SCOTUS: Scalia on 2A

[jd11201]

Mods: Not certain if this belongs in national "Judicial" or "Politics", please move as necessary.

 

Scalia spoke before more than 300 people in Bozeman in a gathering sponsored by the Federalist Society, which he helped launch more than 30 years ago to fight the perception of liberal bias at the nation's law schools:

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-221932818.html

 

Scalia answered some questions written by the audience, including a hot-button issue in Montana: the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms.

 

"What remains to be determined ... appears to be the scope of the armament that people can keep and bear," he said. "Can they bear shoulder-fired rocket launchers?"

 

He said the court will have to take those cases as they come, but his approach will be to apply the historical understanding of the Second Amendment, which was not just in self-defense against animals and home intruders, but for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical leader.

 

Would appear that he is favorably disposed to the idea that the 2A continues beyond the boundries of one's "home" (i.e., "animals" and "tyrannical leader").

[RockerXX]

Sounds like he might enjoy hearing an NFA challenge...

[Patriots & Tyrants]

Sounds like he might enjoy hearing an NFA challenge...

 

I agree; I would love to see a challenge to the NFA...man having a SBR, fully automatic, suppressed AR-15 without tax stamps just seems like...freedom.

[TyGuy]

Aye

[borgranta]

Sounds like he might enjoy hearing an NFA challenge...

 

I agree; I would love to see a challenge to the NFA...man having a SBR, fully automatic, suppressed AR-15 without tax stamps just seems like...freedom.

These tax stamps are in the same category as poll taxes.

[GAS3987]

Though I personally would find it expensive to feed a full auto, I do think that it is within the constitution for us to own them. Among many other things that should be untaxed and unregulated.

[BigJim]

"What remains to be determined ... appears to be the scope of the armament that people can keep and bear," he said. "Can they bear shoulder-fired rocket launchers?"

 

He said the court will have to take those cases as they come, but his approach will be to apply the historical understanding of the Second Amendment, which was not just in self-defense against animals and home intruders, but for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical leader.

 

Sounds like he could be open to the argument that given the "historical understanding of the second amendment" one could have shoulder-fired rocket launchers (not that I could afford one)!

[TyGuy]

They're cheap, it's the ammo that's expensive.

[dutz]

Sounds like he could be open to the argument that given the "historical understanding of the second amendment" one could have shoulder-fired rocket launchers (not that I could afford one)!

They're cheap, it's the ammo that's expensive.

 

And I hear Walmart is always out.

[THE KING]

Sounds like he might enjoy hearing an NFA challenge...

 

I know I would

[Mastiff]

FWIW. I wish an NFA challenge would happen, but I think quashing all these AWB's and magazine limits should be the next step (although I wouldn't object if they considered the NFA and AWB's simultaneously).

[supprmann]

Mods: Not certain if this belongs in national "Judicial" or "Politics", please move as necessary.

 

Scalia spoke before more than 300 people in Bozeman in a gathering sponsored by the Federalist Society, which he helped launch more than 30 years ago to fight the perception of liberal bias at the nation's law schools:

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-221932818.html

 

Scalia answered some questions written by the audience, including a hot-button issue in Montana: the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms.

 

"What remains to be determined ... appears to be the scope of the armament that people can keep and bear," he said. "Can they bear shoulder-fired rocket launchers?"

 

He said the court will have to take those cases as they come, but his approach will be to apply the historical understanding of the Second Amendment, which was not just in self-defense against animals and home intruders, but for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical leader.

 

Would appear that he is favorably disposed to the idea that the 2A continues beyond the boundries of one's "home" (i.e., "animals" and "tyrannical leader").

 

Looks like Judge Posner and he share views with respect to the historical understanding.......

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Sounds like he might enjoy hearing an NFA challenge...

 

I agree; I would love to see a challenge to the NFA...man having a SBR, fully automatic, suppressed AR-15 without tax stamps just seems like...freedom.

+1, though I would prefer a burst instead

[GTX63]

They're cheap, it's the ammo that's expensive.

 

Just have to learn to reload I suppose.

[TyGuy]

It's nice to hear Scalia's take, but a single judge does not a majority make.

[jd11201]

Agreed, Scalia does not a majority make, but it may be indicative of what types of cases will be granted Cert...

 

"What remains to be determined ... appears to be the scope of the armament that people can keep and bear," he said.

 

Does anyone see "may issue" verus "shall issue" in that? (i.e., MD [Woollard v. Sheridan], NJ [Drake v. Filko], NY [Kachalsky v. Cacace])

 

The situation in Hawaii/Wash DC for CC?

