NRA-ILA Lobbied Against IL License to Carry Bill

[Buzzard]

It has become crystal clear that certain members here are terribly upset that they weren't included in the decision to challenge the NRA's position and strategy publically. It may also be true that these same members are also mad that they had no say in the planning and execution of this year's campaign to win our rights. It appears that once again, because someone feels "left out," there must be some elitism involved. Might I point out that it would be incredibly foolish to post each and every idea here on a public forum and then poll the members on which stategy to choose! Think of how appealing that policy would be to our anti-gun opponents.

 

strat⋅a⋅gem _______ [strat-uh-juhm]

 

–noun

1. a plan, scheme, or trick for surprising or deceiving an enemy.

2. any artifice, ruse, or trick devised or used to attain a goal or

to gain an advantage over an adversary or competitor.

I do hope those of you now see the absurdity of your proposal. I'm reminded of a press conference General H. Norman Schwarzkopf held prior to Desert Storm. One of the media reporters quite unbelievably asked, "General! Just how do you plan to invade Iraq and defeat Saddam Hussein?"

 

"AH!" Schwarzkopf exclaimed, "I'm glad you asked! If you'll follow me on this map - this is what we plan to do..."

 

And for the next several minutes, with the media's cameras rolling and the reporters breathlessly listening, General H. Norman Schwarzkopf laid out in excrutiating detail a completely bogus plan that wasn't even close to what the real attack on Iraq would be. Now why would the General lie to the media? Does anyone here remember CNN setting up on the Iraq beach to broadcast LIVE our SURPRISE attack on Iraq by Navy SEALS? Regretably, the highly trained SEALS didn't take one shot that night and every single reporter escaped unharmed.

 

Now I ask you, do you now understand why we can't discuss every single, little thing here on this public forum?

[Johnnybgood]

ACOChicago. Very simple. As long as anyone in Illinois is denied their right to self defense, the rights of the rest of the state are open to attack and repeal. By fighting for the rights of everyone in this state including Chicago, we assure the safety of our own rights. We will not rest until everyone's rights are respected.

[asfried1]

It has become crystal clear that certain members here are terribly upset that they weren't included in the decision to challenge the NRA's position and strategy publically. It may also be true that these same members are also mad that they had no say in the planning and execution of this year's campaign to win our rights. It appears that once again, because someone feels "left out," there must be some elitism involved. Might I point out that it would be incredibly foolish to post each and every idea here on a public forum and then poll the members on which stategy to choose! Think of how appealing that policy would be to our anti-gun opponents.

 

strat⋅a⋅gem _______ [strat-uh-juhm]

 

–noun

1. a plan, scheme, or trick for surprising or deceiving an enemy.

2. any artifice, ruse, or trick devised or used to attain a goal or

to gain an advantage over an adversary or competitor.

I do hope those of you now see the absurdity of your proposal. I'm reminded of a press conference General H. Norman Schwarzkopf held prior to Desert Storm. One of the media reporters quite unbelievably asked, "General! Just how do you plan to invade Iraq and defeat Saddam Hussein?"

 

"AH!" Schwarzkopf exclaimed, "I'm glad you asked! If you'll follow me on this map - this is what we plan to do..."

 

And for the next several minutes, with the media's cameras rolling and the reporters breathlessly listening, General H. Norman Schwarzkopf laid out in excrutiating detail a completely bogus plan that wasn't even close to what the real attack on Iraq would be. Now why would the General lie to the media? Does anyone here remember CNN setting up on the Iraq beach to broadcast LIVE our SURPRISE attack on Iraq by Navy SEALS? Regretably, the highly trained SEALS didn't take one shot that night and every single reporter escaped unharmed.

 

Now I ask you, do you now understand why we can't discuss every single, little thing here on this public forum?

 

How do you think Stormin Normin would have responded if he had found out the Secretary of Defense was siding with Saddam?

[ACOCHICAGO]

It has become crystal clear that certain members here are terribly upset that they weren't included in the decision to challenge the NRA's position and strategy publically. It may also be true that these same members are also mad that they had no say in the planning and execution of this year's campaign to win our rights. It appears that once again, because someone feels "left out," there must be some elitism involved. Might I point out that it would be incredibly foolish to post each and every idea here on a public forum and then poll the members on which stategy to choose! Think of how appealing that policy would be to our anti-gun opponents.

 

strat⋅a⋅gem _______ [strat-uh-juhm]

 

–noun

1. a plan, scheme, or trick for surprising or deceiving an enemy.

