NRA-ILA Lobbied Against IL License to Carry Bill

[abolt243]

Here is the text of my email to them.

 

I have been told by a source I consider to be reliable that the NRA/ILA has decided to actually oppose this bill, and has directed its Illinois lobbyist to do so.

 

I would like an answer to a few questions.

 

1. Is this substantially true?

 

2. If so, I would like a detailed explanation of the thinking that would oppose whats appears to me to be basically a good bill.

 

What I am told is that the opposition, if true, is based on the lack of a state wide preemption over local home rule units. I don't know how familiar you guys are with Illinois law and Illinois politics, but Illinois home rule units jealously guard that power. If you try to force state wide preemption into a LTC bill, it just will never pass. Even if the home rule units would not want to opt out, they want to retain their prerogatives.

 

Chances are very good that outside of Cook County, no home rule unit would opt out of the thing in any case.

 

I understand the desire to have a clean LTC law, but a messy one is far more desirable than nothing.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the NRA/ILA's belief that a LTC law that was not preempted would be? I am not talking about some generalized patchwork of laws kind of explanation, more along the lines of what it really means. For instance, if a county or city opted out, would someone from outside that jurisdiction still be able to carry inside the opted out unit's boundaries?

 

I don't usually bother to tell you guys what to do, because mostly I think you are on the right course. But this case bothers me.

 

If any of you feel the urge to chat about this, I can be reached on my cell phone at XXX-XXX-XXXX or at home XXX-XXX-XXXX (after about 5:30 pm CDT).

 

Bob XXXX

NRA Life Member #XXXXXXXX

 

Great letter Bob. Including the NRA membership number is very important!!!

 

One clarification, the NRA's present stance is Neutral. We are asking for support!!

 

AB

[bob]

DNR was the issuing agency. Being a state agency, they process anyone's application. It's "shall-issue." Opt-out municipalities would simply criminalize carry despite whether the carrier was licensed, or not.

 

Patchwork of laws? Yes. But that's precisely what we have. Try driving across the country carrying a handgun. You have to know all the laws of all the states you drive through. That's just the way it is. Likewise, the various home-rule gun laws we have in Illinois are the same. Drive around with a handgun or AR or something and you get that "now legal, not legal, now legal again" sort of situation.

 

So what? This is because we don't have firearms law preemption. And we are no where near getting it, because it requires super-majority. A bill subject to home rule needs, per our constitution, a simple majority. HB2257 was subject to home rule ... the only such bill introduced during this session, and the only one that stood a snowflake's chance of passing.

 

At some level, it's really that simple.

I don't think a home rule unit can make a crime a felony either.

[abolt243]

I strongly recommend anyone interested in this to read HB2257.

 

A copy of the amended bill can be found here: HB2257

 

AB

[GarandFan]

I don't think a home rule unit can make a crime a felony either.

 

Nope.

 

That's part of the beauty. Home-rule communities can opt out, but if they "catch" someone carrying in their home rule community but under the authority of the carry license, the carry law (state law) precludes their ability to prosecute as felony aggravated unlawful use of weapon.

 

Imagine this, people. Just think about it ... "The right of the people to bear (carry) arms shall not be infringed." Yet here you are subject to FELONY arrest and prosecution if you do so. The situation in Illinois is simply unthinkable and absolutely unacceptable.

[2nd amendment forever]

Just got off the phone with whoever answers out there.......

 

She had no idea.....

 

Asked me to send her info.....

 

Which I did!

[Chris]

Just got off the phone with whoever answers out there.......

 

She had no idea.....

 

Asked me to send her info.....

 

Which I did!

 

It's after 5 pm there so they might have had a shift change.

[bob]

Just got off the phone with whoever answers out there.......

 

She had no idea.....

 

Asked me to send her info.....

 

Which I did!

 

It's after 5 pm there so they might have had a shift change.

The NRA/ILA has a night shift?

[Chris]

Just got off the phone with whoever answers out there.......

 

She had no idea.....

 

Asked me to send her info.....

 

Which I did!

 

It's after 5 pm there so they might have had a shift change.

The NRA/ILA has a night shift?