[TyGuy]

Granting a case cert that is doomed to be ruled against us only hurts our position.

[tkroenlein]

Granting a case cert that is doomed to be ruled against us only hurts our position.

 

Agreed. Much too broad as well.

[lockman]

It's nice to hear Scalia's take, but a single judge does not a majority make.

 

Obviously you are not from Chicago.

[TyGuy]

Nice

[miztic]

Are there currently any NFA cases working their way through the system?

If one of those actually prevails, it'll be REALLY difficult to justify an AWB as constitutional. we'll finally be where things should be.

 

"Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people." -- Tench Coxe

[oneshot]

Thinking about changing my avatar to reflect the emphasis I'd like to put on defending the right to keep and bear self-loading rifles. It's a man weeping as he watches the Nazi's march into Paris in 1940.

 

http://www.archives.gov/research/military/ww2/photos/images/thumbnails/ww2-81-l.jpg

[Patriots & Tyrants]

Though I personally would find it expensive to feed a full auto, I do think that it is within the constitution for us to own them. Among many other things that should be untaxed and unregulated.

 

I would have to think if getting a fully automatic AR-15 was as simple as getting a Semi-Automatic AR-15 most companies would offer both and you would see a huge explosion in sales, along with a huge price drop of fully automatic firearms. I could see a LE-6920 costing $1,300.00 and the full auto version costing only 200-300 more...that would be pretty damn neat. Expensive to shoot (the fun switch probably wouldn't come into play most times I went to shoot) but lots of fun.

[jagt48]

Though I personally would find it expensive to feed a full auto, I do think that it is within the constitution for us to own them. Among many other things that should be untaxed and unregulated.

 

I would have to think if getting a fully automatic AR-15 was as simple as getting a Semi-Automatic AR-15 most companies would offer both and you would see a huge explosion in sales, along with a huge price drop of fully automatic firearms. I could see a LE-6920 costing $1,300.00 and the full auto version costing only 200-300 more...that would be pretty damn neat. Expensive to shoot (the fun switch probably wouldn't come into play most times I went to shoot) but lots of fun.

 

From what I understand this is exactly how it was in the '70s/80s.

[RockerXX]

and the full auto version costing only 200-300 more...

 

Besides a hyped selling point there is no reason it should cost any more... OK maybe it could cost a few dollars more to cover the sear and drilling of the other pin hole, or making a drop in sear... No reason for a 25% price difference if it was legal and not taxed...

[xbaltzx]

Are there currently any NFA cases working their way through the system?

If one of those actually prevails, it'll be REALLY difficult to justify an AWB as constitutional. we'll finally be where things should be.

 

"Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people." -- Tench Coxe

 

 

I would like to know if NFA (machine guns and SBRs) are considered "in common use" despite the limited inventory.

[defaultdotxbe]

Are there currently any NFA cases working their way through the system?

If one of those actually prevails, it'll be REALLY difficult to justify an AWB as constitutional. we'll finally be where things should be.

 

"Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people." -- Tench Coxe

 

 

I would like to know if NFA (machine guns and SBRs) are considered "in common use" despite the limited inventory.

it could be argued they fell out of "common use" due to excessive regulation and taxation

 

You cant really go by "common use" when the government has spent the last 80 years telling you what you can and cant use

[Federal Farmer]

I think they'd be in common use for us peons had the NFA not been enacted and especially the provision in FOPA that bans new made machine guns. Can you really rule that the NFA and Hughes Amendment are Constitutional because machine guns are not in common when they're not common due to those very laws?

 

Also, I favor including LEO use with non-LEO use when considering what is "in common use" for many reasons.

[miztic]

Are there currently any NFA cases working their way through the system?

If one of those actually prevails, it'll be REALLY difficult to justify an AWB as constitutional. we'll finally be where things should be.

 

"Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people." -- Tench Coxe

 

 

I would like to know if NFA (machine guns and SBRs) are considered "in common use" despite the limited inventory.

it could be argued they fell out of "common use" due to excessive regulation and taxation

 

You cant really go by "common use" when the government has spent the last 80 years telling you what you can and cant use

 

I think the large inventories of these in police and military use still counts as 'in common use'

 

edit: I also think, if one of the purposes of the 2A is to protect us from a tyrannical leader, then the [small] arms that keep us on par with the leader's security forces are explicitly protected.

[RockerXX]

edit: I also think, if one of the purposes of the 2A is to protect us from a tyrannical leader, then the [small] arms that keep us on par with the leader's security forces are explicitly protected.

 

That is the way I feel, anything less defeats the defense that is to be protected...