2. any artifice, ruse, or trick devised or used to attain a goal or

to gain an advantage over an adversary or competitor.

I do hope those of you now see the absurdity of your proposal. I'm reminded of a press conference General H. Norman Schwarzkopf held prior to Desert Storm. One of the media reporters quite unbelievably asked, "General! Just how do you plan to invade Iraq and defeat Saddam Hussein?"

 

"AH!" Schwarzkopf exclaimed, "I'm glad you asked! If you'll follow me on this map - this is what we plan to do..."

 

And for the next several minutes, with the media's cameras rolling and the reporters breathlessly listening, General H. Norman Schwarzkopf laid out in excrutiating detail a completely bogus plan that wasn't even close to what the real attack on Iraq would be. Now why would the General lie to the media? Does anyone here remember CNN setting up on the Iraq beach to broadcast LIVE our SURPRISE attack on Iraq by Navy SEALS? Regretably, the highly trained SEALS didn't take one shot that night and every single reporter escaped unharmed.

 

Now I ask you, do you now understand why we can't discuss every single, little thing here on this public forum?

 

So if this not the forum to discuss concerns related to LTC, then where are we supposed to go to? You proposition that I am giving the enemies of the 2nd amendment ideas to defeat us is absurd. If this forum is supposed to be a war room, then I suggest a better bunker.

 

-Miguel

[gravyboy77]

My suspicion is their basic strategy on LTC in Illinois is to wait until the courts deal a death blow to anti carry laws and then start pushing it for real. My guess is we are realistically talking ten to 20 years for that to happen.

 

Exactly. They have no problems w/ letting it take another 10-20 years tacked onto the nearly 20 we've already waited.

 

What's the problem w/ getting limited LTC now? Why are they deliberately sabotaging it?

 

The reasons they've given stink and show that the NRA leadership is out of touch.

 

From the messages I've received and what others have as well, it seems they will continue to act as they see fit, not how their membership sees fit.

 

Yep, the NRA intoduces the same bill every year to have it fail! heck, the media doesn't even bother reporting about it.

This year, i thought things would be different 2257 because it only needed 60 votes instead of the usual 71 and let Chitcago opt out. The NRA will not get any money from me or any of my friends until they start working for us instead of against us.

[jkrzos]

Howdy,

 

MollyB-Thanks for the informative post and you hit the nail on the Head. If the NRA(I'm a Life Member), is against the people of Illinois having the LTC, then it's time to find one that does. We have been doing this for the last 20 years and I tired of this. I believe the NRA has lost sight of the purpose of the membership, we pay your salaries, pay your expenses, and build your expensive buildings. These people are just like the Politicians who are elected to represent us in Washington, DC-they continue to do things for the betterment of themselves and not for all the members. I think we ought to draw the line in the sand and tell the NRA. Here's the deal-We are just like the rest of the 48 states, who have some form of LTC laws. You don't help us, we pull our money and membership and go to an organization that does. It's all about money.

 

I live in Crook County and when they passed the AWB, I sent a letter to the NRA concerning this. I was told by an underling, that the support for the NRA is not that great in Crook County, so they wouldn't be involved. The amount of NRA members in Crook county was the determining factor in their support. I.E.-Money was the factor for their support! Only when the ISRA lawsuit, caused them to be involved. They should have been in the forefront of this battle. I also told them if they lose Illinois, it will be a domino effect for the rest of the country. Just like big organizations, they will listen to the squeaky wheel, when it comes to money. I'm ready to draw the line in the sand and defend yours and my rights to keep and bear arms. In 1962, I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, foreign and domestic, and I'm prepared to do it again, for everyone who believes in the it!

 

John Krzos

[Thirdpower]

Hello IC Members:

 

As a long time resident born and raised in Chicago, I have a few major concerns and questions regarding bill HB2237 STHR-LTC. It obvious that if this bill gets passed Chicago residents will be left defenseless once again by the state.

 

Questions:

 

How does this bill allow Chicago residents to exercise their 2nd amendment rights where the murder rate was at 510 in 2008, and crime is at an all time high?

 

How many individuals posting here who support HB2237 actually live in Chicago where most likely Chicago will opt out of STHR-LTC?

 

How can Chicago residents be assured that if HB2237 gets passed that there would not be an easing of pressure towards state wide preemption so that ALL citizens, including Chicago, can finally exercise their right to self defense with a firearm?

 

I am trying to understanding the long term view of what the members are trying to accomplish, however, based on what I have read here and in the news, it appears that Chicago residents will once again become sacrificial lambs so that LTC can be achieved in Illinois.

