NRA-ILA Lobbied Against IL License to Carry Bill

[Buzzard]

...just maybe, the stance of the NRA has awakened large numbers of folks in Illinois as to what has to be done!

I hope you're right Coach, but sorry...I'm still not very optimistic about a "mass awakening."

 

I know quite a few small town gun folks that just can't get excited about gun rights.

 

And I have my doubts that Dr. Frankenstein himself could bring these bodies to life.

[Ol'Coach]

...just maybe, the stance of the NRA has awakened large numbers of folks in Illinois as to what has to be done!

I hope you're right Coach, but sorry...I'm still not very optimistic about a "mass awakening."

 

I know quite a few small town gun folks that just can't get excited about gun rights.

 

And I have my doubts that Dr. Frankenstein himself could bring these bodies to life.

 

Wouldn't expect Dr. Frankenstein to, but how 'bout you and me in our local communities?

 

We can, at the very least, make the attempt!

 

Can't wake 'em up? At least, we tired!

[Buzzard]

...just maybe, the stance of the NRA has awakened large numbers of folks in Illinois as to what has to be done!

I hope you're right Coach, but sorry...I'm still not very optimistic about a "mass awakening."

 

I know quite a few small town gun folks that just can't get excited about gun rights.

 

And I have my doubts that Dr. Frankenstein himself could bring these bodies to life.

 

Wouldn't expect Dr. Frankenstein to, but how 'bout you and me in our local communities?

 

We can, at the very least, make the attempt!

 

Can't wake 'em up? At least, we tired!

That's what I'm talking about.

I tried to get local gun owners to go to IGOLD....

 

I'm too busy....gotta work....too far away....

I would - but I'm just a big Fudd.

[Ol'Coach]

...just maybe, the stance of the NRA has awakened large numbers of folks in Illinois as to what has to be done!

I hope you're right Coach, but sorry...I'm still not very optimistic about a "mass awakening."

 

I know quite a few small town gun folks that just can't get excited about gun rights.

 

And I have my doubts that Dr. Frankenstein himself could bring these bodies to life.

 

Wouldn't expect Dr. Frankenstein to, but how 'bout you and me in our local communities?

 

We can, at the very least, make the attempt!

 

Can't wake 'em up? At least, we tried!

That's what I'm talking about.

I tried to get local gun owners to go to IGOLD....

 

I'm too busy....gotta work....too far away....

I would - but I'm just a big Fudd.

 

You got it, Buzzard!

 

"I have a trap shoot this weekend".

"I have a family reunion this weekend."

 

If all the people that give this excuse would just join in, it would already be done!!

 

A matter of priorities. I hate to say it, but, I reckon there aren't enough people in Illinois that feel defending the family is enough of a priority to make their voices heard.

 

Consider that a challenge!!

[Drylok]

UAB,

Thanks for the advise and the letter will be edited accordingly.

[Drylok]

I just realized I printed a non factual peice of info in my letter.

 

"I was wondering if you are aware that other states such as PA, NE and MO among others passed LTC bills that were "non pre-empt and now enjoy the right in every corner of their state"

 

Missouri was pre-empt wasn't it?

[bob]

I just realized I printed a non factual peice of info in my letter.

 

"I was wondering if you are aware that other states such as PA, NE and MO among others passed LTC bills that were "non pre-empt and now enjoy the right in every corner of their state"

 

Missouri was pre-empt wasn't it?

Illinois home rule provisions are much stronger than other states and are enshrined in the state constitution.

 

Its like comparing apples and oranges to compare Illinois home rule with other states.

 

The bottom line is that it is over for this session. Even if we get the NRA to support the bill, and the chance of that seems nil, we have to start over again next session.

 

I have had a few days to think about this, and the more I think about it the less mad I am at the NRA. They are entitled to their legislative strategy. For the most part we have to ride their coat tails unless we can find a way to knock off a half dozen antis in each house this fall and I don't see how that can happen with us bickering amongst ourselves over spilled milk.

