508 replies to this topic

[GarandFan]

NOTE - this is a timely example of the positive effect of carry.  This should be a discussion point up in Winnebago county.

From the Reno, NV newspaper.  

Man walks into a bar and starts shooting folks....two brothers killed, two more wounded.  A customer with a CHL (NV does not infringe the rights of bar-goers) draws and kills the murderer.  Did he stop another "mass murder?"  Perhaps.  Who knows.  But we know he stopped someone who had just killed two and injured 2 more.

Look how even there in NV the role of the hero is downplayed....the title: "Three shootings" effectively equates the two murders to the one justified killing of the murderer.  About the only positive thing said is: "He was just some random guy in jeans and a shirt who happened to be there," Hayes said. "I was just glad that there was somebody there who was able to help us out."

Let's wait to see if this hits national news.....  Holding breath now.  OK, I won't hold my breath.  John Lott might pick up on it....but even then it probably won't hit the MSM.

http://rgj.com/apps/...EWS10/805270350

[Kenny]

I made up these flyers to put up at local businesses. I am looking for input on wording or if you think is is good enough let me know. I want to print these off & put them out today.

ALERT!!!!
The Winnebago County Board is trying to pass Concealed Carry in Winnebago County. We need your help to support this issue. There is a sub-committee meeting on June 10th at 5:30 at Memorial Hall in Rockford, then every other Tuesday after that. We need people at the meetings to show our support. If you have any questions call Kenny 815-703-1974 or for more information on the subject go to www.Illinoiscarry.com


They are on a full page Flyer though it fills the whole page on the same green paper as the buttons.

[junglebob]

flagtag, on May 28 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

Blacksmith58, on May 26 2008, 11:39 PM, said:

I want to say that I believe we all are passionate about our guns and the right to keep them. This is granted to us by the constitution. What we are dealing with here is a mindset of the likes of Pearl and those two nitwits that wrote for the Rockford Red Star. They are already calling us Wyatt Earp and saying that we don't have the temperment to be able to control ourselves and our guns.

These are the mental midgits that we face as obsticals on this path. We can resite the 2nd Ammendment and our rights all day long like we have been for the passed 20 years and look where we are today. What we need is a new strategy to educate and persuade the opposition to our side. I’m not suggesting that we give in or compromise our position, just change a tactics to reach the fence sitters. This is why I keep stressing Personal & Family Protection, Safety and Security.

The use of Pro-Choice is really applicable in this case because the State of Illinois gives us NO CHOICE for personal protection other than what God gave us. Besides, the words "Pro-Choice" are not patented and we can educate folks to our cause with it simply because it drawls attention because of the implied misuse. The web site address on the bottom of the button could direct folks to the website for detailed information for concealed carry. We all know that an armed society is a polite society. The facts support this.

I just think we need to be smarter than our opponents and keep this battle/campaign professional, tactful, factual and not personal. What ever the buttons say, we should be unified in their display.

Guaranteed by the Constitution.  Or recognized as what is ours naturally, without requiring permission from anyone or anything.  

Could the "nitwit" articles or letters from the Rockford Star be posted, or is there a Rockford Star website where they are posted.   If they were posted here those of us who don't have access to the Rockford paper could critique them.

[Kenny]

How about this LTE I wrote it. I did not do very good in lit or english classes in HS and have not gotten any better with age so please pick it apart and let me know what I should change or delete or scrap the whole thing I want to send a LTE of the Rockford Register Star and I think I can get it printed but I want it to be good but not flawless because I want people that know me to believe I wrote it. Have at it boys. (and girls)


Concealed carry is a great thing. In 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. The anti-gun lobby has used emotion against this issue for so long that people seem to have been against this issue. As of late people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes, really do not care about the laws. The law abiding citizen however will not carry a weapon for self defense because, it is against the law. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry the criminals no longer know who has a weapon on them or not. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob, or carjack could defend themselves.  The criminal has to weigh their options. It seems in stories I have read that many times the mere sight of a gun thwarts a crime. The criminal after being presented with a life threatening situation may rethink his profession, and move on to a less violent career. People that would be getting CC permits are all law abiding citizens, I can say that because they would have to pass a criminal background check, and submit fingerprints to the FBI to keep on file. The people with a CC permit would not pull their weapon out because someone cuts them off in traffic. They want to keep their permit and their guns, therefore they do not want to break the law. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my weapon as a last option to protect my life, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with footnotes from where the information came from. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.Illinoiscarry.com

