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Deciding on Concealed Carry Insurance


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#1 jawman

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

I've spent most of the day researching CC insurance options, and I think I'm set on CCW Safe. They are the only ones that protect you from start to finish for a self defense case, upfront, whether or not you are found guilty in the end. They pay for ALL the legal expenses and there is no cap or limit, for either criminal or civil trials. Others operate on a reimbursement program and only reimburse your costs after you are found innocent. Stay clear from those.

 

From what I have read on CCW Safe:

 

They will  secure a lawyer that is closest to you and they will pay for ALL of the legal expenses, no cap or limit, for both criminal and civil trials.
 
After a shooting you will most likely be in a criminal court (violation of criminal law/ The State vs You). The outcome of a criminal case will either be you are found guilty or innocent (ie. for self defense). CCW Safe will pay for the entire defense case, guilty or not, or even if you take a plea agreement. They're the only one I have found that do all of this.
 
If the family of the bad guy or the guy himself (if still alive) later decides to take you to civil court (damages/death/medical expenses/claims that are not criminal, etc.) CCW Safe will also defend you. Civil: Private party vs private party i.e. bad guy's family vs you.
 
EXCEPT if you are found guilty in a civil court case, you are forced to pay monetary damages. CCW Safe will not pay those costs (this is what an insurance group does).
 
Pros:
-You have no upfront expenses
-CCW Safe will provide you attorneys
-Low cost
-No caps or limits on the coverage they provide for both criminal and civil trial
-Not limited to just a firearm, and covers any weapon used for self defense, even your bare hands.
-Pays for lawyers, investigators, expert witnesses, etc. Some other competitors do not include the latter two.
-CCW Safe will pay for the entire defense case, guilty or not, or even if you take a plea agreement. Personally, I think this is paramount since we live in a historically anti-gun state, and especially since I live in Crook County.
 
Cons:
-Does not cover damages awarded from the criminal trial or judgments during the civil trial

 

I compared against USCCA, Armed Citizens Defense Network, NRA Carry Guard, US Law Shield (who does not operate in Illinois).

CCW Safe seemed to be far and away the best choice.

 

The only thing I like more is that USCCA does cover damages that may stem from a civil suit if you are found guilty. However, in some states, if you are found innocent in the criminal trial, you are exempt from civil trial, but I do not know if this applies to Illinois. Does anyone know? My guess is no.

 

Lastly, I plan to join CCW Safe but I am still shopping for the missing piece which is an insurance policy to protect me from civil damages. From my research, it appears that people often go with a combination of both CCW Safe USCCA:

CCW Safe for legal coverage, and USCCA for education and backup legal coverage, mostly for damages incurred during a civil suit if found guilty.

Having a membership with both seems like the best bet, however I only want specific coverage for civil damages since all of the defense is more than adequately covered by CCWSafe. I don't need or want to pay for redundancy in the USCCA policy if I can avoid it.


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#2 Craigcelia

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:57 PM

I've spent most of the day researching CC insurance options, and I think I'm set on CCW Safe. They are the only ones that protect you from start to finish for a self defense case, upfront, whether or not you are found guilty in the end. They pay for ALL the legal expenses and there is no cap or limit, for either criminal or civil trials. Others operate on a reimbursement program and only reimburse your costs after you are found innocent. Stay clear from those.
 
From what I have read on CCW Safe:
 
They will  secure a lawyer that is closest to you and they will pay for ALL of the legal expenses, no cap or limit, for both criminal and civil trials.
 
After a shooting you will most likely be in a criminal court (violation of criminal law/ The State vs You). The outcome of a criminal case will either be you are found guilty or innocent (ie. for self defense). CCW Safe will pay for the entire defense case, guilty or not, or even if you take a plea agreement. They're the only one I have found that do all of this.
 
If the family of the bad guy or the guy himself (if still alive) later decides to take you to civil court (damages/death/medical expenses/claims that are not criminal, etc.) CCW Safe will also defend you. Civil: Private party vs private party i.e. bad guy's family vs you.
 
EXCEPT if you are found guilty in a civil court case, you are forced to pay monetary damages. CCW Safe will not pay those costs (this is what an insurance group does).
 
