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Winnebago County weighs legality of gun resolution


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#91 45superman

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 11:22 AM

Don, my take on this is identical to yours.
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#92 TTIN

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 11:25 AM

View Postspeedracer815, on May 8 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

Slappy, this is NOT the Pro2a resolution. That was passed unanimously in Winnebago some time ago. This a separate, independent resolution specifically allowing RTC in Winnebago County.

BTW, for all you southerners, Illinois's northern border is leading the way.  :Drunk emoticon: Try to catch up will ya? LOL
Speed,all the legislators that I have talked to "down here" are very pro-gun...both Democrat and Republican.....and we don't seem to have all the hassels that our northern brothers and sisters have.However,if you know anything about Ill. politics,our legislators are highly out numbered when it comes to votes.Yes indeed,most all the anti-gun junk comes from the Chicago area,so it would be only right that the breathern "up there" need to be most active in our campain.We downstaters are firmly behind you,but it is up to you guys to vote those duds out of office.
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#93 Buzzard

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 11:53 AM

View Postthetimeisnow, on May 8 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

Yes indeed,most all the anti-gun junk comes from the Chicago area,so it would be only right that the breathern "up there" need to be most active in our campain.
With all due respect.....it's "up OVER there", as in to the north EAST of you southern boys. Speed is in Rockford, not Chicago. And I'm just west of him. And both of my guys are pro gun, as I believe his are.

Just to clarify. (and havin' a little fun.) :sick:
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#94 Kenny

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:09 PM

PAGING RANDY OLSON OR DOUG AURAND

Could you please sign up as a user on this forum and clarify some of these questions? We would all appreciate it. We all will welcome you with open arms.


#95 SirMatthew

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:20 PM

View PostDon Gwinn, on May 8 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

I would be overjoyed if this worked, and I'd start working on Macoupin County board members right away if someone could convince me that I'm not wasting their time, but I have to be the devil's advocate here.

Quote

Here is my question: Is there an Illinois law that specifically forbids concealed carry permits?
There's no law that forbids the permits, but the UUW statute specifically forbids carrying firearms.  Then it sets out legal exemptions, such as unloaded, uncased carry with a FOID card.  A person carrying a loaded gun with a permit from his county doesn't meet the exceptions.  The permit itself is irrelevant as far as the state law goes.
My point is that I don't see how a county ordinance will invalidate the state's law, even within the county's borders.

Someone brought up the point that Chicago "superseded" state law, so this should be OK, too.  I don't believe that's how it works.  The Chicago law is more restrictive at the local level, not less.  A good example of this principle at work is the drug legalization movement.  In California and some other places, marijuana is legal under the right circumstances, under state law.  But it's still illegal under federal law, and the feds will get you for using it.  At the same time, there's nothing keeping local cops from arresting you under the federal statute if the winds change or you get that one guy.  
So, Winnebago County issues you a permit.  Presumably that means nobody working for the Sheriff's office will arrest you for UUW.  But why would the Rockford police or the State Police not arrest you under the UUW statute, and why would that arrest not hold up in court?

Again, it's not that I don't want this to work.  I'm ready to be convinced that it could possibly work.  Can anyone actually answer this one question:

"If a given act is illegal under Illinois law, but not illegal under county law, in a home-rule county, can a resident of the county be arrested and prosecuted under the Illinois law?"
I believe he can, but I'm not a lawyer.

This was kind of the point I was aiming for in my first post.  I believe (I'm not a lawyer either) they would be arrested by a non-Winnebago cop.  The issuance of permits seem to be legal, but does the permit have any face value?  In court is where the real challenge begins.  I may be incredibly naive, but one line of thought goes like this:    

U.S. Constitution allows the right to keep and bear arms.
Illinois Constitution allows right, subject to police power (whatever "police power" really means).
Illinois restricts a lot concerning guns, but does not specifically prohibit the issuance of CC permits.
Winnebago county issues permits legally to qualifying county citizens.
Citizens can carry in Winnebago only because county police are not enforcing state laws, but honoring permits instead.
Citizens issued permits find themselves arrested by ISP for violating a state gun law (carrying concealed weapon).
Court has to interpret a big mess.