 

I'm just taking a guess, they do cover the whole usa

[Thirdpower]

Just got off the phone with whoever answers out there.......

 

She had no idea.....

 

Asked me to send her info.....

 

Which I did!

 

It's after 5 pm there so they might have had a shift change.

The NRA/ILA has a night shift?

 

Just called (4:20pm CST). Offices were closed.

[asfried1]

Ok, I've got another question. On numerous occasions we were told that sucesses this year in the House were due to behind the scenes methods that had to remain hidden. How much of this secret squirrel stuff was really just the NRA trading away no-premption LTC for support on other 2A bills?

[bob]

Ok, I've got another question. On numerous occasions we were told that sucesses this year in the House were due to behind the scenes methods that had to remain hidden. How much of this secret squirrel stuff was really just the NRA trading away no-premption LTC for support on other 2A bills?

what other pro 2A bills are there this year?

[Topper]

I think everyone can work together and come to a solution. Todd's attendance here imo confirms their desire to work with us and the collective opinion of this group. I think as long as Molly B. and the other staffers keep the line of communication open for the formation of a prime directive in this effort, we will work through the problems. I think if we could ever get our foot in the door with any kind of carry law that we will be accomplish more incremental freedom in the future. As of now we have nothing, and "nothing" is hard to work with. lol

Thanks for letting me throw in my two cents on this.. I give a thirty dollar discount to any student that agrees to join the NRA or ISRA. I discounted out 36 certs last year and hope to do more and more every year.

T0pp3R

[SirMatthew]

what other pro 2A bills are there this year?

Edit: Just the LTC ones here, I misread the question...this doesn't really answer it, but I'll leave it for reference.

 

 

[abolt243]

Ok, I've got another question. On numerous occasions we were told that sucesses this year in the House were due to behind the scenes methods that had to remain hidden. How much of this secret squirrel stuff was really just the NRA trading away no-premption LTC for support on other 2A bills?

what other pro 2A bills are there this year?

 

 

 

HB182 is the best example of a "pro-2A" bill that made it through. The other successes this year would include defeating several "Flagship" anti bills by bigger margins than they were defeated by last year. As to actual "vote trading" re: 2257. There were never any votes taken on 2257, so the opportunity wasn't there.

 

The whole point is, what is done is done. We need to move on from here, not try to get retribution for what may or may not have happened, but to get support for our efforts in the future.

 

Trying to place blame or determine who did what accomplishes nothing because we can't undo what's done. We can, however, build on mistakes in the past and move forward with LTC in Illinois. Let's concentrate on that.

 

Tim

[Jeff Watts]

Stuff like this is why I left the NRA back in the 90's. I re-joined during this free membership drive, but haven't sent them any money, and now I won't. The NRA no longer represents me. Grabbing a razor blade to go scrape their decals off of my truck.

[drdoom]

Wow, the NRA is really shooting themselves in the foot. Could an anti-gun mole be inside the NRA? From the NRA's ideology, I would think they would support the first small steps towards freedom. If not, they are really ignorant of how hard it is for us in this state.

[abolt243]

Stuff like this is why I left the NRA back in the 90's. I re-joined during this free membership drive, but haven't sent them any money, and now I won't. The NRA no longer represents me. Grabbing a razor blade to go scrape their decals off of my truck.

 

Exactly the response we DON'T need!!!! Use the free membership number when you contact them. Tell them your story and tell them what you've just told us. Then, wait and see. You may still need the razor blade, but, you may just need to buy another holster and find a place for another NRA sticker on the old truck.

 

Again, our goal here is not to malign, demean or distance our selves from the NRA. Rather we need to use our influence as members to gain their support!!

 

AB

[asfried1]

Ok, I've got another question. On numerous occasions we were told that sucesses this year in the House were due to behind the scenes methods that had to remain hidden. How much of this secret squirrel stuff was really just the NRA trading away no-premption LTC for support on other 2A bills?

what other pro 2A bills are there this year?

 

 

 

HB182 is the best example of a "pro-2A" bill that made it through. The other successes this year would include defeating several "Flagship" anti bills by bigger margins than they were defeated by last year. As to actual "vote trading" re: 2257. There were never any votes taken on 2257, so the opportunity wasn't there.

