lockman Posted October 27, 2010 at 05:16 PM Share Posted October 27, 2010 at 05:16 PM http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdfPossession of pistols by non-residentsMCL 28.432 makes it legal for non-residents of Michigan who hold valid CPLs issued by another state to possess a non-concealed pistol in Michigan without complying with Michigan’s pistol registration requirements. Additionally, MCL 28.422 exempts residents of other states from Michigan’s pistol registration requirements therefore, allowing them to possess a pistol in Michigan, if all of the following requirements are met: 1. The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol,2. The person is in possession of the license while in Michigan,3. The person owns the pistol possessed in Michigan,4. The person possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as defined in MCL 750.231a, and5. The person is in Michigan less than 180 days and does not intend to establish residency here. A non-resident must present the license issued by his or her state of residence to a police officer upon demand. Failure to do so is a 90-day misdemeanor. When transporting a firearm in Michigan, non-residents must transport pistols in compliance with MCL 750.231a (discussed above in the Transporting Firearms section), unless they have a concealed pistol license issued by their state of residence. The MSP have finally relented after they have lost every legal argument that a CPL requires concealment and that non-CPL including non-residents of MI may open carry as the above conditions are met. FOID qualifies, but residents of WI or VT would not as there are no state issued permits of any type for firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbaltzx Posted October 27, 2010 at 06:12 PM Share Posted October 27, 2010 at 06:12 PM 1. The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol, So I could have a FOID card from IL and openly carry a pistol in Michigan assuming I fulfill the other 4 requirements? The way that the FOID card is setup in IL it seems to function like a license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted October 27, 2010 at 07:09 PM Share Posted October 27, 2010 at 07:09 PM 1. The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol, So I could have a FOID card from IL and openly carry a pistol in Michigan assuming I fulfill the other 4 requirements? The way that the FOID card is setup in IL it seems to function like a license.you need the FOID card to purchase and transport... so i see it as qualifying for rule 1... but the real question is does the state consider it to follow rule number 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted October 27, 2010 at 09:49 PM Share Posted October 27, 2010 at 09:49 PM This is not written like IOWA's It says The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol,Since FOID doesnt allow us to carry I dont see how this would work. Now it would be cool if we could carry on our UTAH or PA but it says state of residence. So I dont see how this law helps us. It is great for them however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Johnson Posted October 27, 2010 at 09:57 PM Share Posted October 27, 2010 at 09:57 PM 1. The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol,another way to read that...purchase, transport, OR (not AND) carry. IL FOID allows purchase and transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbaltzx Posted October 28, 2010 at 05:32 PM Share Posted October 28, 2010 at 05:32 PM 1. The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol,another way to read that...purchase, transport, OR (not AND) carry. IL FOID allows purchase and transport. The OR is what stood out for me. I would not take on the risk though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted October 28, 2010 at 05:38 PM Share Posted October 28, 2010 at 05:38 PM i have an e-mail into the MSP that i sent when i read this yesterday... hopefully i will get a response back soon and have a clear answer on what the MSP say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted October 28, 2010 at 07:34 PM Share Posted October 28, 2010 at 07:34 PM i just got the following response Mr. Derbas, In Michigan, non-residents may possess (not concealed) a pistol inMichigan if they are licensed by their state of residence to purchase,carry, or transport a pistol, MCL 28.422. As a result, an Illinoisresident can possess a pistol in Michigan if they have an IllinoisFirearm Owner's Identification Card (FOID Card). In order to lawfullydo so, the person must possess their FOID Card while in Michigan,present it to a police officer upon demand, possess the pistol only forlawful purposes, and they must be the owner of the pistol. You do not have a license to carry a concealed pistol, therefore, youmust carry the pistol visible and non-concealed. Michigan has statutesthat prohibit possession of a firearm in certain areas, MCL 750.234d andMCL 750.237a. The above list is not intended to be an exhaustive listof the premises upon which possession of a firearm is prohibited. Irecommend that you research Michigan laws regarding the areas you willbe visiting. Additionally, when transporting a pistol in Michigan, it must beunloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in thetrunk of a vehicle or if no trunk, not readily accessible to theoccupants of the vehicle, MCL 750.231a. Per Michigan law, a pistolcarried in the interior of a vehicle is always considered concealed, MCL750.227. The following are links to the above mentioned