And so many dealers did not know about the hearing - ISP did not send a notice out to the FFLs about the hearing.
And therefore, a taking without due process of law.
Posted 21 November 2019 - 03:02 PM
And so many dealers did not know about the hearing - ISP did not send a notice out to the FFLs about the hearing.
Posted 01 January 2020 - 03:45 PM
Edited by InterestedBystander, 01 January 2020 - 03:50 PM.
Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:01 PM
The FFLs of Illinois post on their facebook page was a little strange since they said the meeting was by invitation only with ISP and not open to all FFLs - but Illinois open meeting laws should apply and I don't see how they could have such a meeting without it being open to the public with proper notice.
Posted 08 January 2020 - 09:39 PM
Posted 08 January 2020 - 09:56 PM
A new post there at FFLIL indicates the ISP has just filed Emergency rules for the Gun Dealer Licensing law. They have not been published to the public yet.
In that case, it is likely that those "rules" will be as tangled as the Gordian Knot (aka, a "can of worms").
Posted 08 January 2020 - 11:54 PM
The emergency rules were submitted to the Secretary of State earlier this week so I am assuming they will be printed in this Friday's edition of the Illinois Register. Please help us keep an eye out for them so we can post a link. As emergency rules, it is my understanding these rules will be effective immediately and remain in effect for 150 days.
Posted 09 January 2020 - 07:26 AM
Gun Rights for Illinois has posted the following article that has a link to the proposed emergency rules:
https://www.gunright...-license-rules/
Here is a direct link to the proposed emergency rules document:
https://www.gunright.../download/4252/
-Keith.
NRA Life Member
..., the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. - 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Posted 09 January 2020 - 07:40 AM
ISP Dealer Licensing emergency rules.pdf 632.76KB
184 downloads
Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:13 AM
Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:29 AM
Posted 09 January 2020 - 09:02 AM
Posted 09 January 2020 - 12:29 PM
The deadline for dealers to be in compliance is here and permanent rules have not been approved.
Posted 09 January 2020 - 01:14 PM
This one will hurt
"Keep ammunition stored securely and out of the reach of customers;"
But this part is down right scary AND a registry by FFL
a) On or before January 2, 2020, each certified licensee operating 514 a retail location
515 shall implement a searchable electronic record system to track its changing
516 inventory by updating the date a firearm was received or sold, the name and
517 address or the name and license number of the person from whom the firearm was
518 received or sold, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), make,
519 model, caliber or gauge, and serial number of each firearm that it receives or
520 sells. (Section 5-65 of the Act)
521
522 The electronic record system must permit inventory queries by firearm serial
523 number, acquisition date of the firearm, name of the manufacturer or importer,
524 name of the purchaser, address of the purchaser or other transferee, and ATF
525 Form 4473 transferor's transaction serial number. Use of commonly recognized
526 trade names or abbreviations are acceptable when denoting manufacturer or
527 importer.
528
529 c) The electronic record system must denote original entries and be able to track any
530 edits, corrections or amendments.
543 f) The electronic record system must have the capacity to provide a periodic printout
544 of all records:
545
546 1) at least semiannually;
547
548 2) upon request by ISP when required by law;
549
550 3) when the system memory is purged;
551
552 4) when the license is terminated; and
553
554 5) sequentially by date of acquisition for all inventory and indicating the date
555 of all sales of inventory conducted during the period covered.
ISRA Member
NRA Member
U.S.A.F Veteran
Single Father of 2
Posted 10 January 2020 - 08:09 PM
You're right. This ^^^^ IS scary ! Now they know who has what and where they are. DANGEROUS !!
Posted 10 January 2020 - 09:24 PM
Did not get published in the Jan 10, 2020 version of the register.The emergency rules were submitted to the Secretary of State earlier this week so I am assuming they will be printed in this Friday's edition of the Illinois Register. Please help us keep an eye out for them so we can post a link. As emergency rules, it is my understanding these rules will be effective immediately and remain in effect for 150 days.
Posted 10 January 2020 - 11:07 PM
Edited by InterestedBystander, 10 January 2020 - 11:08 PM.