 

The whole point is, what is done is done. We need to move on from here, not try to get retribution for what may or may not have happened, but to get support for our efforts in the future.

 

Trying to place blame or determine who did what accomplishes nothing because we can't undo what's done. We can, however, build on mistakes in the past and move forward with LTC in Illinois. Let's concentrate on that.

 

Tim

 

Here's the deal. LTC is not my only priority in life. I was willing to devote personal resources to LTC in the form of money and time, but now I'm not so sure. I am confident that I can find someting else to occupy myself in the future - something where I'm not getting undermined by the NRA of all organizations.

 

As far as trading votes goes, nothing would surprise me in this state. In fact, a marriage of convenience between the NRA and the gun grabbers would be par for the course. Is it really so hard to imagine that some squishy legislators would agree to vote for HB182 on the condition that the NRA not support the most promising of the LTC bills (and thus not put them in the position of actually having to cast a difficult vote one way or the other?).

 

I don't need to figure out who is to blame here - it's obvious, isn't it?

 

What I'm interested in finding out now is what the guilty party is going to do to make this right. Frankly, I suspect the damage to LTC in this assembly is done and not fixable in any meaningful way.

 

Next time around I'll be a bit more circumspect before getting enthusiastic. It's going to take a lot more than some sort of mea culpa from Virginia to make this right. Let's see the NRA-ILA bring some money and other resources to the table. A prime time TV ad campaign supporting LTC might be a good place for them to start making amends. By the way, this is now a national black eye for the NRA. This story has now hit some national gun rights blogs such as David Codrea (waronguns.blogspot.com).

[dan]

I am a bit concerned about less than full support for our second amendment rights by the NRA. I have already e mailed them and I await their answers. In my opinion we need to start somewhere with LTC. At least Wisconsin has open carry what do we have? I work in Chicago and live in Will County. Chicago needs LTC more than where I live but as long as Daley calls the shots in Illinois it's not going to happen. I can almost understand the all or nothing mentality because they do not live here. They have LTC where they live and can carry like most of America can. We have been trying that approach for 16 years and it has not worked. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I await their answers.

[mauserme]

If that is the case, if they are imposing their will over the will of the people who grant them power, then they are no better than the politicians who work so feverishly to control us.

 

But I will reserve judgment until Todd or another NRA representative has a chance to respond. And respond they must ..

 

Good point ... but consider the possibility that the will of the people has not, en masse, been communicated to the NRA higher-ups.

I agree with you that communication is terribly important. But at some point common sense should take over even in the absence of communication. I'm not sure we should need to inform the higher-ups they we do not wish to fail. I mean, I can fail sitting on my couch with a can of beer and the TV remote. I don't need asistance for that.

 

And I don't want to sound negative (though I recognize I do at the moment) - I just don't have words to express how I feel about our need to gain the support of the NRA. I understand the need to petition the government, but petition the NRA ?!?!

[Charles Vandercamp]

I'm sorry I'm a lttle late in chiming in but work is what pays the bills.

 

IMHO - We all need to contact the NRA and make them understand that our NRA dues pay their salaries. They work for us, not the other way around.

 

The NRA lobbyist as far as I can see is extremely effective in not losing any ground. Man, in this crummy, corrupt state that is a major accomplishment. However, that just doesn't cut it any more. We are down to the last two states where our God given right of self defense continues to be denied to us and the NRA strategy of "not losing anything is a win" just doesn't cut it anymore. Ms. Molly has said many times that 48 states can't be wrong and that is the message we need to send to the NRA HQ.

 

Fighting to not lose is a poor game plan. We need to convince the fancy suits {that we undoubtedly pay for} that a draw is not the same as winning. If they don't understand that they are not listening.

 

I just sent an e-mail and will follow up on Monday with a fone call but the suits need to listen to us folks in bib overallls.

[Don Gwinn]

Folks, we're getting off the tracks here. We are not trying to gain the support of the NRA for concealed carry; they're committed to that.

