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Illinois General Assembly 4/18/2013


mauserme

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Did any of you notice I'm not even going crazy? I knew this would happen ,but I figured we would have a few more votes.

 

We really have only 1 option, keep introducing 997 until the 9th...period. Get every single person who is on our side to agree to vote NO on ANY other bill, no matter what. if we don't hold the line we may as well give up now.

 

We cannot falter and must not ammend or give anything else. They are playing a last minute game and we have them on the ropes. Honestly, we do. If they want to play this game so be it, get the lawsuits ready and prepare for Constitutional Carry.

 

There is no reason to consider may-issue because constitutional carry will be the same thing for everyone except Cook.

 

Its time to play dirty, its the only thing they understand.

 

.

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Go for the injunction...

 

Get rid of Quinn and Madigan, problem solved....

 

The problem with that is Quinn will go with Lisa taking his place. Both Madigans need new jobs out of government.

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

I agree thats an unknown but at least you get FOID carry.... And Americans from out of state get constitutional carry :frantics:

 

What a mess.... I gotta say I knew this was gonna be really hard but this is really too much....

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Ok, I had some dinner and had a chance to get away from the computer after watching this all day so my stress headache would go away. It's far from over, but definitely feel deflated (like when the Cubs were 5 outs away from the World Series in 03), Working on a letter of thanks to Phelps because he is working his behind off. And as always thanks to Todd.

 

What's Phelp's email?

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Was disappointed with tonight's result but not surprised.

 

I imagine we are going to have to run down the clock and fight whatever garbage Chicago and Cook whip out. I predict lawsuits within days of their ordinances being passed. Maybe quicker even.

 

Upside? The prospect of no DTI and no gun signs on business doors having no legal weight isn't exactly unattractive . :)

 

If no law is passed we're gonna have an enormous mess.

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i just cannot see lil lisa not becoming involved in this..may be today was a test of our will..i for one am still in the dog fight and really with my job dont have a bone in this fight other that i want those lawful people in chicago the chance to protect themselves from street thugs

 

At this stage, in my opinion, the only test of our will is... will we give up even more... and how much more... I really think that we need to hold the line now. Play a little legislative chicken.

 

i am at that point..i think we compromised enuff..lets see what the honorable and distinguished members from chicago come up with and go from there...no way carry should be banned from the rta/cta though..thugs aint abiding by that law now which is the gist of what torques me off the most about this..law abiding has no defense from the criminal bangers and that just aint right

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Posner cannot do anything. The district court judges can, though, but only in response to an action filed within the district. It just depends on the judge. Some of them will drop the hammer because Lisa is the AG, she cannot plead ignorance and she is held to a MUCH higher standard than, say some SA from a county I've never heard of. Other judges (Myerscough) will just say "Tsk tsk, don't do this or I'll be forced to wag my finger at you again!"

 

I know why ILND is not being ordered to enter an injunction, so TECHNICALLY any jurisdiction falling within the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois (Eastern or Western Divisions) will not be enjoined from enforcing AUUW/UUW. That would be Chicago, Rockford, etc.

on the 9th doesnt posners original order get sent down to the lower courts and the state and then is put in place?

 

To the Southern and Central Districts (where Shepard and Moore originated), no action originated in ILND so nothing is remanded down to the court. I dunno how a reversal and remand works when it's state-wide for an action originating in one district. Illinois has three federal district courts, Colorado has one, Arizona has one, California has four, Missouri (I believe) has two. Just depends on the size of the state, how spread out the population is, etc. There used to be four districts in Illinois. Oh heck...gunshots at MIT, active shooter...right after all that stuff went down yesterday.

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Going back in time. Madigan did not want this to pass. Unless bluestream deletes it it will be there, but Madigan knew this wasn't going to pass ahead of time.