A judge might simply say state law overrules county without giving this matter deeper thought.  In that case we'd find out the permits are legal to issue, but they have no face value.  They are useless pieces of paper, a novelty.  If this is the case then the sheriff would simply stop wasting his time in issuing them.  The "suspect" would be convicted of their criminal charge and then appeal to a higher court.  Their challenge?  Why do the permits not have value when they were legally issued?  Again, they could simply look at state law maintain the conviction.  However, with a good attorney, we just might have a chance at winning.  Unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

All in all, I don't think the issuance of the permits will be all that big of a legal hassle.  Defending those permits in court will be a big, long, and expensive struggle.  It would be easier to defend if all Pro 2A counties passed this resolution.  Helping this cause might be the attention given by the media to a court case challenge.  A positive ruling in the Heller case would help too.  Fighting against it would be an incredibly biased Chicago political system so the chances of victory are small, but at least there is a chance.
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#96 Kenny

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:26 PM

I just talked to Randy Olson and he gave me the update on who is with us and a few mabye's

View Postpolhms1, on May 8 2008, 06:02 AM, said:

I have put a note by the board members name that I have talked to.


View Postpolhms1, on May 7 2008, 04:07 PM, said:

WINNEBAGO COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS
CHAIRMAN SCOTT H. CHRISTIANSEN
404 ELM STREET, ROOM 533, ROCKFORD, IL 61101 (815) 319-4225




R-9       AIELLO, MARY ANN                              She is on board
2010 521 Renrose Avenue
Loves Park, IL 61111
(H) 877-6833

D-3 AURAND, DOUGLAS R.                             He is on board
2010 P.O. Box 16026
Loves Park, IL 61132-6026
(:sick: 633-9382
(Voice Mail) 319-4243

D-12 DUCKETT, GEORGE ANNE
2010 429 Orchard Park 61101-6401
(H) 963-4720

R-10 EKBERG, JOHN                                                     He is with us
2010 1804 Colorado Ave 61108
(H) 395-1955
(:console: 398-4150, ext. 222                                                     The smilies are acctually the business phone # (:)

D-11 ELYEA, KAREN
2008 1302 Broadway 61104
(H) 316-0258

R-4 FIDUCCIA, DAVE                                      Neither Randy or I have talked to him yet but guessing YES
2010 1055 Castlehill Dr 61107
(H) 332-3416

R-14 GAMBINO, FRANK M.
2010 5691 Rainsford Way 61107
(H) 282-1957
(B) 637-0113

D-7 GORAL, ANGIE                                        She said no but would reconsider if her constitiuiants said yes
2010 1108 N. Rockton Ave 61103        or if I send the gun owners fact sheet with all the stats &
(H) 964-0686                                              surveys to her and it makes sense.

D-5 GORSKI, PAUL
2010 4583 Scenic Dr 61109
(H) 874-2916

R-4 HARMON, JOHN H.                                 Neither Randy or I have talked to him yet but guessing YES
2008 806 Phelps Ave. 61108
(H) 397-5166

D-13 HASTINGS,  BOB
2010 1728 Constitution Place 61103
(H) 633-4254

D-6 HAWKS, PEARL                                                 She wants to see the gun owners fact sheets she is on
2010 713 Lexington Ave 61102                 fence neither here nor there
(H) 963-2670

D-11 HOFFMAN, KAREN                                            She is a definate NO I debated with her for over an hour
2010 3323 Carolina Ave 61108                 No opening her eyes at all.
(H) 399-5026

D-8 JOHNSON, PHILLIP                                      He said NO but will look at the Gun facts 4.2 that I sent him
2008 4665 Terrang Trl
Machesney Park, IL 61115
(H) 633-7312

R-10 KINNISON, BOB                                      Neither Randy or I have talked to him yet but guessing YES  
2008 1620 S Trainer Rd 61108
(H) 395-1654

R-3 LOGAN, KYLE                                                      He is with us.
2008 7069 Mullinshire Way
Machesney Park, IL 61115
© 979-6673

R-5 MACKAY, PETER                                                   He is with us
2008 7030 Horizon Drive 61109
(H) 962-7031
(B) 962-7313

R-1 OLSON, RANDAL                                                 He is definatly with us
2010 6423 Thedorff Rd
Pecatonica, IL   61063
(H) 239-2716
(B) 262-1662

R-1 OWENS, TOM                                                  He is with us  
2008 3811 Westlake Village Drive
Winnebago, IL 61088
(H) 335-7591

D-8 PARIS, MELVIN
2010 8220 Scott Lane 61115
(H) 654-1124

R-13 POLLACK, RICK
2008 112 Lawn Place 61103
(H) 963-1047

D-6 REDD, DOROTHY
2008 431 Homestead Ln 61102
(H) 964-8920
(B) 966-3251

R-14 SWEENEY, JOHN F.                                     He is with us
2008 3811 Burrmont Rd 61107
© 262-5769