 

What we have here is a difference of strategies. The NRA is committed to seeking LTC ONLY if it's statewide with complete pre-emption of all local laws. We don't believe that's the best way to get it passed, because it keeps failing year after year. We believe that making LTC subject to home rule makes it possible to pass it (maybe not this year, but long before a pre-emption-based bill would pass.) What we want the NRA to do is to change its policy to one of supporting both strategies. If the NRA thinks it can get pre-emptive LTC bills passed, we're all for it, but we don't think we can, so we want to pursue a different strategy--and we want the NRA's support when we do it.

 

Just as a matter of perspective, it might help to consider that the ISRA was just as adamantly opposed to subject-to-home-rule bills only a few months ago and for the same reasons. Now they support us. The NRA can and should do the same.

[Thirdpower]

And the only way to get them to consider it is to show them what 'Grassroots Internet Activism' means.

[Kenny]

Scott Christman called me back!! He went on & on but his general message was if they give up anything in IL that it would hurt efforts in the rest of the USA. (bull****) He went on to say if they were to get on board with a STHR bill then they would be admitting that BHO was right when he said "What works in Nebraska may not work in Chicago" I basically got the feeling that he was just trying to pacify me and could really give a **** about LTC here he just doesn't want to lose any ground. I personally say it is time to go all in & go for it!!!

[Ol'Coach]

DG and 3P, your combined posts = TD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ol'Coach]

Scott Christman called me back!! He went on & on but his general message was if they give up anything in IL that it would hurt efforts in the rest of the USA. (bull****) He went on to say if they were to get on board with a STHR bill then they would be admitting that BHO was right when he said "What works in Nebraska may not work in Chicago" I basically got the feeling that he was just trying to pacify me and could really give a **** about LTC here he just doesn't want to lose any ground. I personally say it is time to go all in & go for it!!!

 

 

Exactly what would the NRA be "giving up" by supporting a preemptive LtC bill? Wouldn't there be more gained than lost?

 

I'm asking that of Mr. Christman, not you, Kenny! You do good work, friend!

[Kenny]

Scott Christman called me back!! He went on & on but his general message was if they give up anything in IL that it would hurt efforts in the rest of the USA. (bull****) He went on to say if they were to get on board with a STHR bill then they would be admitting that BHO was right when he said "What works in Nebraska may not work in Chicago" I basically got the feeling that he was just trying to pacify me and could really give a **** about LTC here he just doesn't want to lose any ground. I personally say it is time to go all in & go for it!!!

 

 

Exactly what would the NRA be "giving up" by supporting a preemptive LtC bill? Wouldn't there be more gained than lost?

 

I'm asking that of Mr. Christman, not you, Kenny! You do good work, friend!

 

 

If they were to get behind a STHR bill it would show a weakness in Pennsylvania and Denver that their opponents would be able to use against them. Whatever!!

[lockman]

Does anyone know what the consequences of the home rule opt out is?

 

From what I understand, anyone in the state could get the LTC permit, even Chicago residents. However, if a municipality passed an "opt out" ordinance saying "we don't honor the LTC permit", then no citizen could carry there. As we travel from various towns and cities across the state, yes, it would be confusing. That confusion itself would probably lead to future revisions which aim to eliminate all that confusion, meaning statewide preemption.

 

If someone carried into prohibited home rule areas you could not be charged with a felony. You may face some legal troubles and possible jail time but you would not loose your gun rights. For some that may be worth the risk. If you had to use it I bet you would be protected by the Hale Demar law from local prosecution.

 

Three emails on the way!

[Thirdpower]

Scott Christman called me back!! He went on & on but his general message was if they give up anything in IL that it would hurt efforts in the rest of the USA. (bull****) He went on to say if they were to get on board with a STHR bill then they would be admitting that BHO was right when he said "What works in Nebraska may not work in Chicago" I basically got the feeling that he was just trying to pacify me and could really give a **** about LTC here he just doesn't want to lose any ground. I personally say it is time to go all in & go for it!!!

 

You're right. It's BS. They want an all or nothing bill no matter how many decades it takes.

 

Like WWI Generals, they'll keep throwing us into the fray w/o ever gaining any ground.

 

Has anyone posted this on ARFCOM?

[ilphil]

Since the NRA hasn't exactly been going all out to HELP us here in Illinois, I wish to heck they would at least not work AGAINST us.