[Blacksmith58]

junglebob, on May 29 2008, 07:13 AM, said:

flagtag, on May 28 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

Blacksmith58, on May 26 2008, 11:39 PM, said:

I want to say that I believe we all are passionate about our guns and the right to keep them. This is granted to us by the constitution. What we are dealing with here is a mindset of the likes of Pearl and those two nitwits that wrote for the Rockford Red Star. They are already calling us Wyatt Earp and saying that we don't have the temperment to be able to control ourselves and our guns.

These are the mental midgits that we face as obsticals on this path. We can resite the 2nd Ammendment and our rights all day long like we have been for the passed 20 years and look where we are today. What we need is a new strategy to educate and persuade the opposition to our side. I’m not suggesting that we give in or compromise our position, just change a tactics to reach the fence sitters. This is why I keep stressing Personal & Family Protection, Safety and Security.

The use of Pro-Choice is really applicable in this case because the State of Illinois gives us NO CHOICE for personal protection other than what God gave us. Besides, the words "Pro-Choice" are not patented and we can educate folks to our cause with it simply because it drawls attention because of the implied misuse. The web site address on the bottom of the button could direct folks to the website for detailed information for concealed carry. We all know that an armed society is a polite society. The facts support this.

I just think we need to be smarter than our opponents and keep this battle/campaign professional, tactful, factual and not personal. What ever the buttons say, we should be unified in their display.

Guaranteed by the Constitution.  Or recognized as what is ours naturally, without requiring permission from anyone or anything.  

Could the "nitwit" articles or letters from the Rockford Star be posted, or is there a Rockford Star website where they are posted.   If they were posted here those of us who don't have access to the Rockford paper could critique them.

junglebob: you can go back in this string of responses to page 16, authored by kaeghl. repeated a couple of time there after. You'll see the mental migits responses from the antis!

[cberan]

polhms1, on May 29 2008, 07:21 AM, said:

How about this LTE I wrote it. I did not do very good in lit or english classes in HS and have not gotten any better with age so please pick it apart and let me know what I should change or delete or scrap the whole thing I want to send a LTE of the Rockford Register Star and I think I can get it printed but I want it to be good but not flawless because I want people that know me to believe I wrote it. Have at it boys. (and girls)


Concealed carry is a great thing. In 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. The anti-gun lobby has used emotion against this issue for so long that people seem to have been against this issue. As of late people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes, really do not care about the laws. The law abiding citizen however will not carry a weapon for self defense because, it is against the law. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry the criminals no longer know who has a weapon on them or not. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob, or carjack could defend themselves.  The criminal has to weigh their options. It seems in stories I have read that many times the mere sight of a gun thwarts a crime. The criminal after being presented with a life threatening situation may rethink his profession, and move on to a less violent career. People that would be getting CC permits are all law abiding citizens, I can say that because they would have to pass a criminal background check, and submit fingerprints to the FBI to keep on file. The people with a CC permit would not pull their weapon out because someone cuts them off in traffic. They want to keep their permit and their guns, therefore they do not want to break the law. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my weapon as a last option to protect my life, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with footnotes from where the information came from. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.Illinoiscarry.com

Concealed carry is a great thing. In 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. The anti-gun lobby have used emotion against this issue for so long that people seem to have been against this issue. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes, really don't care about the laws. The law abiding citizen however will not carry a weapon for self defense because it's against the law. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry the criminals no longer know who has a weapon on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves.  The criminal has to weigh their options. It seems in stories I have read that many times the mere sight of a gun thwarts a crime. The criminal after being presented with a life threatening situation may rethink his profession, and move on to a less violent career. People that would be getting CC permits are all law abiding citizens, I can say that because they would have to pass a criminal background check, and submit fingerprints to the FBI to keep on file. The people with a CC permit would not pull their weapon out because someone cuts them off in traffic. They want to keep their permit and their rights, therefore they do not want to break the law. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my weapon as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with footnotes from where the information came from. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.Illinoiscarry.com

Very nice Kenny, I added some stuff, but by know means am I perfect at writing either.

