aware of this

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A quick note to apologize to anyone that had to deal with me in a rather hot headed mode a couple of days ago.......I had been dealing with the City of Evanston and BATFE over some issues related to my FFL that had nothing to do with the CCL issue and was rather amped up. Good to see that Todd is making progress. Lets see where it goes from here.
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I don't see any way they can do this because the Basic Pistol doesn't match the emergency rules and the rules can be changed until the end of November. So unless they don't pay any attention to the rules they wrote (it is possible, they don't follow any other rules) then they can't approve it until at least the end of November.

 

could they at least certify NRA Basic Pistol?

 

OK, I'll be the one to ask, why doesn't the NRA Basic Pistol match the emergency rules.

 

And, I'm not biting on the minimum class room hours argument either.

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Why would one not want to give a copy of one's DD214? I have given them for VA loans, vet's discounts when buying a car, to join the VFW and the CVMA, etc. It's not some secret document.

 

Hi, Smitty,

 

The big problem with DD214's going far and wide is that it's just one more chance for an identity thief. I'd have to go pull mine back out of my safe, but if I remember correctly, it has (at a minimum)

 

1: Full legal name

2: Home address of record

3: SSN (at least for us modern folk that went in after the military switched from using serial numbers to SSNs as identifiers).

 

The last guidance our VFW service officer got for folks when they ETS'ed was to take the DD214 down and register it at your local county courthouse but black out at least the SSN before you do, as from that day forward, it's a public document that ANYONE can go in and request a copy of, for no reason whatsoever.

 

Interestingly enough, the exact wording of my copy of the FCCA doesn't require a DD214 (unless they snuck it in somewhere else):

 

Section 75(i)

 

The Department shall accept 8 hours of training as completed toward the 16 hour training requirement under this Section, if the applicant is an active, retired, or honorably discharged member of the United States Armed Forces

 

To me, that means I could walk in with a drivers' license and my honorable discharge certificate, and I'd be good to go. I was completely unable to find the text "DD214" or "DD-214" anywhere in the FCCA.

 

Brian

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After my call to WCIA (Champaign CBS affiliate) news department, they ran a story saying some were upset with ISP due to lack of progress .The talked to Jon Bock of GSL about it. He was less Specific than I would have liked but did express some concern. The reporter did say at the end of the piece that ISP is going to have a press conference about this on Friday. More song and dance, at least the are going to say something. The silence is deafening.
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If they get 500 instructors certified and able to teach after 9/30

That leaves 13 weekends before they start accepting aplications.

If there are approximately 300,000 first year applicats.

No way everyone who wants to will get trained this year.

 

500 instructors at 13 weekends training every weekend with say

12 students at a time is 78,000

20 students at a time 156,000

 

Only way to fix is more instructors or there will be a lot of people left out of applying until next year.

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After my call to WCIA (Champaign CBS affiliate) news department, they ran a story saying some were upset with ISP due to lack of progress .The talked to Jon Bock of GSL about it. He was less Specific than I would have liked but did express some concern. The reporter did say at the end of the piece that ISP is going to have a press conference about this on Friday. More song and dance, at least the are going to say something. The silence is deafening.

 

well done wacker

 

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/modelers-corner/29047d1335823003-building-tamiya-missouri-super-detailing-bravo-zulu.jpg

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After my call to WCIA (Champaign CBS affiliate) news department, they ran a story saying some were upset with ISP due to lack of progress .The talked to Jon Bock of GSL about it. He was less Specific than I would have liked but did express some concern. The reporter did say at the end of the piece that ISP is going to have a press conference about this on Friday. More song and dance, at least the are going to say something. The silence is deafening.

 

If that is in fact the case, wonder if they will field questions. Maybe we could get a flurry of questions out to news agencies to ask if so. I can't believe they will do it before the orals though, I doubt they want any public statements to be used against them.

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This leads to a question. What am I going to have to actually do with my DD214? My DD214 is barely legible and I'm sure a copy of it will be invisible. If an instructor just verifies it, great. If I have to send a copy, I may be out of luck. (perhaps the federal government will get a new one to me faster than the ISP issues permits, but that remains to be seen)
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After my call to WCIA (Champaign CBS affiliate) news department, they ran a story saying some were upset with ISP due to lack of progress .The talked to Jon Bock of GSL about it. He was less Specific than I would have liked but did express some concern. The reporter did say at the end of the piece that ISP is going to have a press conference about this on Friday. More song and dance, at least the are going to say something. The silence is deafening.

 

Ya, and the ONLY reason we are hearing anything is because of Todd, Molly/V and all of us calling and sending letters to our reps, otherwise they wouldn't have said squat.

 

Thanks to all you guys who help put the pressure on... I hope they do have "hundreds" out on the 30th and it's not just a stall tactic to buy them some more time and sidestep the limelight. I am not inclined to cut them any slack at this point....

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If they get 500 instructors certified and able to teach after 9/30

That leaves 13 weekends before they start accepting aplications.

If there are approximately 300,000 first year applicats.

No way everyone who wants to will get trained this year.

 

500 instructors at 13 weekends training every weekend with say

12 students at a time is 78,000

20 students at a time 156,000

 

Only way to fix is more instructors or there will be a lot of people left out of applying until next year.

 

FYI:

Many instructors will work weekdays as well.

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