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Let CCL expired before submitting renewal docs


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#1 metlgod

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 06:11 AM

SO I have 2 students who took their 3 hour renewal before they expired then didn't immediately upload their cert and pay. Why? I have no clue. The world is overrun with morons currently.

 

My question, not finding any answers, what is their recourse?? Just submit and pay and see what happens?? 

 

I just received an email from an Instructor out of GAT and it states anyone who fails to renew before their CCL expires they need to complete the 16 hours all over again. IS this true?? I can not find it anywhere on here nor is it in the law.

 

thanks

chris

 

 



#2 Craigcelia

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 06:31 AM

Yes that is true. There isn't any recourse.

See this post: http://illinoiscarry.....#entry1192457

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Edited by Craigcelia, 06 April 2019 - 06:34 AM.

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#3 InterestedBystander

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 06:51 AM

Corrected Craig's link:
http://illinoiscarry...=1#entry1192457

It is in the ISP renewal letter. A new 16 hr training certificate is required.

post-11442-0-28949400-1543541198.jpgpost-11442-0-39866100-1543541355.jpg

Edited by InterestedBystander, 06 April 2019 - 06:57 AM.

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#4 Euler

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 07:02 AM

Yes that is true. There isn't any recourse.

See this post: http://illinoiscarry.....#entry1192457


I think the link you meant is this one, although it's mostly the img that InterestedBystander included above.
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#5 Bubbacs

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 08:59 AM

Why take the class and then just blow the date?
If true, then they get the results.
I’ve been here a few years and guys blowing dates on FOIDs, DLs, and all sorts of stuff.
With the tech we have available today, no one should miss a deadline.
60 day, 30 day, 15 day, then everyday notices are at our finger tips!

With that being said, if they didn’t have to cash to get it renewed, and it does relate to some of us, then it’s a shame!

Here’s hoping IF they need the whole class that an instructor can help them deeply with the costs........

#6 Chinto

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 09:28 AM

"It is in the ISP renewal letter. A new 16 hr training certificate is required."

 

It says a new 16 hour training certificate is required not 16 hours of classroom.  I take that to mean the student would need to get the current version of the training certificate re-issued from the original instructor.   The student has taken the required course work but simply has the outdated certificate that needs updating.  Main problem here of course, is that instructor still around and in good standing?   If so, then I see no reason why the original training instructor can not simply re-issue their verified current version of the training course certificate.   This has happened in the early days as the certificate was changed/updated from one year to the next.  There were many who originally failed to submit their application before the certificate was updated and  had to get the outdated certificate re-issued.     



#7 WitchDoctor

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:29 AM

Yes that is true. There isn't any recourse.

See this post: http://illinoiscarry.....#entry1192457

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Wow, that's rough. Only in Illinois.


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#8 DomG

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:59 AM

"It is in the ISP renewal letter. A new 16 hr training certificate is required."
 
It says a new 16 hour training certificate is required not 16 hours of classroom.  I take that to mean the student would need to get the current version of the training certificate re-issued from the original instructor.   The student has taken the required course work but simply has the outdated certificate that needs updating.  Main problem here of course, is that instructor still around and in good standing?   If so, then I see no reason why the original training instructor can not simply re-issue their verified current version of the training course certificate.   This has happened in the early days as the certificate was changed/updated from one year to the next.  There were many who originally failed to submit their application before the certificate was updated and  had to get the outdated certificate re-issued.

Here is the flaw with this logic, but it doesnt apply to these two students as they DID take their renewal class. If others let their CCL expire and just get a reissued certificate of their original training, they would be bypassing the 3 hour retraining requirement. I dont think the state will allow that to happen. It SHOULD be that if you let your license expire, It would just be required to take the 3 hour recertification to reapply. But the law says you need all 16 again.

Edited by DomG, 06 April 2019 - 11:01 AM.

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#9 Quiet Observer

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 01:10 PM

"It is in the ISP renewal letter. A new 16 hr training certificate is required."

 

It says a new 16 hour training certificate is required not 16 hours of classroom.  I take that to mean the student would need to get the current version of the training certificate re-issued from the original instructor.   The student has taken the required course work but simply has the outdated certificate that needs updating.  Main problem here of course, is that instructor still around and in good standing?   If so, then I see no reason why the original training instructor can not simply re-issue their verified current version of the training course certificate.   This has happened in the early days as the certificate was changed/updated from one year to the next.  There were many who originally failed to submit their application before the certificate was updated and  had to get the outdated certificate re-issued.     

 

It looks like you are expecting the instructor to commit fraud by claiming to have given the students credit for 2 separate 16 hour courses, one 5 years ago and one recently.  

Instructors have been in trouble and, I think lost their accreditation, for not teaching full class sessions and then issuing certificates.



#10 Bubbacs

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 01:16 PM

The certificates have not changed recently, iirc
And some use the IC certs and others use the ISP one, iirc
My reading as an instructor is that IF you want a cert, you will take the class fully.
Im not willing to just start printing out certs for original or renewals and handing out.
My license is also on the line!

Also, what dates would an instructor put on the cert? Last time (5 years ago) or todays date?
We have to keep records of all this and if audited.........

Edited by Bubbacs, 06 April 2019 - 01:16 PM.


#11 InterestedBystander

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 01:37 PM

"It is in the ISP renewal letter. A new 16 hr training certificate is required."
 