Pros:

-You have no upfront expenses
-CCW Safe will provide you attorneys
-Low cost
-No caps or limits on the coverage they provide for both criminal and civil trial
-Not limited to just a firearm, and covers any weapon used for self defense, even your bare hands.
-Pays for lawyers, investigators, expert witnesses, etc. Some other competitors do not include the latter two.
-CCW Safe will pay for the entire defense case, guilty or not, or even if you take a plea agreement. Personally, I think this is paramount since we live in a historically anti-gun state, and especially since I live in Crook County.
 
Cons:
-Does not cover damages awarded from the criminal trial or judgments during the civil trial

 
I compared against USCCA, Armed Citizens Defense Network, NRA Carry Guard, US Law Shield (who does not operate in Illinois).
CCW Safe seemed to be far and away the best choice.
 
The only thing I like more is that USCCA does cover damages that may stem from a civil suit if you are found guilty. However, in some states, if you are found innocent in the criminal trial, you are exempt from civil trial, but I do not know if this applies to Illinois. Does anyone know? My guess is no.
 
Lastly, I plan to join CCW Safe but I am still shopping for the missing piece which is an insurance policy to protect me from civil damages. From my research, it appears that people often go with a combination of both CCW Safe USCCA:
CCW Safe for legal coverage, and USCCA for education and backup legal coverage, mostly for damages incurred during a civil suit if found guilty.
Having a membership with both seems like the best bet, however I only want specific coverage for civil damages since all of the defense is more than adequately covered by CCWSafe. I don't need or want to pay for redundancy in the USCCA policy if I can avoid it.

Sounds like you did your homework. I've got USCCA and am satisfied

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#3 jawman

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:04 PM

Thanks! I've been putting this off long enough but it's not something I wanted to put off any longer. On a separate note, did you really need to quote my entire post just to say that? Just takes up unnecessary screen space by repeating my entire post :turned:

 

Also to anyone else that may be doing their homework, something that scared me away from Armed Citizens Defense Network was that they don't do anything after the bail money until their advisory board approves to take on your case. IF they decide to take on your case you would have a great team of experts. But do I want to gamble on the big IF? They "MAY" give additional funds after the small bail amount IF their advisory board gives their blessings. Seems like a conflict of interest...they save money if they deny additional funds because THEY have the right since it is their choice as per their terms. Read fine print closely - it is designed more to protect the company than the client. The fine print of CCW Safe looks safer for the customer.

Also, ACDN only offers up to half of what is currently the balance of funds from their network of members. Currently it's a little over a million dollars, so your max would be about $500,000. However with CCW Safe, there is no limit.


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#4 22cal

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:10 PM

I have ccwsafe and my dad and brother does too. We compared it to all others and for the price which is lower then all others u get more. Plus the attorney who represented Zimmerman is with ccw safe too.

#5 soundguy

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:21 PM

I have ccwsafe and my dad and brother does too. We compared it to all others and for the price which is lower then all others u get more. Plus the attorney who represented Zimmerman is with ccw safe too.

 

So they're used to working with less than imperfect clients...


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#6 RoadyRunner

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:04 PM

The only thing I like more is that USCCA does cover damages that may stem from a civil suit if you are found guilty. However, in some states, if you are found innocent in the criminal trial, you are exempt from civil trial, but I do not know if this applies to Illinois. Does anyone know? My guess is no.


Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge. And it’s better than most states - Illinois has it setup as an affirmative defense.

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#7 Mick G

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:01 AM

Some people I know have CCW Safe and will carry another policy like USCCA as a back up.

I have attorney friends, plenty of assets to make bail and umbrella insurance with Chubb for 7 figures.

I also have CCW Safe just in case but the umbrella policy has a clause that as long as I'm not found guilty it will cover any liabilities.

That is in writing in the PUP. Deal with Chubb and their attorneys.

As stated above "Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge." so the PUP is kind of moot.

BUT It gives me piece of mind in our litigious society.



#8 bmyers

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:23 AM

My wife and I have USCCA. Starting in OCtober, your spouse can get the same coverage as you for an additional $49 a year.


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#9 RandyP

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:53 AM

Good thinking - my son and I went with CCW Safe, but ANY coverage is light years ahead of no coverage. I sleep better and carry with one less worry thanks to my coverage. Just knowing I HAVE a lawyer in time of dire need = peace of mind.


Edited by RandyP, 23 October 2017 - 06:54 AM.