[SirMatthew]

Just when I think I have calmed down a little about this my thoughts return to the topic I get upset all over again. At IGOLD, a Representative was honored by ISRA as "Legislator of the Year". When presented with the award, 5000 people cheered loudly and the guy got a standing ovation! His name was Phelps, the author of HB2257. It's highly unlikely the NRA didn't know how much Illinois citizens supported this bill with a lot of excitement and hope. Then they trampled on that promising bill by lobbying against it. Only when it's too late to call it for a vote do they go neutral. Makes me sick to realize we wasted all that time sending letters, making calls, composing emails, talking to our friends, rallying support, posting on blogs, etc. I have a hat that says, "Friend of the NRA", which I am no longer wearing.

 

The NRA's silence on the matter is deafening and I believe its only a matter of time before this situation hits the major news media. You know how much they love a controversy and it will be embarrassing to hear reports of in-fighting among Illinois gun owners and the NRA. Once it hits the news the anti's will know exactly where to focus their opposition efforts and that will hurt our efforts to get a STHR bill passed in the future. It would be a wise move for the NRA to issue an official statement on this issue for Illinois gun owners before that happens.

 

Ok, calming down. The NRA is just another group fighting for rights just like we are doing. They are more established, better funded, and more powerful; but who gave an out-of-state organization the right to decide what the strategy will be for those of us who live in this state? It's unfortunate we can't come to terms on this and I think their position on this issue will cause more harm than good in terms of NRA/Member relations. Nevertheless, we can proceed on STHR without their support if need be, although doing so will be all the more difficult without their help.

[Drylok]

I'm having puter problems sorry about the distractions. I don't know Mathew, I hope you're proven to be wrong about NRA membership. We need people to ban together not emplode.

[SirMatthew]

I'm having puter problems sorry about the distractions. I don't know Mathew, I hope you're proven to be wrong about NRA membership. We need people to ban together not emplode.

 

I hope I'm wrong about it too, but for sure the NRA could make a decision right now which would enable us to once again band together tightly with them. Helpful comments are one thing, but I'm letting this get to me too badly. I'm gonna try to avoid venting on this thread again, sorry if the rant has gotten old.

[eric2281]

Just when I think I have calmed down a little about this my thoughts return to the topic I get upset all over again. At IGOLD, a Representative was honored by ISRA as "Legislator of the Year". When presented with the award, 5000 people cheered loudly and the guy got a standing ovation! His name was Phelps, the author of HB2257. It's highly unlikely the NRA didn't know how much Illinois citizens supported this bill with a lot of excitement and hope. Then they trampled on that promising bill by lobbying against it. Only when it's too late to call it for a vote do they go neutral. Makes me sick to realize we wasted all that time sending letters, making calls, composing emails, talking to our friends, rallying support, posting on blogs, etc. I have a hat that says, "Friend of the NRA", which I am no longer wearing.

 

The NRA's silence on the matter is deafening and I believe its only a matter of time before this situation hits the major news media. You know how much they love a controversy and it will be embarrassing to hear reports of in-fighting among Illinois gun owners and the NRA. Once it hits the news the anti's will know exactly where to focus their opposition efforts and that will hurt our efforts to get a STHR bill passed in the future. It would be a wise move for the NRA to issue an official statement on this issue for Illinois gun owners before that happens.

 

Ok, calming down. The NRA is just another group fighting for rights just like we are doing. They are more established, better funded, and more powerful; but who gave an out-of-state organization the right to decide what the strategy will be for those of us who live in this state? It's unfortunate we can't come to terms on this and I think their position on this issue will cause more harm than good in terms of NRA/Member relations. Nevertheless, we can proceed without their support if need be, although doing so will be all the more difficult without their help.

 

 

+1

 

I have not posted in this thread until now because I have the same problem. I get all hot headed & have nothing really positive to contribute. I think your post sums it up pretty well for me as well as other posts in here.

 

 

One thing I dont understand & I'm sure someone can clarify for me is....