R-7 VECCHIO, KELLY                                           She is with us
2008 321 West State St, Suite 1204 61101
(B) 962-4019

R- 2 WEBSTER, JIM                                                 He is with us
2008 16205 Boswell Rd
Rockton, IL 61072
(H) 629-2014

R-9 WESCOTT, FRED                                                 He is with us
2008 4102 Martina Dr 61114
(815) 708-6006

D-12 WILSON, L.C.
2008 2615 Arthur Ave
Rockford, IL 61101
(H) 962-6108
(B) 633-7460 ex 515

R-2 YESKE, DAVE                                            Neither Randy or I have talked to him yet but guessing YES
2010 11554 Cedar Brook Rd
Roscoe, IL 61073
(hm) 623-8167



#97 Kenny

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:29 PM

Anybody on this list  that doesn't have a yes by their name please call and let them know how many of us there are.


#98 SirMatthew

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:31 PM

[quote name='polhms1' date='May 8 2008, 01:26 PM' post='87468']
I just talked to Randy Olson and he gave me the update on who is with us and a few mabye's

[quote name='polhms1' post='87335' date='May 8 2008, 06:02 AM']I have put a note by the board members name that I have talked to.

Out of 28, 11 confirm yes.  Am I thinking only 4 of those potential "maybes" need to vote "yes" to see this resolution pass full board vote?
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means." -- Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810.

#99 TTIN

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:37 PM

View PostBuzzard, on May 8 2008, 12:53 PM, said:

View Postthetimeisnow, on May 8 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

Yes indeed,most all the anti-gun junk comes from the Chicago area,so it would be only right that the breathern "up there" need to be most active in our campain.
With all due respect.....it's "up OVER there", as in to the north EAST of you southern boys. Speed is in Rockford, not Chicago. And I'm just west of him. And both of my guys are pro gun, as I believe his are.

Just to clarify. (and havin' a little fun.) :console:
Just to be very clear here,I am NOT trying to start a North/South feud as we are all in this together and need each others help.That being said,I know that most people think that "downstaters" are anyone south of Kankakee,more or less.So I can suspect that these people know very little about Southern Illinois,which to us is anything south of I-70.We do have it better here with regards to gun ownership and transportation,and our legislators do believe in the citizens rights to own and use guns.
I know that you were just poking fun Buzzard,and yes some friendly badgering is fine as we all need a break from such serious matters from time to time.

Keep up the good fight!!!! :sick:
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#100 Buzzard

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:46 PM

View Postthetimeisnow, on May 8 2008, 01:37 PM, said:

...we are all in this together and need each others help.
Keep up the good fight!!!! :sick:

Absolutely!!
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#101 GWBH

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:51 PM

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#102 Kenny

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:54 PM

View PostSirMatthew, on May 8 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

Out of 28, 11 confirm yes.  Am I thinking only 4 of those potential "maybes" need to vote "yes" to see this resolution pass full board vote?

There are 4 people that haven't been talked to that Randy thinks will sign on to the resolution totaling 15 board members signed onto this resolution 15 out of 28 There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?


#103 SirMatthew

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:00 PM

View Postpolhms1, on May 8 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

View PostSirMatthew, on May 8 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

Out of 28, 11 confirm yes.  Am I thinking only 4 of those potential "maybes" need to vote "yes" to see this resolution pass full board vote?

There are 4 people that haven't been talked to that Randy thinks will sign on to the resolution totaling 15 board members signed onto this resolution 15 out of 28 There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?

Sounds like this is really going to go through.  May I ask a question to everyone?

Assuming it does pass in Winnebago county, yet hasn't been tested in court yet---

Should we work as hard as we can to get other counties to do the same?  If so, can we get a copy of the final resolution to start circulating around the state?

Downside:  This is an untested resolution which very well may not hold up in court.  Would we be jumping the gun by asking counties to considering something that hasn't been proven to work?

Just curious as to what the game plan might be as I'm willing to work hard on this too.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means." -- Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810.

#104 45superman

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:15 PM

View Postpolhms1, on May 8 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?

According to this story, the board will discuss it (I don't know about voting on it)"Thursday"--whether that means tonight, next week, or some other Thursday, I don't know:

Quote

Aurand and a Republican counterpart on the Winnebago County Board will bring forward a resolution at Thursday night's board meeting asking for Winnebago County residents to be allowed to carry concealed firearms, after meeting certain requirements.