 

It's simple. We really have two choices:

 

1) The entire state is made to suffer for another decade or so while we wait out the decisions of court cases that may or may not go our way.

 

2) We work incrementally towards the same goal w/ some areas reaping earlier benefits than others.

[Buzzard]

So if this not the forum to discuss concerns related to LTC, then where are we supposed to go to? You proposition that I am giving the enemies of the 2nd amendment ideas to defeat us is absurd. If this forum is supposed to be a war room, then I suggest a better bunker.

 

-Miguel

Welcome, Miguel to the forum. Yes, this is the place to discuss concerns related to LTC. And if you research back through the threads of this board, it's been said many times that the ultimate goal of the members here is - that ALL of ILLINOIS has LTC. not just southern Illinois, but also northeastern Illinois by the lake.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the NRA has been endorsing the same bills that fail, year after year. And what the ISRA and we here are suggesting is let's try something different! If the square peg doesn't seem to fit the round hole this year, and it hasn't fit in any of the previous years, why must we keep ignoring the round peg that might fit? And the NRA should not have stood in our way to try.

 

We must all work together, or we will fail. We are now trying to work through this. And Miguel, we must now communicate our concerns to the NRA that the plan they have been trying - which would include Chicago - has no chance of working whatsoever. We here are pointing to other states that have struggled for their rights and had to gain them in little steps over time. But at least that way - some people were protected.

 

Miguel, are you saying because you choose to live in Chicago, that no one else should be afforded the right to defend themselves because you will have to wait? And what if fate suddenly moved you and your family to Vermont? What would you have us do then? Waiting for the courts to decide the law will take decades - if ever! If the current president can upset the balance of the SCOTUS - it will never happen!!

 

What would you have us do?

[ACOCHICAGO]

So if this not the forum to discuss concerns related to LTC, then where are we supposed to go to? You proposition that I am giving the enemies of the 2nd amendment ideas to defeat us is absurd. If this forum is supposed to be a war room, then I suggest a better bunker.

 

-Miguel

Welcome, Miguel to the forum. Yes, this is the place to discuss concerns related to LTC. And if you research back through the threads of this board, it's been said many times that the ultimate goal of the members here is - that ALL of ILLINOIS has LTC. not just southern Illinois, but also northeastern Illinois by the lake.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the NRA has been endorsing the same bills that fail, year after year. And what the ISRA and we here are suggesting is let's try something different! If the square peg doesn't seem to fit the round hole this year, and it hasn't fit in any of the previous years, why must we keep ignoring the round peg that might fit? And the NRA should not have stood in our way to try.

 

We must all work together, or we will fail. We are now trying to work through this. And Miguel, we must now communicate our concerns to the NRA that the plan they have been trying - which would include Chicago - has no chance of working whatsoever. We here are pointing to other states that have struggled for their rights and had to gain them in little steps over time. But at least that way - some people were protected.

 

Miguel, are you saying because you choose to live in Chicago, that no one else should be afforded the right to defend themselves because you will have to wait? And what if fate suddenly moved you and your family to Vermont? What would you have us do then? Waiting for the courts to decide the law will take decades - if ever! If the current president can upset the balance of the SCOTUS - it will never happen!!

 

What would you have us do?

 

Dear Buzzard (I apologize since I don't know your name):

 

Vermont - no way! No Buzzard, I am not saying that Illinois residents should have to wait for LTC because of Chicago? Consider this Buzzard: the population of Chicago and Cook County (which would most likely opt-out) combined is about 5.3 million residents, almost half of Illinois population! Should 5.3 million residents move out of Chicago-Cook County in order to exercise their 2nd amendment rights under STHR-LTC? I am not sure what the answer is, but again, STHR-LTC sounds and reads like a raw deal for 5.3 million citizens of the United States of America.

[Molly B.]

Hello IC Members:

 

As a long time resident born and raised in Chicago, I have a few major concerns and questions regarding bill HB2237 STHR-LTC. It obvious that if this bill gets passed Chicago residents will be left defenseless once again by the state.

 

Questions:

 

How does this bill allow Chicago residents to exercise their 2nd amendment rights where the murder rate was at 510 in 2008, and crime is at an all time high?

 

How many individuals posting here who support HB2237 actually live in Chicago where most likely Chicago will opt out of STHR-LTC?

 

How can Chicago residents be assured that if HB2237 gets passed that there would not be an easing of pressure towards state wide preemption so that ALL citizens, including Chicago, can finally exercise their right to self defense with a firearm?