It says a new 16 hour training certificate is required not 16 hours of classroom.  I take that to mean the student would need to get the current version of the training certificate re-issued from the original instructor.   The student has taken the required course work but simply has the outdated certificate that needs updating.  Main problem here of course, is that instructor still around and in good standing?   If so, then I see no reason why the original training instructor can not simply re-issue their verified current version of the training course certificate.   This has happened in the early days as the certificate was changed/updated from one year to the next.  There were many who originally failed to submit their application before the certificate was updated and  had to get the outdated certificate re-issued.


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Maybe for an original app that was not applied for after training, but not renewals IMO
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#12 Bubbacs

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 04:14 PM

IB

So you saying he needs the full class again?
Im confused at the replies and yours normally trumps most others! Just saying.

So I let my original ( full16 class/ccl) expire
Then in this case I am no longer legal to carry, yes?
And if anyone comes to a instructor and does not have a ccl, we give the full 16 hours, yes?

Just trying to be sure as I want to do the right thing and would also like to see the info handed out here he correct.
Long winded, but mark me as reading as stated above!

Edited by Bubbacs, 06 April 2019 - 04:15 PM.


#13 InterestedBystander

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:58 PM

Im not a lawyer. Im not an instructor. My understanding as with others like Craig is that if you have a valid CCL that you let expire before submitting a renewal, then you need to take a new 16/8 hours of training and submitting the cert you used for the original CCL is not valid which is what I understood some others suggesting. Otherwise why would anyone ever need a renewal class. Or maybe Im misunderstanding what others are writing.

Now if you took original training but did not apply, that cert is useable for a new never issued CCL application although a new piece of paper might be needed if the cert format had been later changed by the ISP.

I could certainly be wrong but in addition to the renewal letter, I thought someone had posted an email exchange with the ISP confirming but its not always easy to find prior posts here in the forum.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 06 April 2019 - 06:01 PM.

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#14 THE KING

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 06:05 PM

Im not a lawyer. Im not an instructor. My understanding as with others like Craig is that if you have a valid CCL that you let expire before submitting a renewal, then you need to take a new 16/8 hours of training and submitting the cert you used for the original CCL is not valid which is what I understood some others suggesting. Otherwise why would anyone ever need a renewal class. Or maybe Im misunderstanding what others are writing.
Now if you took original training but did not apply, that cert is useable for a new never issued CCL application although a new piece of paper might be needed if the cert format had been later changed by the ISP.
I could certainly be wrong but in addition to the renewal letter, I thought someone had posted an email exchange with the ISP confirming but its not always easy to find prior posts here in the forum.


You are correct. Some people try to spin it the way they think it should be, but they aren't the instructor who is held accountable. If you let you're license lapse, you take the whole class over. Not that I agree, but it is what it is.

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#15 Craigcelia

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 06:48 PM

Im not a lawyer. Im not an instructor. My understanding as with others like Craig is that if you have a valid CCL that you let expire before submitting a renewal, then you need to take a new 16/8 hours of training and submitting the cert you used for the original CCL is not valid which is what I understood some others suggesting. Otherwise why would anyone ever need a renewal class. Or maybe Im misunderstanding what others are writing.
Now if you took original training but did not apply, that cert is useable for a new never issued CCL application although a new piece of paper might be needed if the cert format had been later changed by the ISP.
I could certainly be wrong but in addition to the renewal letter, I thought someone had posted an email exchange with the ISP confirming but its not always easy to find prior posts here in the forum.

Yep, that's the way I see it as well. 100% correct!

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#16 Molly B.

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 08:41 PM

I do know of a few folks who had CCL expire just by a day or two and they were able to submit 3 hr. renewal certificate and it was accepted.  Going past just a day or two I would not guarantee the same results.


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#17 metlgod

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:28 AM

Thanks to the replies. I myself never got a renewal letter like this. Mine was one paragraph long and stated my 90 days has begun till expiration. If I find it I will upload it. While waiting for you great people to reply I had a student send me his letter. Ad there it is. Miss applying before your expiration and you need to get a new ccl. Complete the 16 all over again with a new cert. 

 

Thanks everyone!

 

c

 



#18 Trevis

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:56 PM

I never got a renewal letter either. I just recertified and paid my $150 poll tax to get my permission slip tonight... It expires in a little over a month, so this ought to be interesting. 


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#19 BobPistol

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 10:26 PM

What's the saying? 

You do stupid things, you gets stupid results.


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#20 metlgod

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 06:11 AM

I'm not in agreement of the full 16 hours. Basic Pistol can be taken anytime in your lifetime and never expires. So I don't think the student needs to repeat Basic Pistol. All credits still apply towards your 16 hours. I'm treating this as you have fulfilled the 8 hours by having basic pistol. However you need to repeat the 2nd 8 hours of law, conceal training and certification. The dudes want me to use their renewal targets and I said No. Those targets are already dated from the renewal class. I need new targets to go with new cert. Gotta be business-wise and ethical everyone. Like Bubbacs said...what if you get audited. Protect yourself. I know I have been "audited" twice just by the goofy emails and phone calls I have received by "students" looking to buck the system. I politely told them I don't work that way and they need to find a different instructor.. Nice try! So my 2 will have to take the 2nd 8hrs and shoot me a target. 



#21 Quiet Observer

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 02:18 PM

I agree with you that the 16 hour rule is silly, and that you have to follow the regulations as they are.  

As far as their wanting the old targets, the qualifying is not hard.  I will would just see it as another fun opportunity to shot.






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