I see there is a board meeting planned for 6:00 tonight.
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#105 jfsweeney

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:19 PM

View Post45superman, on May 8 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

View Postpolhms1, on May 8 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?

According to this story, the board will discuss it (I don't know about voting on it )"Thursday"--whether that means tonight, next week, or some other Thursday, I don't know:

Quote

Aurand and a Republican counterpart on the Winnebago County Board will bring forward a resolution at Thursday night's board meeting asking for Winnebago County residents to be allowed to carry concealed firearms, after meeting certain requirements.

I see there is a board meeting planned for 6:00 tonight.


#106 Kenny

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:29 PM

View Post45superman, on May 8 2008, 02:15 PM, said:

View Postpolhms1, on May 8 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?

According to this story, the board will discuss it (I don't know about voting on it )"Thursday"--whether that means tonight, next week, or some other Thursday, I don't know:

Quote

Aurand and a Republican counterpart on the Winnebago County Board will bring forward a resolution at Thursday night's board meeting asking for Winnebago County residents to be allowed to carry concealed firearms, after meeting certain requirements.

I see there is a board meeting planned for 6:00 tonight.

Thear is a board meeting tonight this will be brought up and sent to committee then in the committiee meeting they will schedule the public forum then I will announce it here and everyone can post it on other boards and get as many people to go as humanly possible (mabye have to use the metro center) I talked to Randy and he is going to try to get Doug to sign up on here and answer some questions.


#107 jfsweeney

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:30 PM

[quote name='jfsweeney' post='87498' date='May 8 2008, 01:19 PM'][quote name='45superman' post='87496' date='May 8 2008, 01:15 PM'][quote name='polhms1' post='87486' date='May 8 2008, 01:54 PM']There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?[/quote]

According to [url="http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/18753794"]this story[/url], the board will discuss it (I don't know about voting on it )"Thursday"--whether that means tonight, next week, or some other Thursday, I don't know:

[quote]Aurand and a Republican counterpart on the Winnebago County Board will bring forward a resolution at Thursday night's board meeting asking for Winnebago County residents to be allowed to carry concealed firearms, after meeting certain requirements.[/quote]

I see there [url="http://www.co.winnebago.il.us/AdvHTML_Uploads/fileUploads/CountyBoardAgenda5-8-08.pdf"]is a board meeting[/url] planned for 6:00 tonight.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Hello all, this is John F Sweeney.  I represent the 14th District in Winnebago County.  I've been reading the discussion on the forum, and there are those of us who appreciate your support.  I don't believe we can for sure say how the state is going to react to this, but we all know it's the right thing to do.  If our state isn't going to stand behind law abiding citizens, then we need to do what we can.  Randy Olson is appointing myself and two other members from our Executive Committee to a sub committee to tweak the wording of our resolution. Stay tuned.

#108 Buzzard

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:38 PM

View PostSirMatthew, on May 8 2008, 02:00 PM, said:

Sounds like this is really going to go through.  May I ask a question to everyone?
Assuming it does pass in Winnebago county, yet hasn't been tested in court yet---
Should we work as hard as we can to get other counties to do the same?  If so, can we get a copy of the final resolution to start circulating around the state?
I think we should continue to focus on the 2A resolution which has momentum. While it is a non-binding document it has huge symbolism and clearly defines the political position of these counties. We can then use this coalition of pro2A counties as a lobbying tool in the future.

This Winnebago CCW resolution could be discussed and debated for weeks, if not months to come. And that's good even if it does not pass because it has further entered the public debate.

Quote

Downside:  This is an untested resolution which very well may not hold up in court.  Would we be jumping the gun by asking counties to considering something that hasn't been proven to work?
Yes, we would definitely be jumping the gun and wasting peoples time and spending our political capital. I see no harm in showing our full support of Winnebago county's efforts to bring concealed carry to their county. As long as it is done in such a way as not to harm efforts to bring concealed carry to all of Illinois. But I feel it would be prudent to watch this for a while and see how it develops.

View Postjfsweeney, on May 8 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

Hello all, this is John F Sweeney.  I represent the 14th District in Winnebago County.  I've been reading the discussion on the forum, and there are those of us who appreciate your support.  I don't believe we can for sure say how the state is going to react to this, but we all know it's the right thing to do.  If our state isn't going to stand behind law abiding citizens, then we need to do what we can.  Randy Olson is appointing myself and two other members from our Executive Committee to a sub committee to tweak the wording of our resolution. Stay tuned.
Welcome to the board, John!
You're a big hero around here!!