Posted 11 January 2020 - 11:53 AM
Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:16 PM
"Keep ammunition stored securely and out of the reach of customers;"
But this part is down right scary AND a registry by FFL
a) On or before January 2, 2020, each certified licensee operating 514 a retail location
515 shall implement a searchable electronic record system to track its changing
516 inventory by updating the date a firearm was received or sold, the name and
517 address or the name and license number of the person from whom the firearm was
518 received or sold, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), make,
519 model, caliber or gauge, and serial number of each firearm that it receives or
520 sells. (Section 5-65 of the Act)
521
522The electronic record system must permit inventory queries by firearm serial
523 number, acquisition date of the firearm, name of the manufacturer or importer,
524 name of the purchaser, address of the purchaser or other transferee, and ATF
525 Form 4473 transferor's transaction serial number. Use of commonly recognized
526 trade names or abbreviations are acceptable when denoting manufacturer or
527 importer.
528
529 c) The electronic record system must denote original entries and be able to track any
530 edits, corrections or amendments.
543 f) The electronic record system must have the capacity to provide a periodic printout
544 of all records:
545
546 1) at least semiannually;
547
548 2) upon request by ISP when required by law;
549
550 3) when the system memory is purged;
551
552 4) when the license is terminated; and
553
554 5) sequentially by date of acquisition for all inventory and indicating the date
555 of all sales of inventory conducted during the period covered.
Edited by steveTA84, 11 January 2020 - 01:17 PM.
Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:30 PM
This is the biggest pile of manure I have seen in a long time.
How many more FFLs will be forced out of business by this garbage?
Posted 11 January 2020 - 02:54 PM
This is the biggest pile of manure I have seen in a long time.
How many more FFLs will be forced out of business by this garbage?
Posted 11 January 2020 - 03:27 PM
This is the biggest pile of manure I have seen in a long time.
How many more FFLs will be forced out of business by this garbage?
Many.
That's a feature, not a bug.
Life Member NRA
Member ISRA
Posted 12 January 2020 - 07:31 AM
This is the biggest pile of manure I have seen in a long time.
How many more FFLs will be forced out of business by this garbage?
That's the idea.
Posted 12 January 2020 - 08:04 AM
"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1776
Life Member NRA, ISRA, CCRKBA, GOA, & SAF
Posted 12 January 2020 - 11:06 AM
Posted 12 January 2020 - 10:56 PM
Keep in mind that some, not all, private “businesses” see additional requirements as “merely the cost of doing business” and just pass it onto you in higher prices. What is sad is that the customers are the ones who not only pay the additional costs, but now what they bought, and who they are is on record, electronically for the state.
This really does affect purchasers.
This is just a gun registry disguised as a gun dealer licensing scheme. They want electronic records, the ability to inspect records when they want, without court issued warrants. They can inspect at least once a year, without a warrant, under the idea of an inspection.
Check out what an Illinois court had to say about search warrants in “People ex rel. Madigan v. Stateline Recycling, LLC”. https://law.justia.c.../2-17-0860.html
They want databases and the ability to electronically transmit the data, yet they don't even mention encrypting the data, or even care how you secure that data or the systems that house it at the business or at the state level.
Can you imagine that data being compromised and now some gangs or criminal enterprise can see who has what that they might want to go and get...
Some highlights for you.
This looks like an electronic registry. See lines 511 - 609
This one makes it pretty clear.
559 Each licensee operating as a licensed dealer must maintain its firearms acquisition
560 and disposition records on a separate/partitioned database that cannot be
561 intermingled with the records associated with any other license
563 i) The electronic record system must be self-contained, without reliance upon
564 invoices or other paper/manual systems to provide any of the above information.
572 k) A certified licensee shall make a legible copy of a buyer's or transferee's valid
573 photo identification card whenever a firearm sale transaction takes place. The
574 photocopy shall be attached to the documentation detailing the record of sale.
575 (Section 5-20(a) of the Act)
576
577 l) Each certified licensee shall maintain these records for a period of no less than
578 the time period under 27 CFR 478.129 or any subsequent law that regulates the
579 retention of records.
No search warrant needed, just call it an inspection.
334 During an inspection, certified licensees shall make all records, documents
335 related to the sale, lease, transfer, and/or destruction of firearms, and all firearms
336 accessible for inspection, upon the request of ISP or assisting law enforcement
337 agency. (Section 5-35 of the Act)
No court supervision, why bother the court. Why do we keep getting further and further from actual judges?
710 The following factors shall be weighed by the Director or hearing officer
711 appointed by the Director when determining the severity of the violation and the
712 resulting fine:
Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:27 AM
Keep in mind that some, not all, private “businesses” see additional requirements as “merely the cost of doing business” and just pass it onto you in higher prices. What is sad is that the customers are the ones who not only pay the additional costs, but now what they bought, and who they are is on record, electronically for the state.
This really does affect purchasers.