 

Whats all the talk about getting charged w/a felony UUW for "making a wrong turn"? It's clearly outlined in the last sentence of the synopsis as introduced.~

Provides that a firearm is not subject to confiscation solely because it is carried in violation of the Citizen's Self-Defense Act. Effective January 1, 2010.

 

Seems to me it would result in a fine of sorts...if you were caught. If you were carrying discreetly, I see no problems arising just passing through a town.

[abolt243]

The NRA's silence on the matter is deafening quote]

 

 

Those of you that expect an overnight decision by the NRA aren't being very realistic. They have changed their stance from "oppose"to "neutral", now we're asking them for further clarification. They have other issues right here in this state, not to mention issues in the other 49 that they have to give attention to. Their annual convention is this week, most are out of the office and involved in convention activities. This is a serious issue, we don't want a quick "off the top of our head" position. As to demanding that they conform to our position: I just want them to consider our position and give us some idea of why they take the position that they do, whatever it might end up being. There are lots of other issues to consider, not just in this state, but across the whole country. We're well aware that whatever the Anti's get passed in CA seems to spread out to other states, and I know that whatever the pro-gun guys agree to in one state, would then be demanded in other states.

 

I continue to support the NRA in all other things. I don't agree with their position on STHR, but I'm not naive enough to think that I have all the answers either. If they can convince me that I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But, if we can convince them that this is a viable alternative that deserves a fair run, then we have gained.

 

Don't become so focused on this little bitty spot of an issue that you lose sight of the whole tamale.

 

Tim

[bob]

Whats all the talk about getting charged w/a felony UUW for "making a wrong turn"? It's clearly outlined in the last sentence of the synopsis as introduced.~

 

Provides that a firearm is not subject to confiscation solely because it is carried in violation of the Citizen's Self-Defense Act. Effective January 1, 2010.

 

 

Seems to me it would result in a fine of sorts...if you were caught. If you were carrying discreetly, I see no problems arising just passing through a town.

Lets review existing law that somehow seems to be forgotten.

 

Felony UUW (aka aggravated UUW) is covered in 720 ILCS 5/24‑1.6.

 

Basically it is the same offense as normal UUW but with an aggravating factor. Some of the aggravating factors include:

 

(3) One of the following factors is present:

(A) the firearm possessed was uncased, loaded

and immediately accessible at the time of the offense; or

...

 

 

A holstered and loaded firearm certainly qualifies under (A). A LTC is going to exempt you from this law.

 

Some people have made the leap that if a home rule unit wants to ban CC in its jurisdiction they can some how opt out. Thats not exactly how I think it would have to happen. I think a HR unit would have to pass an ordinance that would criminalize such acts. The state constitution does not allow HR units to create a felony so it could not be a felony. You could still get charged for carrying if you made a wrong turn.

 

The confiscation thing mentioned in the LTC bill has no effect on HR units. They could still pass laws prohibiting carry and providing for confiscation.

[eric2281]

Whats all the talk about getting charged w/a felony UUW for "making a wrong turn"? It's clearly outlined in the last sentence of the synopsis as introduced.~

 

Provides that a firearm is not subject to confiscation solely because it is carried in violation of the Citizen's Self-Defense Act. Effective January 1, 2010.

 

 

Seems to me it would result in a fine of sorts...if you were caught. If you were carrying discreetly, I see no problems arising just passing through a town.

Lets review existing law that somehow seems to be forgotten.

 

Felony UUW (aka aggravated UUW) is covered in 720 ILCS 5/24‑1.6.

 

Basically it is the same offense as normal UUW but with an aggravating factor. Some of the aggravating factors include:

 

(3) One of the following factors is present:

(A) the firearm possessed was uncased, loaded

and immediately accessible at the time of the offense; or

...

 

 

A holstered and loaded firearm certainly qualifies under (A). A LTC is going to exempt you from this law.

 

Some people have made the leap that if a home rule unit wants to ban CC in its jurisdiction they can some how opt out. Thats not exactly how I think it would have to happen. I think a HR unit would have to pass an ordinance that would criminalize such acts. The state constitution does not allow HR units to create a felony so it could not be a felony. You could still get charged for carrying if you made a wrong turn.

