TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 11:30 AM Posted July 10, 2013 at 11:30 AM Now that HB183 is law and all handgun laws are the same statewide FOID carry (unloaded, in a "case", with a valid FOID card) is the law throughout IL. I hope more will do it until they they get their CCW permit. Yes I know you could still get hassled by local law enforcement, but it is the law, no special carveouts left.
cavtrpr Posted July 10, 2013 at 11:50 AM Posted July 10, 2013 at 11:50 AM Yea, I have been thinking the same thing. carry unloaded in a zip up case on your belt! i am far from being a lawyer so what kind of railroad job would they get you on for doing this? with illinois having a legal system that has always done pretty much as they please i was just wondering!
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 11:54 AM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 11:54 AM Well, I've been carrying as such for years. Others have been arrested for it, but no one has ever been convicted for it. If you do some searching here I've discussed it before and posted links to the relavant cases. Unfortunately I can't regurgitate said information right now. It won't help in direct confrontation, but it will help in a Lane Bryant style massacre.
Double-J Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:00 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:00 PM Interesting idea. Just wondering, does "on your person" come into play as far as transportation is concerned, even unloaded? Because you have to have a mag with it somewhere close by or it does no good. Just some thoughts on this fine morning before a fund raising golf outing.
Joebie Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:06 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:06 PM I just bought a small gun vault ...
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM The magazine may be loaded and in the same case as the firearm. Also, keep in mind that this part of the law was talked about during hearings. We have the legislative intent, and the letter of the law, to allow FOID carry. This is what they wanted instead of CCW on public transport, so it's not just me blowing smoke. This is what they wanted, so have at it.
C0untZer0 Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:13 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:13 PM Also called "container carry" for FOID holders... FOID carry has usually meant concealed carry - with the FOID card being the CWP.
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:16 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 12:16 PM Potato, potahto. I explained what it was in the first post.
mobrules Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:37 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:37 PM If it was unloaded in a briefcase or say a backpack would that still be considered a container? Foid, and magazine kept in a different part of the backpack. Ty, can you explain a little more about post #6. I wasnt able to watch everything and dont recall seeing anything about that. I guess I dont mean public transportation as much as someone walking around with a briefcase. Unloaded and magazine in another part of the case. I dont quite understand the difference between public transport and my street.
GldRush98 Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:41 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:41 PM Interesting idea. Just wondering, does "on your person" come into play as far as transportation is concerned, even unloaded? Because you have to have a mag with it somewhere close by or it does no good. Just some thoughts on this fine morning before a fund raising golf outing.Yes, a gun is still a weapon, loaded or unloaded.I would NOT carry a gun on my person at all right now. In the car, that's a different story. As long as it is cased and inaccessible to the driver.
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:49 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:49 PM It was discussed in regards to public transportation. CCW to the bus, unload and encase, get on the bus, ride the bus, get off the bus, loadup and CCW. That is what the ILGA wanted. GldRush - you don't have to, but it HAS been the law (subject to home rule) and now it is the pre-emptive law. You're good to go legally. Of course some cops might bust you for it, but you'll win, and maybe even get a wrongful arrest lawsuit to boot.
Mack Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:53 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 01:53 PM You can legally with a Foid card transport a firearm, so long as said firearm is unloaded and encased in a bag, purse, fanny pack, backpack, briefcase, etc... A magazine or speedloader may be transported legally with the gun in the same container so long as the gun is unloaded. Before the current law was passed there was legal precedent supporting this type of transport/carry and the current law strengthens it. Thousands of people transport like this everyday.
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:05 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:05 PM You can legally with a Foid card transport a firearm, so long as said firearm is unloaded and encased in a bag, purse, fanny pack, backpack, briefcase, etc... A magazine or speedloader may be transported legally with the gun in the same container so long as the gun is unloaded. Before the current law was passed there was legal precedent supporting this type of transport/carry and the current law strengthens it. Thousands of people transport like this everyday.Uh huh, yip yip yip yip
tchostler Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:07 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:07 PM The Wildlife Code is the most restrictive of the "Case" definition. "A container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow....". There are cases/backpacks that have a built-in holster for a firearm as well as purses for women which I believe would qualify. Even placing your case in a backpack would seem to me to meet the requirements, but best to contact a lawyer.
Elderberry Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:10 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:10 PM If it was unloaded in a briefcase or say a backpack would that still be considered a container? In Illinois vs Diggins the Illinois Supreme Court ruled that your car's console was a case as long as the lid was closed. It would seem like the Illinois Supreme's are willing to take a pretty broad approach to the definition of "case". I have been known to "transport" in my truck. But I've always been concerned more about how a court would interpret my "intent" with "transporting" a weapon when I was simply "transporting" it around with me all day long on my person rather than taking it to a specific destination. But, undeniably, no one has yet been convicted of violating any Illinois law when doing this. Now my concern is if some states attorney wants to make a statement by taking the position that since we now have a carry law trying to "skirt" that law by "transporting" isn't going to get it. I would be very concerned about that in certain northern portions of the state.
soundguy Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:15 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:15 PM The Wildlife Code is the most restrictive of the "Case" definition. "A container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow....". . I believe the Wildlife Code was amended to to bring it into compliance with other code after Diggins. ISP FAQ says: In order to comply with the Criminal Code, the Wildlife Code, and the Firearm Owner’s Identification Act, when transporting a firearm, it must be:broken down in a non-functioning state; ornot immediately accessible; orunloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card.