 

I am trying to understanding the long term view of what the members are trying to accomplish, however, based on what I have read here and in the news, it appears that Chicago residents will once again become sacrificial lambs so that LTC can be achieved in Illinois.

 

AcoChicago,

I see you are new here to IllinoisCarry and we welcome you and your questions.

 

Being new here I wouldn't expect you to know how dedicated we are to seeing LTC throughout the entire state. A good number of our members and most beloved friends are in the Chicago/Cook Co. area and they know without a doubt that our efforts do not end until every law abiding citizen that lives in this state, visits in this state, or travels through this state can exercise their constitutional right to protect themselves and their families.

 

We leave no one behind - no one.

 

After a decade and a half fighting against Chicago for a LTC law and being the absolutely last state in the nation with absolutely no form of carry whatsoever we feel it is time to try another tactic. We are not sacrificing Chicago, we are coming for Chicago. In Chicago it is not even legal to own a handgun let alone carry one for personal defense.

 

Logic says if we can get a foothold in the door with LTC in the rest of the state, prove that it will not be the wild, wild west, prove that we won't be shooting each other over parking spaces, when we prove LTC is as successful in Illinois as it is in the rest of the nation - then it will be an easier sell in Chicago.

 

The good people of Chicago will then have the means to PULL license to carry into Chicago instead it being PUSHED into Chicago - which again, does not even allow legal ownership of a handgun at this point.

 

I will try to answer some of your other questions -

 

How can Chicago residents be assured that if HB2237 gets passed that there would not be an easing of pressure towards state wide preemption so that ALL citizens, including Chicago, can finally exercise their right to self defense with a firearm?

You must not be familiar with the growing Second Amendment movement in Chicago/Cook Co. Those folks are not giving up on their rights and like I said neither are we! It is in all our best interest to have statewide preemption and the fight does not stop until we achieve it. And besides that if the people of Chicago/Cook Co. decide they want LTC they have enough legislators in the IL General Assembly they could pass LTC right now even if the rest of the state didn't want it.

 

 

How does this bill allow Chicago residents to exercise their 2nd amendment rights where the murder rate was at 510 in 2008, and crime is at an all time high?

The good folks of Chicago would be able to get a LTC, which would be honored in all the areas that recognize LTC. No one will be able to carry in Chicago until a statewide preemption law is passed. Join the cause, we have great people joining the Second Amendment fight in Chicago/Cook Co. we need you.

 

Our long term goal is statewide preemption.

Our short term goal is subject to home rule carry -

 

Welcome to the struggle and we hope you'll put in a oar for the long haul!

 

Molly B.

[Jeff Watts]

I'm so angry over this that I'm not sure where to direct it. I'm not going to attack molly, because I don't see this as her fault.

 

However, I see that we've been duped by our "friends" on Waples mill rd. I also notice that our resident NRA lobbyist is absent from this discussion. Now some are suggesting that we have to "lobby" the NRA. Let's think about that for a minute. The NRA is supposed to be helping us lobby. I've yet to see an acceptable reason for the NRA to work against us behind our backs. Could it possibly be that if we were to win the fight, then there would no longer be a a fight needing to be won? At any rate, I now view the NRA as just another obstacle in our way. They could have been public in their opposition to 2257, and explained their reasoning. They chose not to. They insulted and betrayed their supporters.

 

I'm now posting this on every pro gun site I know of, as well as emailing my entire address book asking all of my contacts to withdraw their support from the NRA. When I see an NRA table at a gun show, I will publicly call them on this in an effort to keep them from gaining new members for them to betray. After what they did to us in the 90's and now this, it has become clear to me that this sort of betrayal is common practice for them, and I don't see them changing. The NRA is now my enemy.

[bob]

Interesting. this was one of the arguments the NRA guy made with me last night.

 

Hello IC Members:

 

As a long time resident born and raised in Chicago, I have a few major concerns and questions regarding bill HB2237 STHR-LTC. It obvious that if this bill gets passed Chicago residents will be left defenseless once again by the state.

 

Questions:

 

How does this bill allow Chicago residents to exercise their 2nd amendment rights where the murder rate was at 510 in 2008, and crime is at an all time high?

 

How many individuals posting here who support HB2237 actually live in Chicago where most likely Chicago will opt out of STHR-LTC?

 

How can Chicago residents be assured that if HB2237 gets passed that there would not be an easing of pressure towards state wide preemption so that ALL citizens, including Chicago, can finally exercise their right to self defense with a firearm?

 

I am trying to understanding the long term view of what the members are trying to accomplish, however, based on what I have read here and in the news, it appears that Chicago residents will once again become sacrificial lambs so that LTC can be achieved in Illinois.