 

It started out with Phelps and amendment 9 after they withdrew amendments 1-8. Phelps said he would like to adopt his amendment and debate it on 3rd. Lang paused briefly and then said the amendment would be deabted and Phelps, perplexedly, accepted. He started to debate and then Lang interrupted and said that the amendment would be adopted and the bill moved to third. They did that and then the rest is played out.

 

I think Madigan wanted the amendment to go to vote, and once he knew the bill would not pass switched gears and moved the bill to third. Watch the beginning of it from bill introduction. I'm going off of memory, but it just dawned on e there could have been a bit of switch-a-roo at the onset.

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Well my phone is almost dead from refreshing this thread every minute and so is my tablet. Hoping TV posts soon. Want to know what to do. My reps are Franks and Tryon and voted yes.

 

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Todd was quoted in a newspaper tonight about today's setback. It's posted in another thread.

 

I don't know that there is anything more left to do, after reading Todd's article. I think it's either 7 more reps get on board or constitutional carry.

 

If you think we're PO'd, imagine what Phelps, Todd and everyone else who has sacrificed to get here feels like right now.

 

I'm sure their all working hard to resolve this.

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Was disappointed with tonight's result but not surprised.

 

I imagine we are going to have to run down the clock and fight whatever garbage Chicago and Cook whip out. I predict lawsuits within days of their ordinances being passed. Maybe quicker even.

 

Upside? The prospect of no DTI and no gun signs on business doors having no legal weight isn't exactly unattractive . :)

 

If no law is passed we're gonna have an enormous mess.

 

No DTI under constitutional carry in Illinois = you're gonna be guilty until proven innocent at a traffic stop = if the officer sees a firearm or suspects one, get a Glock jammed in your ear

Remember, these guys have NO TRAINING how to handle a carry permit holder. None at all. If I were a LEO conducting a traffic stop and it was "the wild west" I wouldn't be giving the guy I'm stopping the benefit of the doubt, he or she would get a faceful of service weapon.

The only way to mitigate that would be to get out your FOID card and hand it to the officer with your license and possibly a non-resident carry permit as well.

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Posner cannot do anything. The district court judges can, though, but only in response to an action filed within the district. It just depends on the judge. Some of them will drop the hammer because Lisa is the AG, she cannot plead ignorance and she is held to a MUCH higher standard than, say some SA from a county I've never heard of. Other judges (Myerscough) will just say "Tsk tsk, don't do this or I'll be forced to wag my finger at you again!"

 

I know why ILND is not being ordered to enter an injunction, so TECHNICALLY any jurisdiction falling within the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois (Eastern or Western Divisions) will not be enjoined from enforcing AUUW/UUW. That would be Chicago, Rockford, etc.

on the 9th doesnt posners original order get sent down to the lower courts and the state and then is put in place?

 

To the Southern and Central Districts (where Shepard and Moore originated), no action originated in ILND so nothing is remanded down to the court. I dunno how a reversal and remand works when it's state-wide for an action originating in one district. Illinois has three federal district courts, Colorado has one, Arizona has one, California has four, Missouri (I believe) has two. Just depends on the size of the state, how spread out the population is, etc. There used to be four districts in Illinois. Oh heck...gunshots at MIT, active shooter...right after all that stuff went down yesterday.

the mit thing was monday night after the bombings.according to "theblaze" even tho its happening tonight.http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/18/mit-reports-gunshots-on-campus-police-officer-may-be-down/
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Guys

 

I just bought property in Missouri and close on it in June.

 

I already have an illinois carry permit

 

But, I am not giving up. We need to stand together and stand behind Todd, the ISRA and Illinois Carry.

 

It may come to constitutional carry in June but let's decide that together as a team and helping our leadership to get it done.

 

Nothing worthwhile is easy

 

I am unwavering and will stand behind us all till the bitter end.

 

WE CAN DO THIS!!!

 

I agree and I'm not ready to give up yet. We've still got time to get a good bill before June 9th. I have faith in Todd and Brandon to get this thing done.

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I agree and I'm not ready to give up yet. We've still got time to get a good bill before June 9th. I have faith in Todd and Brandon to get this thing done.