Hatchet Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:16 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:16 PM The Wildlife Code is the most restrictive of the "Case" definition. "A container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow....". There are cases/backpacks that have a built-in holster for a firearm as well as purses for women which I believe would qualify. Even placing your case in a backpack would seem to me to meet the requirements, but best to contact a lawyer. Negative. If I remember correctly Todd took care of that last season. The wild life code now mimics state code and says container.
tchostler Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:22 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:22 PM The Wildlife Code is the most restrictive of the "Case" definition. "A container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow....". There are cases/backpacks that have a built-in holster for a firearm as well as purses for women which I believe would qualify. Even placing your case in a backpack would seem to me to meet the requirements, but best to contact a lawyer. Negative. If I remember correctly Todd took care of that last season. The wild life code now mimics state code and says container.News to me, but glad to hear that. Does the center console have to have a lock on it and wouldn't a console be too easily accessible to comply with the law?
Elderberry Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:25 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:25 PM Does the center console have to have a lock on it and wouldn't a console be too easily accessible to comply with the law? Nope... Google Illinois vs Diggins.... It just has to have the lid closed....
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:28 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:28 PM Wildlife does mirror state code I believe. Elbderberry, I posted an IL court case where the judge discussed how you could transport through town, without having to go from on especific location to another. Or maybe it was talked about in the Diggins case? Unfortunately I don't have the time today to search.
tchostler Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:28 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:28 PM Does the center console have to have a lock on it and wouldn't a console be too easily accessible to comply with the law? Nope... Google Illinois vs Diggins.... It just has to have the lid closed....Great. Wasn't a guy arrested a few years ago in a mall in IL with his handgun in a fanny pack? Whatever happened to him?
GldRush98 Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:28 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:28 PM GldRush - you don't have to, but it HAS been the law (subject to home rule) and now it is the pre-emptive law. You're good to go legally. Of course some cops might bust you for it, but you'll win, and maybe even get a wrongful arrest lawsuit to boot.Some? More like all.Go ahead and call up the PD for the town you live in and ask to speak to a patrol officer. Ask what they would do in this situation.Note: I am referring to on my person (fanny pack), not in a briefcase or something like that. Briefcase/bag is ok legally. You'll probably still get hassled, but you'll be in a lot better shape legally if the gun is not on your person.
Elderberry Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:29 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:29 PM And, Yes, Todd fixed the wildlife code "case" issue. But here is another one from the wildlife code. I suppose some goofy SA could pose the argument that "by any other means of transportation whatsoever" does not include "walking around on your person" under the wildlife code. But I don't think they would get far with that.... But my point is that Illinois has a hodge-podge of laws and regulations and there are a lot of twists and turns and blind corners in this state... (520 ILCS 5/1.2p) (from Ch. 61, par. 1.2p) Sec. 1.2p. "Transport" or "ship" means to convey by means of parcel post, express, freight baggage or shipment by common carrier of any description; or by automobile, motorcycle, or other vehicle of any kind; or by water or aircraft of any kind or by any other means of transportation whatsoever. (Source: P.A. 81-382.)
C0untZer0 Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:29 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:29 PM OK, tomato tomahto - but I've still heard it referred to as container carry more often than anything else. Yes I've been doing it, I decided to try the 5.11 Select Carry Pistol Pouch. My R9 sits in there with a loaded mag and I buckle it on when I go out. http://illinoiscarry...&hl=packs&st=30
Elderberry Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:33 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:33 PM Yes, Ty, I remember when you posted that.... tchostler: yes, that did happen. he was a concealed carry activist and was making a point if I remember right. charges were eventually dropped. My understanding is the charges were dropped because the "powers that be" did not want to risk that case going to the Illinois Supreme's and getting a ruling that it was okay to "transport" that way -- which would have gave us a way around Uuw....
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:33 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:33 PM GldRush - you don't have to, but it HAS been the law (subject to home rule) and now it is the pre-emptive law. You're good to go legally. Of course some cops might bust you for it, but you'll win, and maybe even get a wrongful arrest lawsuit to boot.Some? More like all.Go ahead and call up the PD for the town you live in and ask to speak to a patrol officer. Ask what they would do in this situation.Note: I am referring to on my person (fanny pack), not in a briefcase or something like that. Briefcase/bag is ok legally. You'll probably still get hassled, but you'll be in a lot better shape legally if the gun is not on your person.I know officers that won't arrest normal folks for carrying loaded in a holster. It depends on the officer you encounter. YES, you might get arrested for FOID carry, but it is completely legal now. No local ordinances to worry about. If you don't want to take advantage of the law then don't.
TyGuy Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:34 PM Author Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:34 PM There are at least 4 cases that have worked out for the citizenry in regards to container carry/transport. SAKDigginsHorstman*the lady in the courthouse....ummmm I forget her name*
tchostler Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:37 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:37 PM OK, tomato tomahto - but I've still heard it referred to as container carry more often than anything else. Yes I've been doing it, I decided to try the 5.11 Select Carry Pistol Pouch. My R9 sits in there with a loaded mag and I buckle it on when I go out. http://illinoiscarry...&hl=packs&st=30That's what I'm talking about...but wouldn't that be a dead giveaway that you are carrying a gun, unless you have grey hair and a cane?
C0untZer0 Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:40 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:40 PM I haven't had anyone say anything or even give me an odd look.
Elderberry Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:42 PM Posted July 10, 2013 at 02:42 PM OK, tomato tomahto - but I've still heard it referred to as container carry more often than anything else. Yes I've been doing it, I decided to try the 5.11 Select Carry Pistol Pouch. My R9 sits in there with a loaded mag and I buckle it on when I go out. http://illinoiscarry...&hl=packs&st=30That's what I'm talking about...but wouldn't that be a dead giveaway that you are carrying a gun, unless you have grey hair and a cane? Well. Yes, No, Maybe.... You could be carrying a camera or you insulin -- or wearing an insulin pump for that matter. The fact that you have a case like that strapped around you does not constitute probable cause for a stop and search (if my memory serves -- it's been a long time)....
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.