[Thirdpower]

Interesting. this was one of the arguments the NRA guy made with me last night.

 

So the rest of the state needs to wait and be punished for another decade plus.

 

Along that logic, the NRA should have opposed all state LTC's in lieu of a National one.

[Buzzard]

....the NRA should have opposed all state LTC's in lieu of a National one.

 

There...that's fair for everyone, isn't it.

[ACOCHICAGO]

Hello IC Members:

 

As a long time resident born and raised in Chicago, I have a few major concerns and questions regarding bill HB2237 STHR-LTC. It obvious that if this bill gets passed Chicago residents will be left defenseless once again by the state.

 

Questions:

 

How does this bill allow Chicago residents to exercise their 2nd amendment rights where the murder rate was at 510 in 2008, and crime is at an all time high?

 

How many individuals posting here who support HB2237 actually live in Chicago where most likely Chicago will opt out of STHR-LTC?

 

How can Chicago residents be assured that if HB2237 gets passed that there would not be an easing of pressure towards state wide preemption so that ALL citizens, including Chicago, can finally exercise their right to self defense with a firearm?

 

I am trying to understanding the long term view of what the members are trying to accomplish, however, based on what I have read here and in the news, it appears that Chicago residents will once again become sacrificial lambs so that LTC can be achieved in Illinois.

 

AcoChicago,

I see you are new here to IllinoisCarry and we welcome you and your questions.

 

Being new here I wouldn't expect you to know how dedicated we are to seeing LTC throughout the entire state. A good number of our members and most beloved friends are in the Chicago/Cook Co. area and they know without a doubt that our efforts do not end until every law abiding citizen that lives in this state, visits in this state, or travels through this state can exercise their constitutional right to protect themselves and their families.

 

We leave no one behind - no one.

 

After a decade and a half fighting against Chicago for a LTC law and being the absolutely last state in the nation with absolutely no form of carry whatsoever we feel it is time to try another tactic. We are not sacrificing Chicago, we are coming for Chicago. In Chicago it is not even legal to own a handgun let alone carry one for personal defense.

 

Logic says if we can get a foothold in the door with LTC in the rest of the state, prove that it will not be the wild, wild west, prove that we won't be shooting each other over parking spaces, when we prove LTC is as successful in Illinois as it is in the rest of the nation - then it will be an easier sell in Chicago.

 

The good people of Chicago will then have the means to PULL license to carry into Chicago instead it being PUSHED into Chicago - which again, does not even allow legal ownership of a handgun at this point.

 

I will try to answer some of your other questions -

 

How can Chicago residents be assured that if HB2237 gets passed that there would not be an easing of pressure towards state wide preemption so that ALL citizens, including Chicago, can finally exercise their right to self defense with a firearm?

You must not be familiar with the growing Second Amendment movement in Chicago/Cook Co. Those folks are not giving up on their rights and like I said neither are we! It is in all our best interest to have statewide preemption and the fight does not stop until we achieve it. And besides that if the people of Chicago/Cook Co. decide they want LTC they have enough legislators in the IL General Assembly they could pass LTC right now even if the rest of the state didn't want it.

 

 

How does this bill allow Chicago residents to exercise their 2nd amendment rights where the murder rate was at 510 in 2008, and crime is at an all time high?

The good folks of Chicago would be able to get a LTC, which would be honored in all the areas that recognize LTC. No one will be able to carry in Chicago until a statewide preemption law is passed. Join the cause, we have great people joining the Second Amendment fight in Chicago/Cook Co. we need you.

 

Our long term goal is statewide preemption.

Our short term goal is subject to home rule carry -

 

Welcome to the struggle and we hope you'll put in a oar for the long haul!

 

Molly B.

 

Hi Molly,

 

I am new to the forum, but not to this issue. I know how very dedicated all of you, including friends in Illinois Carry that I have had the great honor to meet and talk with regarding gun rights in Chicago. And yes, I will be with you on that slow boat to China if need be.

 

The realty is that even if I get a STHR-LTC - Chicago will not honor it, and if I get caught in Chicago trying to transport a gun with my STHR_LTC to go to an area that recognizes STHR-LTC, I will go to jail. STHR will be of no use to 5.3 million residents of Chicago-Cook County.

 

I truly do understand your strategy Molly, but you are asking that 5.3 million American Citizens to remain defenseless, while we wait for state preemption. It's somewhat of a false choice, Chicago has no right to legal ownership to own a handgun vs. STHR-LTC which would be useless in Chicago.