This is just a gun registry disguised as a gun dealer licensing scheme. They want electronic records, the ability to inspect records when they want, without court issued warrants. They can inspect at least once a year, without a warrant, under the idea of an inspection.
Check out what an Illinois court had to say about search warrants in “People ex rel. Madigan v. Stateline Recycling, LLC”. https://law.justia.c.../2-17-0860.html
They want databases and the ability to electronically transmit the data, yet they don't even mention encrypting the data, or even care how you secure that data or the systems that house it at the business or at the state level.
Can you imagine that data being compromised and now some gangs or criminal enterprise can see who has what that they might want to go and get...
Some highlights for you.
This looks like an electronic registry. See lines 511 - 609
This one makes it pretty clear.
559 Each licensee operating as a licensed dealer must maintain its firearms acquisition
560 and disposition records on a separate/partitioned database that cannot be
561 intermingled with the records associated with any other license
563 i) The electronic record system must be self-contained, without reliance upon
564 invoices or other paper/manual systems to provide any of the above information.
572 k) A certified licensee shall make a legible copy of a buyer's or transferee's valid
573 photo identification card whenever a firearm sale transaction takes place. The
574 photocopy shall be attached to the documentation detailing the record of sale.
575 (Section 5-20(a) of the Act)
576
577 l) Each certified licensee shall maintain these records for a period of no less than
578 the time period under 27 CFR 478.129 or any subsequent law that regulates the
579 retention of records.
No search warrant needed, just call it an inspection.
334 During an inspection, certified licensees shall make all records, documents
335 related to the sale, lease, transfer, and/or destruction of firearms, and all firearms
336 accessible for inspection, upon the request of ISP or assisting law enforcement
337 agency. (Section 5-35 of the Act)
No court supervision, why bother the court. Why do we keep getting further and further from actual judges?
710 The following factors shall be weighed by the Director or hearing officer
711 appointed by the Director when determining the severity of the violation and the
712 resulting fine:
That's literally creating a searchable registry that is in violation of previous Federal law.
Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:53 AM
Well, I guess I won't be buying any more guns in IL.
Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:12 AM
Keep in mind that some, not all, private “businesses” see additional requirements as “merely the cost of doing business” and just pass it onto you in higher prices. What is sad is that the customers are the ones who not only pay the additional costs, but now what they bought, and who they are is on record, electronically for the state.
This really does affect purchasers.
This is just a gun registry disguised as a gun dealer licensing scheme. They want electronic records, the ability to inspect records when they want, without court issued warrants. They can inspect at least once a year, without a warrant, under the idea of an inspection.
Check out what an Illinois court had to say about search warrants in “People ex rel. Madigan v. Stateline Recycling, LLC”. https://law.justia.c.../2-17-0860.html
They want databases and the ability to electronically transmit the data, yet they don't even mention encrypting the data, or even care how you secure that data or the systems that house it at the business or at the state level.
Can you imagine that data being compromised and now some gangs or criminal enterprise can see who has what that they might want to go and get...
Some highlights for you.
559 Each licensee operating as a licensed dealer must maintain its firearms acquisition
This looks like an electronic registry. See lines 511 - 609
This one makes it pretty clear.
560 and disposition records on a separate/partitioned database that cannot be
561 intermingled with the records associated with any other license
563 i) The electronic record system must be self-contained, without reliance upon
564 invoices or other paper/manual systems to provide any of the above information.
572 k) A certified licensee shall make a legible copy of a buyer's or transferee's valid
573 photo identification card whenever a firearm sale transaction takes place. The
574 photocopy shall be attached to the documentation detailing the record of sale.
575 (Section 5-20(a) of the Act)
576
577 l) Each certified licensee shall maintain these records for a period of no less than
578 the time period under 27 CFR 478.129 or any subsequent law that regulates the
579 retention of records.
[/*]
No search warrant needed, just call it an inspection.
334 During an inspection, certified licensees shall make all records, documents
335 related to the sale, lease, transfer, and/or destruction of firearms, and all firearms
336 accessible for inspection, upon the request of ISP or assisting law enforcement
337 agency. (Section 5-35 of the Act)[/*]
No court supervision, why bother the court. Why do we keep getting further and further from actual judges?
710 The following factors shall be weighed by the Director or hearing officer
711 appointed by the Director when determining the severity of the violation and the
712 resulting fine:
That's literally creating a searchable registry that is in violation of previous Federal law.
Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:16 AM
I don't understand why this entire law has not yet been challenged due to Pritzker signing it and a previous General Assembly passing it.
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