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#10 vito

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:26 AM

I went through a similar process, and also decided on joining CCW Safe. I've been with them for two years now and fortunately have not had to avail myself of their services. As to liability, I plan on adding an umbrella policy to my homeowner's and auto insurance, but right now they would not offer me umbrella coverage due to some traffic tickets. But when that timeline expires in another few months I will go for the umbrella policy which would cover me if sued and found liable. Day to day I feel better having that CCW Safe card in my wallet. If I were to be involved in a self defense shooting my very first phone call from the scene would be to CCW Safe, then I would call 911, and then probably call my wife to let her know that I will likely be placed under arrest no matter what the circumstances of the shooting were. 


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#11 matkinson

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:31 AM

I went through a similar process, and also decided on joining CCW Safe. I've been with them for two years now and fortunately have not had to avail myself of their services. As to liability, I plan on adding an umbrella policy to my homeowner's and auto insurance, but right now they would not offer me umbrella coverage due to some traffic tickets. But when that timeline expires in another few months I will go for the umbrella policy which would cover me if sued and found liable. Day to day I feel better having that CCW Safe card in my wallet. If I were to be involved in a self defense shooting my very first phone call from the scene would be to CCW Safe, then I would call 911, and then probably call my wife to let her know that I will likely be placed under arrest no matter what the circumstances of the shooting were. 

 

I'm not an attorney nor an insurance professional.  With that said I understand that most umbrella policies won't cover you for deliberate acts for civil liability.  Something for you to look into before buying a policy.



#12 Mick G

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:33 AM

I went through a similar process, and also decided on joining CCW Safe. I've been with them for two years now and fortunately have not had to avail myself of their services. As to liability, I plan on adding an umbrella policy to my homeowner's and auto insurance, but right now they would not offer me umbrella coverage due to some traffic tickets. But when that timeline expires in another few months I will go for the umbrella policy which would cover me if sued and found liable. Day to day I feel better having that CCW Safe card in my wallet. If I were to be involved in a self defense shooting my very first phone call from the scene would be to CCW Safe, then I would call 911, and then probably call my wife to let her know that I will likely be placed under arrest no matter what the circumstances of the shooting were. 

 

Even though I always that that Jeff Cooper was the man, Massad Ayoob has a pretty decent video on how to handle the aftermath of a self defense shooting. Really if you are going click on ONE link, click on this ONE. 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=pCZXZMYyRl4

 

Five Points of a Shooting Aftermath

1. "Officer this man/woman attacked me"
2. "I will sign the complaint"
3. Point out evidence. Evidence being handgun, spent casing, knife, deadly object
4. Point out witnesses there. i.e. security cameras, people etc.
5. "Officer you will have my full cooperation within 24 hrs after speaking with an Attorney"


Edited by Mick G, 23 October 2017 - 08:48 AM.


#13 TRJ

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:39 AM

 

I went through a similar process, and also decided on joining CCW Safe. I've been with them for two years now and fortunately have not had to avail myself of their services. As to liability, I plan on adding an umbrella policy to my homeowner's and auto insurance, but right now they would not offer me umbrella coverage due to some traffic tickets. But when that timeline expires in another few months I will go for the umbrella policy which would cover me if sued and found liable. Day to day I feel better having that CCW Safe card in my wallet. If I were to be involved in a self defense shooting my very first phone call from the scene would be to CCW Safe, then I would call 911, and then probably call my wife to let her know that I will likely be placed under arrest no matter what the circumstances of the shooting were. 

 

I'm not an attorney nor an insurance professional.  With that said I understand that most umbrella policies won't cover you for deliberate acts for civil liability.  Something for you to look into before buying a policy.

 

Same is true of homeowners insurance. ND through the floor and hurt someone...no problem, covered. Deliberately defend yourself and push a badguy down the stairs, not covered.



#14 Mick G

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:46 AM

 

I went through a similar process, and also decided on joining CCW Safe. I've been with them for two years now and fortunately have not had to avail myself of their services. As to liability, I plan on adding an umbrella policy to my homeowner's and auto insurance, but right now they would not offer me umbrella coverage due to some traffic tickets. But when that timeline expires in another few months I will go for the umbrella policy which would cover me if sued and found liable. Day to day I feel better having that CCW Safe card in my wallet. If I were to be involved in a self defense shooting my very first phone call from the scene would be to CCW Safe, then I would call 911, and then probably call my wife to let her know that I will likely be placed under arrest no matter what the circumstances of the shooting were. 

 

I'm not an attorney nor an insurance professional.  With that said I understand that most umbrella policies won't cover you for deliberate acts for civil liability.  Something for you to look into before buying a policy.