 

I am a long time member of other gun rights forum, so I will be discussing this issue with other members to get their insight on STHR-LTC, but I appreciate everything that you are doing on our behalf, and regardless of where we stand on the issue, we need to continue to support your efforts.

[Topper]

I am not saying it is right or wrong but the general concensus in Southern Illinois is that Cook Co. has horrible political problems that are restricting the rest of the state from their constitutional rights. I understand both sides of the argument and am torn between them but Chicago has a LOT of political work to do before LTC is accepted. The people who run that part of the state hang their hats on 2nd amendment restriction.

I am just passing along to you what scores of people reflect to me about the situation down in our part of the state. I don't mean to offend anyone, I wish everyone in the USA could have our right to carry... at this point though we have absolutely nothing to work with. If folks in downstate Illinois gain the right to Carry, I think it would end up getting Cook County their rights quicker than the method we have done for years and years.

 

edited for spelling correction.

[Ol'Coach]

...but you are asking that 5.3 million American Citizens to remain defenseless, while we wait for state preemption.

 

With all due respect sir, you are askng over 12 million American citizens to remain defenseless while we wait for NE IL to elect politicians that will support a preemptive LTC bill!

 

We all know where the majority of the votes are, and political affiliations have nothing to do with it. For whatever reason (duh!) it's a geographical thing.

 

Yes, 88% of the states counties (90 of them) have passed a pro-2nd Amendment Resolution, and yes, that 88% represents only app 35% of the entire population of the state.

 

Please keep in mind, a non-preemptive bill would allow any IL citizen who qualifies, regardless of where the residence, to travel app 97.3% of the state!

 

I strongly, but respectfully disagree with you that ALL of us should go defenseless traveling the state, while waiting on Chicago! It's already been too long a wait!!

[abolt243]

I truly do understand your strategy Molly, but you are asking that 5.3 million American Citizens to remain defenseless,

 

Welcome to the Forum. But, to look at it from the other perspective, you are saying that it's better that 13,000,000 American Citizens remain defenseless, waiting on the political climate to change in Chicago or for judicial action that is not guaranteed. In your original post, you stated that the state was leaving Chicago residents defenseless. I beg to differ, the entire state, including Chicago, is being rendered defenseless because of Chicago politics. As has been said, the NE corner of the state controls the legislature. If the constituents of the Chicagoland legislators put up enough of a howl for LTC, it would be passed, regardless of the wishes of downstate.

 

The sponsor of HB2257 believes that he has 60 votes to pass it. If I do my math right, that leaves only 11 votes for the Chicago legislators to come up with out of 58 available to pass a pre-emptive bill. 2257 was originally introduced as a Pre-Emptive bill. No one will complain a bit if it were passed in that form.

 

11 votes...............out of 58. With 5.3 million people at risk. Looks like with a little organization and a little education, it's a slam dunk. Funny, it hasn't happened in the last 16 years.

 

And yet, because of the lack of 11 votes, 7.7 million other people are denied their right to defend their families and themselves.

 

Eleven lousy votes............

[Ol'Coach]

ACOChicago...

 

My apologies! I neglected to welcome you to this site! We need you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buzzard]

The realty is that even if I get a STHR-LTC - Chicago will not honor it, and if I get caught in Chicago trying to transport a gun with my STHR_LTC to go to an area that recognizes STHR-LTC, I will go to jail. STHR will be of no use to 5.3 million residents of Chicago-Cook County.

 

I truly do understand your strategy Molly, but you are asking that 5.3 million American Citizens to remain defenseless, while we wait for state preemption. It's somewhat of a false choice, Chicago has no right to legal ownership to own a handgun vs. STHR-LTC which would be useless in Chicago.

 

I am a long time member of other gun rights forum, so I will be discussing this issue with other members to get their insight on STHR-LTC, but I appreciate everything that you are doing on our behalf, and regardless of where we stand on the issue, we need to continue to support your efforts.

What you say is indeed true, Miguel. And I feel your frustration, because I don't have LTC either. But you can look at this in several ways. One is to feel left out, alone and abandoned. That is not the way to save lives, which is what we are trying to do.

 

When a ship is sinking, a distress call is made. Then people wait hoping help arrives in time. When another ship does arrive to help, someone has to be the first to be rescued because not all can be rescued at once. And when a building is burning with people inside, someone has to be the first one out. Tragically, fires have often caused people to be crushed in the rush to escape. People have died because everyone wanted to be saved and not wait. There has even been times a door was jammed by the panic of a fire - and NO ONE got out.