[armueller2001]

I just made a few changes... added a couple statistics. Good job Kenny

Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates? The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun. Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

[SAK]

That info you posted before was great, junglebob.  I also liked the info about the NV shootings.  A simliar shooting at a bar occurred in NH a year or so ago.  Gangbanger fired at a bouncer, CCW customer inside came out and most likely saved the bouncer's life.  Perp was shot, and fled down the street.  Angry mob (I'd be angry too if someone interrupted my evening at the bar with violent, unprovoked gunfire) chased perp down the street and held him until the police got there.

[junglebob]

Polhms1,  Your letter has good content, however you wrote it as I so often post, in one big paragraph.   It would look better if broken down into paragraphs, but being challenged in that area I am not the best one to suggest how you do it.

[cberan]

armueller2001, on May 29 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I just made a few changes... added a couple statistics. Good job Kenny

Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates? The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun. Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

^^^ I really like that, good job.

[cberan]

armueller2001, on May 29 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I just made a few changes... added a couple statistics. Good job Kenny

Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates? The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun. Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

   Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates?

   The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun.

   Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense.

  I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder.
  
I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

^^^Like this?

[Kenny]

armueller2001, on May 29 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I just made a few changes... added a couple statistics. Good job Kenny

Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates? The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun. Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

Is it OK to use this copy with my name on it? I plan on sending it through e-mail and faxing it to a few different papers.

[armueller2001]

polhms1, on May 29 2008, 11:04 AM, said:

armueller2001, on May 29 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I just made a few changes... added a couple statistics. Good job Kenny

Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates? The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun. Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

Is it OK to use this copy with my name on it? I plan on sending it through e-mail and faxing it to a few different papers.

Go right ahead... hopefully some other members can improve on mine a bit as well

[flagtag]

cberan, on May 29 2008, 11:00 AM, said:

armueller2001, on May 29 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I just made a few changes... added a couple statistics. Good job Kenny

Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates? The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun. Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense. I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder. I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

   Concealed carry is a great concept and in 48 states that have adopted concealed carry, crime rates have gone down significantly; FBI studies have proven this fact. Why are the lives of Illinoisans (spelling?) any less valuable than people in these other states, and the politicians here that have their own personal security guards? Is it a coincidence that Chicago and Washington D.C. have the strictest gun laws in the nation AND some of the highest murder/violent crime rates?

   The anti-gun lobby has used emotion as an argument against this issue for so long that many people are misinformed on this topic. As of late, people are starting to see through all the rhetoric and realize that the people who are committing the crimes really don't care about the laws. Why will a gangbanger or burglar obey a law that prohibits carrying of firearms if they're already in the commission of a crime? The law abiding citizens however will not carry for self-defense because it's against the law. Numerous studies have shown that firearms are used in self-defense at least 1.5 million times every year in the U.S. If Winnebago County passes concealed carry, the criminals will no longer know who has a firearm on them or who doesn't. With concealed carry it becomes a gamble if the person they are going to mug, rob,rape, murder or carjack could defend themselves. Interviews with convicted felons confirm that they are more scared of citizens with firearms than the police, and most would not "mess with" someone if they thought they might have a gun.

   Self-defense does not require violence; over 99% of the time a shot is never fired but the mere display of a firearm stops the crime in progress. People that go through the background checks, training and fingerprinting to obtain CC permits are not the ones committing violent crimes or shooting up schools. The existence of concealed carry in 48 other states has shown that the "wild west" scenario where people shoot each other over fender-benders has simply not happened. These law abiding citizens are responsible, and want to keep their right to self-defense.

  I know as a gun collector, I would not risk losing my collection over something trivial. I would only use my firearm as a last option to protect my life or my loved ones, as would any other permit holder.
  
I urge anybody who has any concerns about this issue to find a copy of Gun Facts 4.2. It has all proven facts with references to studies that back it up. I know for a fact that there is a copy on the homepage of www.IllinoisCarry.com

^^^Like this?