 

The confiscation thing mentioned in the LTC bill has no effect on HR units. They could still pass laws prohibiting carry and providing for confiscation.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I still don't believe it would be as bad as some try to portray.

[bob]

Thanks for the clarification. I still don't believe it would be as bad as some try to portray.

I am inclined to agree on that. I do think it would be a mess though.

 

Much like the existing mess.

 

<deleted part that turned out to be not so>

[sctman800]

I called the NRA this morning and got pretty much the answer everyone else has gotten. I wasn't rude and didn't make threats of quitting but stated my feelings of dismay over this strategy. I will continue to support the NRA and hope they have something that will work. Jim.

[Ashdump]

Well, I've followed this topic here and other places. AR-15.com has a pretty crappy attitude in general about the press release. Of course, most of the folks who see no fault with what NRA has done to the bill live in states where they can pack and not be considered a criminal. This is our fight IL, we'll have to do it all on our own! The rest of America don't care about our plight. That was made abundantly clear on a national forum.

[Drylok]

Just got this reply:

"I am currently out of the office. If you need immediate assistance, please call 703-267-1140.

Scott Christman,"

 

Na that's ok, you just soak up that letter and the few thousand others you've recieved in the last 3 days and think hard. Take long draws....

[bob]

Well, I've followed this topic here and other places. AR-15.com has a pretty crappy attitude in general about the press release. Of course, most of the folks who see no fault with what NRA has done to the bill live in states where they can pack and not be considered a criminal. This is our fight IL, we'll have to do it all on our own! The rest of America don't care about our plight. That was made abundantly clear on a national forum.

 

AR15 has a pretty crappy attitude about a lot of things.

[ed cooper]

Follow the money...stop paying dues to the NRA...GOA seems to be the better organization.

[bob]

Follow the money...stop paying dues to the NRA...GOA seems to be the better organization.

I will ask the same question of you that i ask of everyone who says this.

 

What good legislation has GOA gotten passed? What bad legislation has it stopped?

[mauserme]

While not expecting an overnight decision by the NRA a quick acknowledgment that they are aware of the feelings expressed here seems only prudent. Reassurance, without the promise of change, that the topic will at least be revisited in the not too distant future. Damage control is, after all, as much a part of the political process as any floor fight. Nothing extraordinary - just a little common courtesy. But we, of course, are the Illinois electorate. Ignoring us is easy.

 

Well, I take some comfort in knowing I am not the only one growing impatient with the silence.

[abolt243]

While not expecting an overnight decision by the NRA a quick acknowledgment that they are aware of the feelings expressed here seems only prudent. Reassurance, without the promise of change, that the topic will at least be revisited in the not too distant future. Damage control is, after all, as much a part of the political process as any floor fight. Nothing extraordinary - just a little common courtesy. But we, of course, are the Illinois electorate. Ignoring us is easy.

 

Well, I take some comfort in knowing I am not the only one growing impatient with the silence.

 

There was an immeadiate response. They moved from "Opposed" to "Neutral". They are revisiting the issue now and Todd V. has promised that they will issue a statement (post 162, this thread). Any further movement towards STHR LTC in the legislature cannot be instigated until next January's session. Let them take their time. Let all the members that want to comment get their comments in. Let HQ confer with their people here on the ground and really learn about the issues that we face. Let them make an informed decision.

 

I'd not be surprised if it's 30 days to a formal announcement.

 

These things take time folks.

Tim

[Drylok]

Time, yes I love it when things take a long time and I have to be really patient. Especially when I've been being patient for 31 years. We know that all good things come to those who wait.

 

 

This Concludes My Grasshopper Derangment Theropy Treatment For The Day

 

[abolt243]

Time, yes I love it when things take a long time and I have to be really patient. Especially when I've been being patient for 31 years. We know that all good things come to those who wait.