 

Now we can continue to plan for one gigantic rescue of everyone all at once. Or we can start an orderly rescue of people in the rural areas. And the cities that choose to accept LTC, while we continue the fight to save those that live in the stubborn cities - that vote for leaders that will not allow them LTC.

 

What STHR-LTC does is get things started. It's placing the call for help. Now others most assuredly will be rescued before Chicago. But if that call never gets placed - if people continue to wait for a statewide rescue - help may not make it in time.

 

It's your choice.

[SirMatthew]

The realty is that even if I get a STHR-LTC - Chicago will not honor it, and if I get caught in Chicago trying to transport a gun with my STHR_LTC to go to an area that recognizes STHR-LTC, I will go to jail. STHR will be of no use to 5.3 million residents of Chicago-Cook County.

 

I truly do understand your strategy Molly, but you are asking that 5.3 million American Citizens to remain defenseless, while we wait for state preemption. It's somewhat of a false choice, Chicago has no right to legal ownership to own a handgun vs. STHR-LTC which would be useless in Chicago.

 

I am a long time member of other gun rights forum, so I will be discussing this issue with other members to get their insight on STHR-LTC, but I appreciate everything that you are doing on our behalf, and regardless of where we stand on the issue, we need to continue to support your efforts.

 

Not all 5.3 million in Chicago will want LTC, but I know what you are getting at. If you don't mind, I will use the same total population numbers when talking about this issue as well.

 

Those who want to wait for preemption are asking 12 million Illinois citizens to remain defenseless, as opposed to 5 million if 2257 were passed. Sure, we'd love to see all 12 million get LTC at the same time, but it is not possible to get 71 votes. It hasn't been possible to get that number of votes for many, many years. It appears unlikely we will have enough to garner that many votes for several more years to come. Thus, no one gets LTC and this outrage could go on for years, even decades. How many of those 12 million have to suffer as defenseless victims during that time? It's not right, but we can make it less wrong.

 

Pursuing 2257 will give 7 million Illinois citizens LTC. That is 7 million who could legally defend themselves in public. That's progress for the entire state! Actually, the benefits are even greater than that. When Chicago residents visit LTC-legal places in Illinois they will be safer as a result being able to exercise LTC in those places. Truly, 2257 gives benefits to all 12 million citizens, its just that 5 million of them will live in homes under tighter restrictions in Chicago.

 

Once the rest of the state gets LTC the 5 million in Chicago will feel even more deprived than we all feel now. They will want to carry to the store just like downstate residents are allowed to do. They will step up their efforts to get LTC for themselves rather than downstate people having to do it for them. We've all heard how politicians listen more closely to the people in their districts. Chicago residents can bring about the changes in their districts we downstate people cannot change. When Chicago politicians have realized their fears about LTC were exaggerated they will be more open to listening to their constituents calling for LTC in their districts.

 

In previous posts it has been said there are not that many NRA members in Chicago. I fail to see the logic of the NRA supporting LTC for Chicago when Chicago will not support the NRA or elect pro-gun candidates who will support LTC. On the flip side, there are many more NRA members downstate, yet the NRA won't step up to the plate for them by supporting 2257. If the NRA refuses to support 2257 the downstate people will stop supporting the NRA, at which time the NRA might abandon Illinois entirely. We certainly do not want that, but what would Chicago have gained then? Do you want a little now followed by the promise of more, or risk it all on a double-or-nothing bet having an indefinite payoff date?

 

I understand why Chicago residents would feel a bit shafted by 2257, but their anger will help bring about the changes needed for statewide preemption later on. Right now, we can't seem to motivate Chicago to elect pro-rights politicians, let alone fight for LTC. I am hopeful the Freedom Brigades can help change that, but it's a long-term strategy.

[bob]

Is it going to be easier to pass a non-preempted bill first and go back and fix it later, or is it best to get the whole thing at once? Thats seems to be the issue in a nut shell.

 

Most of us are either in favor or, or leaning toward the former, while the NRA is strongly in favor of the latter.

 

Has the ISRA taken any kind of position on this issue?

[abolt243]

Is it going to be easier to pass a non-preempted bill first and go back and fix it later, or is it best to get the whole thing at once? Thats seems to be the issue in a nut shell.

 

Most of us are either in favor or, or leaning toward the former, while the NRA is strongly in favor of the latter.

 

Has the ISRA taken any kind of position on this issue?

 

I have not seen a formal position statement from ISRA on this issue. I can tell you that ISRA was instrumental in getting HB2257 through the LRB and other hoops to get it ready to introduce.