statutes for yourreview: MCL 28.422http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cuh13fuo1lbiu5ioep4qx445))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-28-422.pdf MCL 750.231ahttp://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cuh13fuo1lbiu5ioep4qx445))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-231a.pdf MCL 750.234dhttp://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cuh13fuo1lbiu5ioep4qx445))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-234d.pdf MCL 750.237ahttp://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(emtshr55shfeft450p04fx55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-237a.pdf MCL 750.227http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(emtshr55shfeft450p04fx55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-227.pdf Sincerely, Sergeant Aimee MaikeTraining and Standards DivisionMichigan State Police7426 N. Canal RoadLansing, MI 48913(517) 636-6031 so there you go... with the FOID card we can open carry in MI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol'Coach Posted October 28, 2010 at 08:07 PM Share Posted October 28, 2010 at 08:07 PM Additionally, when transporting a pistol in Michigan, it must beunloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in thetrunk of a vehicle or if no trunk, not readily accessible to theoccupants of the vehicle, MCL 750.231a. Per Michigan law, a pistolcarried in the interior of a vehicle is always considered concealed, MCL750.227. Doesn't that mean, open carry only while outside the vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted October 28, 2010 at 08:13 PM Share Posted October 28, 2010 at 08:13 PM Additionally, when transporting a pistol in Michigan, it must beunloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in thetrunk of a vehicle or if no trunk, not readily accessible to theoccupants of the vehicle, MCL 750.231a. Per Michigan law, a pistolcarried in the interior of a vehicle is always considered concealed, MCL750.227. Doesn't that mean, open carry only while outside the vehicle? yea... open carry can not carry in vehicle.. u need CC license to carry in vehicle... bummer i know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted October 28, 2010 at 09:56 PM Share Posted October 28, 2010 at 09:56 PM Doesnt that just piss you off! Foid only exists in Illinois and is not good to carry in Illinois but good to OC in another state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctman800 Posted October 29, 2010 at 07:18 AM Share Posted October 29, 2010 at 07:18 AM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieut89 Posted October 29, 2010 at 12:22 PM Share Posted October 29, 2010 at 12:22 PM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim. I would have to think that unless your motorcycle has an actual "interior", you would be good to go. The intent appears to be that, when you are in a car or truck, there are many places to "conceal" a loaded handgun within an accessible reach. Carrying openly on your motorcycle, the gun would still be in plain view and not be concealed at all. Per Michigan law, a pistolcarried in the interior of a vehicle is always considered concealed, MCL750.227. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted October 29, 2010 at 01:18 PM Share Posted October 29, 2010 at 01:18 PM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim.Sergeant Aimee Maike, Thank you again on your previous response. As i was mentioning this to a friend a new question came up. How should we handle the firearms if we are traveling on a motorcycle. I tried to find something from the state police website, but was unable to locate where it conforms to firearms and motorcycles. Thank you again for your time and help,Joe i'll let yall know if i get a response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctman800 Posted October 29, 2010 at 01:22 PM Share Posted October 29, 2010 at 01:22 PM Thanks much, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted October 29, 2010 at 04:53 PM Share Posted October 29, 2010 at 04:53 PM so there you go... with the FOID card we can open carry in MI Thanks for the info. Very interesting. However, I still find any carry that excludes vehicles basically worthless. Basically, it's like WI is currently for their residents. Open carry, but the restrictions make it too cumbersome to even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted October 30, 2010 at 02:52 AM Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 at 02:52 AM so there you go... with the FOID card we can open carry in MI Thanks for the info. Very interesting. However, I still find any carry that excludes vehicles basically worthless. Basically, it's like WI is currently for their residents. Open carry, but the restrictions make it too cumbersome to even try. But it will take those who choose to carry in spite of the onerous restrictions to show how illogical the vehicle prohibition is. Vehicle carry has always been a round-a-bout way to severely restrict the right to carry. By removing the most practical transport means the state also severely limits the exercise of a right . Driving may be a privilege, but you do not lose your other rights just because you drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted October 30, 2010 at 12:26 PM Share Posted October 30, 2010 at 12:26 PM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim. I would have to think that unless your motorcycle has an actual "interior", you would be good to go. The intent appears to be that, when you are