 

 

Absolutely. That's why I went over it with my insurance agent and it's in print in my Chubb PUP.

Another carrier might not have it so make sure that YOURS does and check that it states so.

Like some other States as pointed out by RoadyRunner: "Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge." When you are found not guilty you are off the hook for civil damages.

I'm sure the perps family is going to hire Glen Lerner but at the most you are going to get is a threatening letter.

They might actually serve you with a subpoena that is going to be immediately thrown out.

PUP insurance is cheaper then you think and can save you from losing millions.


Edited by Mick G, 23 October 2017 - 08:47 AM.


#15 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:14 AM

Here is a comparison chart I did a couple years ago. I have to add carry guard and US Law Shield =, eventually :)

http://www.alphakonc...ense-insurance/


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#16 jawman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:28 AM

I've watched plenty, hours worth of those "what to say after the shooting" type videos and have read countless info and training material on the subject. It's good to do all that but it's not a replacement for having some type of self defense or CC insurance, however many people think it is. They have this perfect scenario play out in their head and think that's the way it will go and don't need to bother with insurance. Personally that's not something I want to take a gamble on especially in our litigious society and anti gun Illinois/Cook County. Even if it is 100% self defense and you had no other option but to use your firearm, there could always be someone that hates guns, or needs a promotion, or a prosecutor wants to make a name for themselves, etc., that it's a good idea to have some sort of coverage.

I'm going to go with CCW Safe for now, and I hope I never need to use it. But for $179 a year it's worth every penny for the peace of mind. Might skip USCCA since it seems the odds are slim of me having to worry about civil damages due to Illinois civil immunity and affirmative defense, and everything else they offer would already be covered with CCW Safe. It is scary for me to think about, and I hope I never need to use the coverage, and I especially hope that I never need to use my firearm. But we live in an imperfect world.

Thank you for sharing that info RoadyRunner.

My only concern is I sometimes travel to Michigan, Florida, and North Carolina, so maybe the civil coverage offered by USCCA might not be a bad idea, I just don't like paying for redundant services already covered by CCW Safe just so I can have the civil part covered by USCCA. If only there was a way to get just the civil part covered.

Also, what is Chubb and PUP?

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#17 bmyers

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:33 AM

chubby-puppies-bear-cub-look-alikes-14__

 

Chubb PUP


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#18 Glock23

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:48 AM

Might skip USCCA since it seems the odds are slim of me having to worry about civil damages due to Illinois civil immunity and affirmative defense, and everything else they offer would already be covered with CCW Safe.


It's been mentioned here before, that a lack of charges by the S.A. doesn't equate to your shooting being justified, in which case a civil suit can still apply... basically, you'd need to go to trial and be acquitted for civil immunity to apply.
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#19 Craigcelia

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:49 AM

Thanks! I've been putting this off long enough but it's not something I wanted to put off any longer. On a separate note, did you really need to quote my entire post just to say that? Just takes up unnecessary screen space by repeating my entire post :turned:

 

Also to anyone else that may be doing their homework, something that scared me away from Armed Citizens Defense Network was that they don't do anything after the bail money until their advisory board approves to take on your case. IF they decide to take on your case you would have a great team of experts. But do I want to gamble on the big IF? They "MAY" give additional funds after the small bail amount IF their advisory board gives their blessings. Seems like a conflict of interest...they save money if they deny additional funds because THEY have the right since it is their choice as per their terms. Read fine print closely - it is designed more to protect the company than the client. The fine print of CCW Safe looks safer for the customer.

Also, ACDN only offers up to half of what is currently the balance of funds from their network of members. Currently it's a little over a million dollars, so your max would be about $500,000. However with CCW Safe, there is no limit.

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#20 Mick G

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:56 AM

Chubb is an investment group that also sells insurance and PUP is "Personal Umbrella Policy" even though some call it PLUP which is the same thing but the L stands for Liability. If you watch anything on PBS you have heard " The following is brought to you by a grant from the Chubb group". MOST PLUPs do not cover a shooting but some do so shop and make sure it's in writing in your policy.

 

"Many people think that if they buy generic liability coverage, often called an "umbrella" policy, they will be protected if they use a gun in self defense. However, it is against the law for any insurance company to insure you against illegal actions you may commit.

So if you are charged with a crime, your umbrella policy will not protect you unless charges are dropped or you are acquitted."

It's basically just a back up because "Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge." Some states do not have this law so do your homework.