 

According to their 2009 Legislation page they support the bill.

 

AB

[Tvandermyde]

a couple of quick points. I've been at the capitol all week and working on other issues. HB-182 & HJR-51.

 

Why Senator Garrett chose the arguement she did I do not know. I did not talk to anyone in the senate about the bill as it is a House Bill.

 

I believe "things came to light" after I was aksed a question by ABOLT243 at a forum for Bob Flider in Mt. Zion. I said what I said in response to a question I was asked at a public forum. So I wasn't hiding anything, it was the first time I was asked about it or presented with it. Up to that point I was continuing to focus on the Sheriff's and their support and making sure we kept them on board.

 

I don't think I talked to more than 10 legislators about 2257. Most of it was when they contacted me to ask about it in a hall way. After NRA moved to nuetral on the bill I let the sponsor know of the change in positions. The majority of time has been spent defeating anti-gun bills and working on other bills like the "cook county" preemption bill, which we got 67 votes on.

 

This thread has carried on a bunch. I've not been in on it as I spent 5 days in springfield, had a family birthday party last night, Friday, after getting home. I had a meeting today for 3 hours with gun owners and forum members.

 

it's mother's day weekend, My mom has come by to spend the weekend with us. I still have 2 positional papers to write, and update to try and bang out. paperwork to get done, unpack and repack for next week. So I may not be here 24/7.

 

And I have a pretty thick skin over all.

 

todd

[abolt243]

a couple of quick points. I've been at the capitol all week and working on other issues. HB-182 & HJR-51.

 

Why Senator Garrett chose the arguement she did I do not know. I did not talk to anyone in the senate about the bill as it is a House Bill.

 

I believe "things came to light" after I was aksed a question by ABOLT243 at a forum for Bob Flider in Mt. Zion. I said what I said in response to a question I was asked at a public forum. So I wasn't hiding anything, it was the first time I was asked about it or presented with it. Up to that point I was continuing to focus on the Sheriff's and their support and making sure we kept them on board.

 

And I have a pretty thick skin over all.

 

todd

 

Actually, I did attend the Flider event that Todd mentions, and we may have mentioned STHR in passing, but it was at the Legislative Sportsmen's Caucus in Springfield that he and I discussed the concept of STHR in depth. And, Todd was very forthright with his answer.

 

Todd, understand that our effort is directed at the management team and officers of the NRA. We know that we need to convince them to support our position, and then let you do your job.

 

Enjoy your weekend.

 

Tim

[jkrzos]

Howdy Todd,

 

I understand your position and thank you for your efforts so far. The job at hand is very difficult, to say the least, but I also understand the frustration of the other members when this came to light. I, too am going after the upper management of the NRA, which I am a Life Member. I hope the NRA will change it's stance, next week after the Illinois members voice their opinions. I know the Illinois gun owners in the NE part of the state need to elect gun supporters, but it's very difficult to find willing candidates to oppose the ruling class. I don't have the answers, but I do know one thing-People are tired of the same old rhetoric we have been fed. I go to a lot of sites and have found support in the secondcitycop site, and others. Sure the FOID card representation in cook county is not as much as it should be, but do we get less representation from the parent organization than the rest of the country? I don't think that is fair?

 

Hope you have a wonderful Mothers Day, with your Mom, and like I said before, Thank you for your work with our troubling issues of getting a LTC bill passed.

 

John Krzos

[bob]

The majority of time has been spent defeating anti-gun bills and working on other bills like the "cook county" preemption bill, which we got 67 votes on.

whats the cook county preemption bill?

[abolt243]

The majority of time has been spent defeating anti-gun bills and working on other bills like the "cook county" preemption bill, which we got 67 votes on.

whats the cook county preemption bill?

 

 

HB172

[Tvandermyde]

cook county preemption is a bill that came to be after they tried usurping the home rule authority of local governments with an ordinance to force their will over them in violation of the consitution. All municipalities in cook county had to live under the cook county ordinacne even if they had their own that was less stringent.

 

It would have taken away the ability to pass any firearms related ordinances by cook county. It is a big step in preemption as cook is the only home rule county, it applied to home rule counties.

[Buzzard]

Given the political climate of Illinois - which is usually stormy when the northeastern front blows hard over the rest of the state, things could be a lot worse. And I am glad we have Todd Vandermyde as our NRA lobbyist. Todd has stopped a lot of bad bills this year. For that we should all be thankful. I wish we could have LTC too, but for now we don't. So we keep trying.

 

Thanks Todd, for stopping the BAD bills.

 

Buzz