This is much better.  If a paragraph is too long, one tends to lose track of which line he/she is on and seperate, but related, thoughts might be missed.

[Kenny]

I sent it in but t is too long to be a letter to the editor. He is going to run it as a guest column or somthing but it will be a few weeks before it runs. The LTE's have to be 200 words or less. So if anyone wants to send one make it is under 200 words & send them he said he will print them if we send them.

[RIR]

Quote

Only two states—Wisconsin and Illinois—prohibit carrying firearms for protection

Hi all from the FNG.  I don't mean to start a debate over this, but if your gonna argue 48 states remember WI is an open carry state.  
Technically IL is the ONLY state the forbids carry.

[GarandFan]

Welcome to the site, RIR!  We are glad you are here.  There were some maps circulating that showed IL as the "only one."

Good point that's well-taken.

[Kaeghl]

Buzzard, on May 27 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

We really should make the effort to voice our support with letters to the Rockford Register Star. Especially you Winnebago folks! This is the only way we will have any idea if the paper is publishing the PRO concealed carry letters. If you have sent a letter and it hasn't been published, be sure to post it here or let someone attending the committee meetings know. That way we can rebuff any claims of no PRO letters getting printed. Let's show our support!!

Just got done checking with the paper about my LTE, and it's in the que to be published. I asked about the ratio of Pro vs Anti CCW, and the lady on the line said if she would guess, it's about 3 to 1 Pro. This is a subject that isn't really a one-week-wonder-topic, but something that has 'legs' for the long haul, discussion-wise.

What I submitted........

*********************************

For far too long, the corrupt political machine based in Chicago has denied the residents of this state the status of "Citizen".

"Citizens" are empowered by the US Constitution recognition of their right to have the ability to protect their lives, the lives of their loved ones and their community from the actions of criminals.

When this resolution becomes the standard practice here, criminals will know that here in Winnebago County we  are citizens, not slaves to be robbed, raped or murdered.

I would hope the paper would print just the number of License to Carry permits issued to let the criminals know it's not safe for them here. LARGE type, just above the headline would do nicely.

Kudos to Board Members Aurand and Olson. The county board members that vote for and enact this proposal into law in this county will garner the thanks (and future votes) of Citizens of Winnebago county.

Likewise, the board members that vote against it will be getting thanks from the robbers, muggers, car-jackers and rapists that plague our county, for making it possible for them to do their work here and not have to move elsewhere.

Thank you,

K. Alan Davis
****************************

3 to 1 is still a bit close for something important like this, my friends. IF you haven't put thoughts to paper (or e-mail) yet, PLEASE help us with this. Consider it a chance to bring to the public's attention  the benefits and importance of our 2nd Amendment rights.

[Kenny]

This is my LTE:

Winnebago County is in the middle of a debate to have concealed carry in our county
What we really have to ask here is “Why is concealed carry so good”?
All we have to do is look at all the states that have passed it. Thirty-six states have “shall issue”. This means if you apply and you have no felony record, they have to issue you a permit.
These states have had no problem with the concealed carry laws they have in place. The biggest part of this is that wherever it has passed, crime has dropped significantly!
The bad guys usually attack a person knowing they are unarmed, but when they face the possibility of being shot or killed for their wrong intentions they hesitate.
The Wild West everyone has referred to has not happened. If the State of Illinois won’t give the people of our county the right of self-defense in public, then I believe our County should!
Everyone who values their right given by our forefathers to protect our life from criminals, should take the time to attend these meetings and stand up and be counted. The life you save may be your own!

[cberan]

Kaeghl, on May 30 2008, 01:03 PM, said:

Buzzard, on May 27 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

We really should make the effort to voice our support with letters to the Rockford Register Star. Especially you Winnebago folks! This is the only way we will have any idea if the paper is publishing the PRO concealed carry letters. If you have sent a letter and it hasn't been published, be sure to post it here or let someone attending the committee meetings know. That way we can rebuff any claims of no PRO letters getting printed. Let's show our support!!