 

I agree. I just hope they walk away for a bit. We really shouldn't be compromising anymore then we already have. As far as I am concerned the ball is in THEIR court now... Put up or shut up. Our side has already proven that we can kill their crap bills. Maybe if they want to avoid Constitutional Carry, they can present something acceptable TO US.

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i just cannot see lil lisa not becoming involved in this..may be today was a test of our will..i for one am still in the dog fight and really with my job dont have a bone in this fight other that i want those lawful people in chicago the chance to protect themselves from street thugs

 

At this stage, in my opinion, the only test of our will is... will we give up even more... and how much more... I really think that we need to hold the line now. Play a little legislative chicken.

 

Agreed. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, let them stew in their own stupidity.

 

IMHO, on June 9, we (in most cases and areas) arguably end up with more freedome, in most places, than we have in HB997, while the antis end up with far, far less. also realize that a lot of people that are carrying will be nipping in and out of a home rule restricted area still carrying. it's human nature. LEOs statewide are going to be p***** with having to deal with all this stuff, the calls from nervous types reacting to the more open carry sightings, with most of the line officers in the restricted areas being uninterested in going out of their way in order to make life tougher on a regular citizen carrying, not to mention making it hard on themselves, paperwork-wise.

 

One other thing. . . . . . control. The antis aren't just in Cook/Chicago, they're everywhere, to one degree or another. I predict it will drive them absolutely crazy not being able to butt in and tell someone else how to run their lives. Having blocked our version of the carry bill, they wake up June 9th to see people putting a pistol on their hip and going to the store? News stories and photos of regular citizens carrying day after day without squaring off in gunfights?? They won't be able to stand it.

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Let's not forget the games that Madigan likes to play.

 

I say we call his bluff.

Again, hold 997 until June 7th and then let the chips fall where they may...

 

 

Edit - to SOME of the new members.

 

Knock off the bad mouthing. Some of these people have been at this for 10 years and we're only this close because of their hard work and dedication. What were you doing while they were fighting for your rights?

Frankly, I'm worn out with "they should do this or that". If you have all the answers, run for office.

You're either in this for the duration or not - make up your mind.

 

Some of us "new members" have been at it longer than that! :getlost: Just because someone is new to this forum doesn't mean they are new to this fight. But, that doesn't mean them or the people with 5000 useless posts should be bad mouhting Phelps or any of the other reps that voted yes on this bill.

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Tonights vote definitely was not expected by a lot of people, including Lang. did you see the pause he took after, have all voted who wish, it's like he waited for some of the no or present votes to switch to yes. Similar to when they harass a new legislator or a bill debated in jest. It's like he didn't know whether to call to the clerk to take the record or see what Madigan wanted to do. It was an awkward silence that normally isn't there.

As I was watching I was thinking the same thing.

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Let's not forget the games that Madigan likes to play.

 

I say we call his bluff.

Again, hold 997 until June 7th and then let the chips fall where they may...

 

 

Edit - to SOME of the new members.

 

Knock off the bad mouthing. Some of these people have been at this for 10 years and we're only this close because of their hard work and dedication. What were you doing while they were fighting for your rights?

Frankly, I'm worn out with "they should do this or that". If you have all the answers, run for office.

You're either in this for the duration or not - make up your mind.

 

Some of us "new members" have been at it longer than that! :getlost: Just because someone is new to this forum doesn't mean they are new to this fight. But, that doesn't mean them or the people with 5000 useless posts should be bad mouhting Phelps or any of the other reps that voted yes on this bill.

how can he bring a bill back on june 7th when there not in session at that time?
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Before CFP, if you shot somebody in self defense you were never charged, or charges were dropped before your court date. This was done by Chicago to avoid losing in court and setting a precedent.

 

Chicago will continue this MOP with people who are concealed carrying after June 9th to avoid losing any court cases. Slight inconvenience, soon they will be whistling and looking the other way.

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