in a car or truck, there are many places to "conceal" a loaded handgun within an accessible reach. Carrying openly on your motorcycle, the gun would still be in plain view and not be concealed at all. Per Michigan law, a pistolcarried in the interior of a vehicle is always considered concealed, MCL750.227. I would ask for clarification from the MSP about the open carry on a motorcycle. If you do receive word it is legal to do so, I would carry this correspondence with me on that trip. I could very easily see a cop believing that sitting on a motorcycle is the same as sitting in the interior of a vehicle. There are enterprising and/or zealous cops that will still site you and let the courts figure it out. Reading it again..... Per Michigan law, a pistolcarried in the interior of a vehicle is always considered concealed, MCL750.227. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctman800 Posted October 30, 2010 at 02:39 PM Share Posted October 30, 2010 at 02:39 PM It seems that the people who write laws forget about we who use a motorcycle as transportation, and not just a "Sunday ride." Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted October 30, 2010 at 03:30 PM Share Posted October 30, 2010 at 03:30 PM as soon as i get a response u will be the first to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted October 30, 2010 at 05:11 PM Share Posted October 30, 2010 at 05:11 PM It seems that the people who write laws forget about we who use a motorcycle as transportation, and not just a "Sunday ride." Jim. That's VERY true. The only time they DO remember us is when some kid dies in a motorcycle crash. Then they want a helmet law. [rant] They ignore the fact that it was his friend's bike, that he was an untrained/unskilled/UNLICENSED rider, that he was going 120 mph when a car turned in front of him and died of internal injuries. They ignore the fact that his noggin was untouched....without so much as a scratch or a bruise.....they still insist a helmet could have saved him. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted November 1, 2010 at 07:16 PM Share Posted November 1, 2010 at 07:16 PM no word on motor cycles yet... maybe the Sgt. aint on desk this week... who knows.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted November 1, 2010 at 09:46 PM Share Posted November 1, 2010 at 09:46 PM just got word... Mr. Derbas, Unfortunately, Michigan law does not provide guidance on how to legallytransport a pistol while traveling on a motorcycle. MCL 750.231a statesif the motor vehicle (which includes a motorcycle) does not have atrunk, the pistol must be unloaded, in a closed case designed for thestorage of firearms, and not readily accessible to the occupants. Thereare various arguments regarding whether or not a person could transporta pistol in or on a motorcycle and have it " not readily accessible tothe occupant." I am not aware of any Michigan appellate court decisionsregarding this issue. In instances such as this where the legality isnot certain, I must recommend that you consult the advise of privatelegal counsel regarding this issue. Sincerely, Sergeant Aimee MaikeTraining and Standards DivisionMichigan State Police7426 N. Canal RoadLansing, MI 48913(517) 636-6031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctman800 Posted November 2, 2010 at 01:16 PM Share Posted November 2, 2010 at 01:16 PM Hatchet; Thanks much for your help. Looks like I won't be adding Michigan to my list of states to visit. If I do go I will probably just use my Illinois transport method, in a case inside the saddlebag. Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted November 2, 2010 at 01:43 PM Share Posted November 2, 2010 at 01:43 PM no problem, glad i can help. but just becareful in doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smittyp83 Posted November 2, 2010 at 06:46 PM Share Posted November 2, 2010 at 06:46 PM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim. You could always go with something like this ... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/smittyp83/MotorcycleSeatTexas-style.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted November 2, 2010 at 07:21 PM Share Posted November 2, 2010 at 07:21 PM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim. You could always go with something like this ... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/smittyp83/MotorcycleSeatTexas-style.jpgThat is a must have. Please tell where to find something like that?!!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecker Posted November 2, 2010 at 07:24 PM Share Posted November 2, 2010 at 07:24 PM Hatchet: I have a question that I would like to clarify a little better. Since you have allready started a dialog with the MSP would you like to ask or I will contact them myself. What about open carry on a motorcycle? I have thought about a road trip up there but allways decide against it because of the non-carry issue. Jim. You could always go with something like this ... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/smittyp83/MotorcycleSeatTexas-style.jpg Drooling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted November 2, 2010 at 07:30 PM Share Posted November 2, 2010 at 07:30 PM officer i'm not carrying, my bike is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vezpa Posted November 3, 2010 at 07:46 PM Share Posted November 3, 2010 at 07:46 PM Strap the pistol to a leg holster outside your pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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