Just got done checking with the paper about my LTE, and it's in the que to be published. I asked about the ratio of Pro vs Anti CCW, and the lady on the line said if she would guess, it's about 3 to 1 Pro. This is a subject that isn't really a one-week-wonder-topic, but something that has 'legs' for the long haul, discussion-wise.

What I submitted........

*********************************

For far too long, the corrupt political machine based in Chicago has denied the residents of this state the status of "Citizen".

"Citizens" are empowered by the US Constitution recognition of their right to have the ability to protect their lives, the lives of their loved ones and their community from the actions of criminals.

When this resolution becomes the standard practice here, criminals will know that here in Winnebago County we  are citizens, not slaves to be robbed, raped or murdered.

I would hope the paper would print just the number of License to Carry permits issued to let the criminals know it's not safe for them here. LARGE type, just above the headline would do nicely.

Kudos to Board Members Aurand and Olson. The county board members that vote for and enact this proposal into law in this county will garner the thanks (and future votes) of Citizens of Winnebago county.

Likewise, the board members that vote against it will be getting thanks from the robbers, muggers, car-jackers and rapists that plague our county, for making it possible for them to do their work here and not have to move elsewhere.

Thank you,

K. Alan Davis
****************************

3 to 1 is still a bit close for something important like this, my friends. IF you haven't put thoughts to paper (or e-mail) yet, PLEASE help us with this. Consider it a chance to bring to the public's attention  the benefits and importance of our 2nd Amendment rights.

polhms1, on May 30 2008, 01:07 PM, said:

This is my LTE:

Winnebago County is in the middle of a debate to have concealed carry in our county
What we really have to ask here is “Why is concealed carry so good”?
All we have to do is look at all the states that have passed it. Thirty-six states have “shall issue”. This means if you apply and you have no felony record, they have to issue you a permit.
These states have had no problem with the concealed carry laws they have in place. The biggest part of this is that wherever it has passed, crime has dropped significantly!
The bad guys usually attack a person knowing they are unarmed, but when they face the possibility of being shot or killed for their wrong intentions they hesitate.
The Wild West everyone has referred to has not happened. If the State of Illinois won’t give the people of our county the right of self-defense in public, then I believe our County should!
Everyone who values their right given by our forefathers to protect our life from criminals, should take the time to attend these meetings and stand up and be counted. The life you save may be your own!

Both of these are great.  You better watch it Kenny, it looks like your writing skills are improving fast.

[Kenny]

well ya know

[Ol'Coach]

GarandFan, on May 28 2008, 03:38 PM, said:

NOTE - this is a timely example of the positive effect of carry.  This should be a discussion point up in Winnebago county.

From the Reno, NV newspaper.  

Man walks into a bar and starts shooting folks....two brothers killed, two more wounded.  A customer with a CHL (NV does not infringe the rights of bar-goers) draws and kills the murderer.  Did he stop another "mass murder?"  Perhaps.  Who knows.  But we know he stopped someone who had just killed two and injured 2 more.

Look how even there in NV the role of the hero is downplayed....the title: "Three shootings" effectively equates the two murders to the one justified killing of the murderer.  About the only positive thing said is: "He was just some random guy in jeans and a shirt who happened to be there," Hayes said. "I was just glad that there was somebody there who was able to help us out."

Let's wait to see if this hits national news.....  Holding breath now.  OK, I won't hold my breath.  John Lott might pick up on it....but even then it probably won't hit the MSM.

http://rgj.com/apps/...EWS10/805270350

Another report:

Police Report, Winnemucca

[Kaeghl]

Well, the Red Star printed my LTE, along with another one. Two in a row with no anti-rights screed. The editor at the paper must be chewing nails in frustration. heh heh heh

Mine from Machesney Park (MP is cheek-by-jowl to Loves Park, which is cheek-by-jowl to Rockford.....think of something similiar to the suburbs that are sharing borders with each other and Chicago), and one from out of county. Not a bad set up, I'd say.

Mine is posted in the threads here, and here is the other one that appeared today.

*****************************

I do not live in Winnebago County but now I am very envious that I don’t.

The very idea that your County Board has proposed a concealed carry law is fantastic!

Since the state of Illinois has refused to allow its citizens the right to protect themselves from criminal attack, people such as you have seen the light.