 

 

This Concludes My Grasshopper Derangment Theropy Treatment For The Day

 

 

 

I remember when I was 31,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I think, or is that 41?? Naw, there was a 5 in there someplace!!

 

Aw....shucks, I forget. As least I think I do.

UAB

[SirMatthew]

(edited for space)

 

There was an immediate response. They moved from "Opposed" to "Neutral".

 

They are revisiting the issue now and Todd V. has promised that they will issue a statement (post 162, this thread).

 

Any further movement towards STHR LTC in the legislature cannot be instigated until next January's session.

 

From the press release: "Now after weeks of conversation with the NRA-ILA, their leadership team has temporarily changed their position from opposition to neutral while they claim to study the issue."

 

I'm not sure I'd call this an immediate response as the press release got us all involved after the NRA went to neutral. Now that we are involved we are wanting an immediate response. To their credit, they did respond immediately by phone to a few people and are engaging in dialog about this issue. You may be right in pointing out there is no rush. After all, getting their support today won't help us any more than getting their support next December. I think we are champing at the bit because it's possible they could revert back to opposed or choose to remain neutral and some of us don't want to settle for that. We want to know early on in the game so we can know if we should continue to hound them or not. Personally, I don't want to spend the next 8 months worrying if they are going to support STHR. You are right again in saying we don't want a rash decision, we want them to think this through and genuinely consider what is best. We've been told a statement is forthcoming, I suppose that should be enough for now. Frustration just gets the best of me, I suppose. Thanks for trying to calm frustrations and calling for patience, Tim.

[Drylok]

(edited for space)

 

There was an immediate response. They moved from "Opposed" to "Neutral".

 

They are revisiting the issue now and Todd V. has promised that they will issue a statement (post 162, this thread).

 

Any further movement towards STHR LTC in the legislature cannot be instigated until next January's session.

 

From the press release: "Now after weeks of conversation with the NRA-ILA, their leadership team has temporarily changed their position from opposition to neutral while they claim to study the issue."

 

I'm not sure I'd call this an immediate response as the press release got us all involved after the NRA went to neutral. Now that we are involved we are wanting an immediate response. To their credit, they did respond immediately by phone to a few people and are engaging in dialog about this issue. You may be right in pointing out there is no rush. After all, getting their support today won't help us any more than getting their support next December. I think we are champing at the bit because it's possible they could revert back to opposed or choose to remain neutral and some of us don't want to settle for that. We want to know early on in the game so we can know if we should continue to hound them or not. Personally, I don't want to spend the next 8 months worrying if they are going to support STHR. You are right again in saying we don't want a rash decision, we want them to think this through and genuinely consider what is best. We've been told a statement is forthcoming, I suppose that should be enough for now. Frustration just gets the best of me, I suppose. Thanks for trying to calm frustrations and calling for patience, Tim.

 

He's the most patient man I've ever known, or been related to. Drives me nuts!

 

Yes thank you UAB for helping some of us to not slit our wrists

[GarandFan]

Yes thank you UAB for helping some of us to not slit our wrists

 

I know you're joking ....

 

But if you're not, you're taking this stuff WAY to seriously.

[Drylok]

Yes thank you UAB for helping some of us to not slit our wrists

 

I know you're joking ....

 

But if you're not, you're taking this stuff WAY to seriously.

 

I don't think a person can take a constitutional right too seriously. But I know what you mean, yes totally joking

[bob]

While not expecting an overnight decision by the NRA a quick acknowledgment that they are aware of the feelings expressed here seems only prudent. Reassurance, without the promise of change, that the topic will at least be revisited in the not too distant future. Damage control is, after all, as much a part of the political process as any floor fight. Nothing extraordinary - just a little common courtesy. But we, of course, are the Illinois electorate. Ignoring us is easy.

 

Well, I take some comfort in knowing I am not the only one growing impatient with the silence.

I don't know why you feel ignored. They spent a lot of time on the phone with many of us after Molly's post explaining their position.

 

The NRA lobbyist took time out from Mother's day to post answers to question we had.

 

This is too big of a thing to be decided on a moment's notice.