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#109 SirMatthew

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:42 PM

[quote name='Buzzard' post='87504' date='May 8 2008, 02:38 PM'][quote name='SirMatthew' post='87488' date='May 8 2008, 02:00 PM']Sounds like this is really going to go through.  May I ask a question to everyone?
Assuming it does pass in Winnebago county, yet hasn't been tested in court yet---
Should we work as hard as we can to get other counties to do the same?  If so, can we get a copy of the final resolution to start circulating around the state?[/quote]
I think we should continue to focus on the 2A resolution which has momentum. While it is a non-binding document it has huge symbolism and clearly defines the political position of these counties. We can then use this coalition of pro2A counties as a lobbying tool in the future.

This Winnebago CCW resolution could be discussed and debated for weeks, if not months to come. And that's good even if it does not pass because it has further entered the public debate.

[quote]Downside:  This is an untested resolution which very well may not hold up in court.  Would we be jumping the gun by asking counties to considering something that hasn't been proven to work?[/quote]
Yes, we would definitely be jumping the gun and wasting peoples time and spending our political capital. I see no harm in showing our full support of Winnebago county's efforts to bring concealed carry to their county. As long as it is done in such a way as not to harm efforts to bring concealed carry to all of Illinois. But I feel it would be prudent to watch this for a while and see how it developes.

[quote name='jfsweeney' post='87503' date='May 8 2008, 02:30 PM']Hello all, this is John F Sweeney.  I represent the 14th District in Winnebago County.  I've been reading the discussion on the forum, and there are those of us who appreciate your support.  I don't believe we can for sure say how the state is going to react to this, but we all know it's the right thing to do.  If our state isn't going to stand behind law abiding citizens, then we need to do what we can.  Randy Olson is appointing myself and two other members from our Executive Committee to a sub committee to tweak the wording of our resolution. Stay tuned.[/quote]
Welcome to the board, John!
You're a big hero around here!!

[/quote]

Points well taken and I agree, I'll stay focused on the Pro 2A Resolution.  

Yes, a big welcome John!  Thanks so much for all your efforts!!
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means." -- Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810.

#110 Slappy

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:02 PM

View Postjfsweeney, on May 8 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

Hello all, this is John F Sweeney.  I represent the 14th District in Winnebago County.  I've been reading the discussion on the forum, and there are those of us who appreciate your support.  I don't believe we can for sure say how the state is going to react to this, but we all know it's the right thing to do.  If our state isn't going to stand behind law abiding citizens, then we need to do what we can.  Randy Olson is appointing myself and two other members from our Executive Committee to a sub committee to tweak the wording of our resolution. Stay tuned.


Welcome and Outstanding! We need men like you in office!!!

Please keep us up to date and we will help in any way we can!!! :sick:
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed! Lets keep em coming!

#111 Kenny

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:03 PM

View Postpolhms1, on May 8 2008, 01:09 PM, said:

PAGING RANDY OLSON OR DOUG AURAND

Could you please sign up as a user on this forum and clarify some of these questions? We would all appreciate it. We all will welcome you with open arms.

UMMM or John Sweeney    :sick:


#112 GarandFan

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:19 PM

View Postjfsweeney, on May 8 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

Hello all, this is John F Sweeney.  I represent the 14th District in Winnebago County.

Welcome to the board, John.  We appreciate your efforts, and support.  And we are here to help....some very talented and educated people here, with a desire to work and a penchant for success in their endeavors.
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
Lewis Carroll, 1872

#113 Ol'Coach

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:20 PM

Quote

As I see it, the Winnebago county board would be directing the Sheriff to issue Winnebago county only concealed carry permits. Whether they can do this....I'd say the legal authority issue would have to be decided at some point in a court of law. The sooner the better.

So, this means that Winnebago County would have to establish its own system for issuing apps, accepting apps, processing apps, and verifying whatever requisites demanded have been met.  Not to mention the "out-of-county stuff...reciprocity, etc.  

In other words, they would have to establish their own system, from the ground up, correct?



I'm all for 'em but I just don't see how they can make it work!!!
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#114 MARKHOLSTRUM

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:27 PM

They could just do like VT and say do whatever you want.....or just make the foid a valid ccw permit within their borders....

truthfully I think this would violate the 10th amendment.  :sick:
"Squat and drop DOES NOT make one a U.S. citizen!" - 2ndAmendmentforever

Islamofascism didn't kill 50,000,000 people.....but Roe v Wade did.......