I hope you will pass this into law, because the decrease in crime in your county and the absence of people being crazy with guns — as the Brady campaign wants us to believe — will happen. It will show the rest of this state that concealed carry works.

You will become an island of low crime and well-behaved people in a state that refuses to believe that will happen. Go show the state, Mayor Daley and Blago they are all wrong.

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. It could have been stopped at NIU the same way.

This will be proved in time in Winnebago County.

— Donald Bekeleski, Elk Grove Village

Since I'm in the dark if Mr Bekelski is a member here or not, I'll say it anyway, Good job, Sir, very good letter. And thank you.

[45superman]

Kaeghl, on Jun 2 2008, 09:23 AM, said:

Since I'm in the dark if Mr Bekelski is a member here or not, I'll say it anyway, Good job, Sir, very good letter. And thank you.

I don't know, either, if he's a member here, but I knew I had seen that name before.

[GarandFan]

45superman, on Jun 2 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

Kaeghl, on Jun 2 2008, 09:23 AM, said:

Since I'm in the dark if Mr Bekelski is a member here or not, I'll say it anyway, Good job, Sir, very good letter. And thank you.

I don't know, either, if he's a member here, but I knew I had seen that name before.

Well, we wish he was!  I think he's from the Chicago suburbs and is a very active and outspoken advocate of Illinois gun rights.  He is active with the ISRA.  A very nice guy and quite well informed to boot.  He regularly writes in the ISRA quarterly newspaper.

[Kaeghl]

Just because I've got time to think on various subjects at work, I was wondering......

Do you suppose Mayor Daley or Blago(away) have gotten word of this yet, and what their reactions might have been? This certainly hasn't hit the chicago papers. Are we being ignored, hoping we'll just go away?

About how much would the whole CCW fee be for the four years?

Would the county outsource the production of the CCW license cards to some outside provider (with all the hassles and worries with security of applicant info, official records, police access, and counterfeiting), or keep it in-house(initial cost of equipment, but none of the mentioned hassles/worries)? How much does one of those card making machines cost, anyway?

And, who gets to design the layout of the card? Best to NOT make it similiar to the ILL Driver's License, I'd say. (oboy, another license number to memorize). Now there's something for the Red Star to put out in it's Sunday Activities section for the whole family to do together...."Gee kids, let's get our crayons and make up some grown-up cards!! Won't that be fun?" Make it a contest and win a stuffed sock monkey from the paper.

A 'hard card', like the DL would be better than a 3x8 paper slip like Pa's CCW in my opinion.

Comments?

[Buzzard]

I would like to raise a point here. We (or the moderators will) have to rein this Winnebago Concealed Carry topic in and keep it orderly!! Why do I say that? Because look at the Pro2A resolution here on this board. Two threads. There is the Pro2A resources thread and the Pro2A Resolution thread itself. JUST TWO. We accomplished all that progress with TWO threads. And if someone needs to find something there's just two threads to look in.

As for the Winnebago Concealed Carry topic we now have:

IllinoisCarry.com > Concealed Carry > Illinois Concealed Carry > Winnebago County CCW

* New Winnebago county Concealed Carry thread  
* Winnebago Board Meeting 6/10/08  
* Winnebago Co. movement, as of 6/10/08  
* Winnebago county online Petition  
* Winnebago County weighs legality of gun resolution  

IllinoisCarry.com > Concealed Carry > Illinois Concealed Carry

*Serious (and limited) discussion about CCW in Winn. Cty

That's six threads (in TWO areas) on ONE TOPIC!! How can we POSSIBLY keep any order, and accomplish what we are trying to achieve, if we can't even hold the discussion to one or two threads?! I don't have the time in my day to comb through six threads to figure out what's going on. I realize everyone is excited about this, but PLEASE let's control our emotions and especially our POSTS!

LET'S KEEP IT TOGETHER, PEOPLE!!

[Slappy]

Buzzard is right...

Started a Consolidated Thread...

Everyone go here now:

Link

[Molly B.]

In the interest of keeping things simple this thread is now closed.  Please feel free to join us at the link posted in preceeding post.