 

My first line is CCW Safe, second are the attorneys I know that are basically on retainer and third is I have enough assets to make any bail that might be imposed. I am not a huge fan of Ayoob but really when it hits the fan you want to be the one who calls 911 and report that you were attacked, the location and then shut up and hang up, you are being recorded. You will be freaking out and you could say something that will be used against you. The PD is going to show up and quickly. You have to establish yourself as a victim, there a lot of cops that are going to assume you have a "I'm cop mindset" mindset. You have to keep your head because the responding officers are the ones who are going to make the initial call as to how this is handled. The I will sign a complaint thing is a little stupid IMO if you killed the perp. The detectives are not yet involved, just the cops on duty so point out the evidence that you were attacked and acted in self defense, fearing for you life or somebody else's. Your gun will be taken from you, have it holstered so when the PD shows up, so they don't think you're the criminal. Take pictures with your phone of ALL evidence that shows you were the victim. If any witnesses stayed around well that's 50/50. 100 people can see the same thing and you are going to have 100 different statements. Then get ready for a ride in a squad car and invoke your right to an attorney. Now is the time to say absolutely nothing. To you it may seem like you are being uncooperative but anything you say can be used against you. The Police ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS regardless of how nice they act. Basically SHUT UP. After sitting for a while your attorney should be there. They will ask if you are free to leave. You will likely be allowed to leave or possibly charged. If charged they will make bail arrangements, in any further communications with the police or DA you will have your attorney present.

 

CCW Safe will very happy if you handle it in this way. If you immediately invoke your right to an attorney, a lot of things can be missed making a legitimate act of self defense into a mess.



#21 jawman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:49 AM

Might skip USCCA since it seems the odds are slim of me having to worry about civil damages due to Illinois civil immunity and affirmative defense, and everything else they offer would already be covered with CCW Safe.


It's been mentioned here before, that a lack of charges by the S.A. doesn't equate to your shooting being justified, in which case a civil suit can still apply... basically, you'd need to go to trial and be acquitted for civil immunity to apply.

Thank you for clarifying this. Definitely good to know!

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#22 Mick G

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:30 PM

Hence, "Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge."



#23 jawman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:48 PM

Sure, but we aren't all experts like you. I'm glad he clarified further that it is good to remember that just because there is no criminal charge does not mean that a civil suit can't happen. Simply saying "Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge." is great to know, but it also doesn't hurt to go a little beyond that and remind people that a lack of a criminal charge does not mean a civil suit won't happen either. Especially to someone who isn't an expert and wouldn't assume anything beyond that. So I'm glad he clarified further.

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#24 Glock23

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:27 PM

Hence, "Illinois has civil immunity when found not guilty of the criminal charge."

I was just clarifying, as the wording in the statute mentions that the shooting has been deemed justified, but there is no definition of that.

Some believe not being charged will suffice, others believe you have to be tried and found not guilty.

To my knowledge, there's nothing in writing anywhere that clarifies the issue.
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#25 jawman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:03 PM

Much appreciated Glock23.

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#26 Mealtime

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:56 AM

I wonder if ccw insurance companies would purposfully find you a bad lawyer, in order to get you to lose in court so that way they dont pay out when your found guilty? That question really bothers me Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

#27 bmyers

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:05 AM

I wonder if ccw insurance companies would purposfully find you a bad lawyer, in order to get you to lose in court so that way they dont pay out when your found guilty? That question really bothers me Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

With USCCA, you pick your lawyer. 

 

Also, I believe Second Call Defense you pick your own lawyer.


Edited by bmyers, 24 October 2017 - 07:06 AM.

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#28 Rieger

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:54 AM

My wife and I have USCCA and I found a great lawyer out of Hinsdale area that also has his CCL.  After contacting him, I put his name and number into my phone and on the USCCA card I carry in my wallet...hopefully I never need it.



#29 soundguy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:25 AM

I wonder if ccw insurance companies would purposfully find you a bad lawyer, in order to get you to lose in court so that way they dont pay out when your found guilty? That question really bothers me Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

If they routinely lost in court, no one would buy the insurance once that was discovered. They would be out of business.


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#30 Hoffsoft

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  • Joined: 16-June 08

Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:46 PM

My wife and I have USCCA and I found a great lawyer out of Hinsdale area that also has his CCL.  After contacting him, I put his name and number into my phone and on the USCCA card I carry in my wallet...hopefully I never need it.


If he’s a good guy, I’m sure DuPage folks would appreciate a referral. :)