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#115 jfsweeney

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:31 PM

There will soon be an email address created, and the idea is that you folks can send statistics and information to help our committee gather information.  I hope to have this email address posted here on this site sometime tomorrow (Friday, May 9th).  Thanks you guys.

#116 GarandFan

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:38 PM

View Postjfsweeney, on May 8 2008, 03:31 PM, said:

There will soon be an email address created, and the idea is that you folks can send statistics and information to help our committee gather information.  I hope to have this email address posted here on this site sometime tomorrow (Friday, May 9th).  Thanks you guys.

This might be the single most relevant document per your request.  It's recent, it's independent, it's professional, and it was developed just across your northern border (in the only other "No Issue" state).  I will send it also to the email address for organizational purposes...but there might be some here who remain unaware of this useful report.

Wisconsin Policy Research Institute Report - Concealed carry: an examination of the facts

http://www.wpri.org/...19/Vol19no4.pdf
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
Lewis Carroll, 1872

#117 Slappy

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:55 PM

I'm very well versed in International Politics and law and can provide you with analysis of English and Australian firearm ban information, if you need it.

Its good to know that entire nations around the globe have seen no benefit whatsoever from weapons ban like what we have in Illinois.

I many fine articles and links on the subject!

:sick:
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#118 bob

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:21 PM

View PostDon Gwinn, on May 8 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

"If a given act is illegal under Illinois law, but not illegal under county law, in a home-rule county, can a resident of the county be arrested and prosecuted under the Illinois law?"
I believe he can, but I'm not a lawyer.
I am not sure there is an answer to this question. The Illinois constitution regarding home rule powers is very vague. I suspect that an application of this power in this kind of case has never been to the Illinois Supreme Court before.
bob

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#119 Vandal

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:56 PM

[quote name='jfsweeney' post='87503' date='May 8 2008, 02:30 PM'][quote name='jfsweeney' post='87498' date='May 8 2008, 01:19 PM'][quote name='45superman' post='87496' date='May 8 2008, 01:15 PM'][quote name='polhms1' post='87486' date='May 8 2008, 01:54 PM']There may be a public forum on this issue in the next month or so can I count on people showing up like they did in Naperville?[/quote]

According to [url="http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/18753794"]this story[/url], the board will discuss it (I don't know about voting on it )"Thursday"--whether that means tonight, next week, or some other Thursday, I don't know:

[quote]Aurand and a Republican counterpart on the Winnebago County Board will bring forward a resolution at Thursday night's board meeting asking for Winnebago County residents to be allowed to carry concealed firearms, after meeting certain requirements.[/quote]

I see there [url="http://www.co.winnebago.il.us/AdvHTML_Uploads/fileUploads/CountyBoardAgenda5-8-08.pdf"]is a board meeting[/url] planned for 6:00 tonight.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Hello all, this is John F Sweeney.  I represent the 14th District in Winnebago County.  I've been reading the discussion on the forum, and there are those of us who appreciate your support.  I don't believe we can for sure say how the state is going to react to this, but we all know it's the right thing to do.  If our state isn't going to stand behind law abiding citizens, then we need to do what we can.  Randy Olson is appointing myself and two other members from our Executive Committee to a sub committee to tweak the wording of our resolution. Stay tuned.
[/quote]

John:

Thanks for your support!  As a resident of your District, YOU GOT MY VOTE!!
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

#120 junglebob

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 05:45 PM

View Postbob, on May 8 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

View PostDon Gwinn, on May 8 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

"If a given act is illegal under Illinois law, but not illegal under county law, in a home-rule county, can a resident of the county be arrested and prosecuted under the Illinois law?"
I believe he can, but I'm not a lawyer.
I am not sure there is an answer to this question. The Illinois constitution regarding home rule powers is very vague. I suspect that an application of this power in this kind of case has never been to the Illinois Supreme Court before.
Anyone remember that pizza delivery guy in Wisconsin who was robbed a few times, was conceal carrying the first time, it went to court and judge told him not to do it again.   He goes unarmed and gets robbed and assaulted I believe, starts carrying again pulls gun on robber he's charged and case ends up going to the supreme court.   The supreme court rules in his favor saying he had no choice but to carry, essentially.  Who knows if the right folks are on the court a ruling could come out in our favor.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)




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