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Need to keep both CCL and FOID on person?


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#1 mstrat

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 05:02 PM

I heard there was a follow on bill passed that allows you to simply carry your CCL and no longer need the physical FOID card on your person, but I cannot seem to find it.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction, or give me the brief update (i've been waaaay out of the loop for a long time)?


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#2 kwc

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 05:06 PM

SB836 passed this summer and allows exactly that. There are several threads on this topic--might want to find them and read individual experiences regarding attempts to buy ammo or firearms at dealers using only the CCL. Some dealers aren't aware of the change.

Edited by kwc, 16 November 2015 - 05:10 PM.

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#3 kwc

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 05:09 PM

Read through the FOID Act and the Criminal Code and you'll see the changes incorporated into the statutes:

http://www.ilga.gov/...57&ChapterID=39

http://www.ilga.gov/...SeqEnd=71400000

Edited by kwc, 16 November 2015 - 05:10 PM.

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#4 wtr100

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 08:49 PM

what KWC said - many dealers have taken a business decision and accept only FOID cards for sales 


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#5 Xwing

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:26 AM

what KWC said - many dealers have taken a business decision and accept only FOID cards for sales 

 

Yep.  Stores can decide (either on purpose or via ignorance) to only accept a FOID card as a matter of business practice.  But from what I've seen both personally and here on the forum:  Most stores are now "in the know" and will accept your CCW (as they legally can) for gun and/or ammo purchase.


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#6 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:38 AM

Wait... You need a FOID to buy guns?  The guy I get mine from just opens his trunk and lets me pick one.......


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#7 spec5

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 10:22 AM

Wait... You need a FOID to buy guns?  The guy I get mine from just opens his trunk and lets me pick one.......


And you said that was to remain just between us.

Edited by spec5, 17 November 2015 - 10:22 AM.

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#8 soylentgreen

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:20 PM

 

what KWC said - many dealers have taken a business decision and accept only FOID cards for sales 

 

Yep.  Stores can decide (either on purpose or via ignorance) to only accept a FOID card as a matter of business practice.  But from what I've seen both personally and here on the forum:  Most stores are now "in the know" and will accept your CCW (as they legally can) for gun and/or ammo purchase.

 

 

It seems like that kind of business practice is a violation of your freedoms. The law allows a CCL to be used, so they should accept it. To have a CCL, you must have a valid FOID.

 

Imagine if a car dealer refused to sell to you because you had an out-of-state driver's license. It seems like a foolish business practice. Why take the risk of losing a sale to someone who is perfectly within their rights to buy?

 

I suppose they have the right to refuse a sale to anyone for any reason...or do they? A baker can't refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding. A Denny's can't refuse to serve blacks.



#9 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 01:15 PM

 

 

what KWC said - many dealers have taken a business decision and accept only FOID cards for sales 

 

Yep.  Stores can decide (either on purpose or via ignorance) to only accept a FOID card as a matter of business practice.  But from what I've seen both personally and here on the forum:  Most stores are now "in the know" and will accept your CCW (as they legally can) for gun and/or ammo purchase.

 

 

It seems like that kind of business practice is a violation of your freedoms. The law allows a CCL to be used, so they should accept it. To have a CCL, you must have a valid FOID.

 

Imagine if a car dealer refused to sell to you because you had an out-of-state driver's license. It seems like a foolish business practice. Why take the risk of losing a sale to someone who is perfectly within their rights to buy?

 

I suppose they have the right to refuse a sale to anyone for any reason...or do they? A baker can't refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding. A Denny's can't refuse to serve blacks.

 

Are you saying that if you are gay and black from out of state you can't get a FOID card????   :frantics:


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#10 Xwing

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 02:49 PM

Yep.  Stores can decide (either on purpose or via ignorance) to only accept a FOID card as a matter of business practice.  But from what I've seen both personally and here on the forum:  Most stores are now "in the know" and will accept your CCW (as they legally can) for gun and/or ammo purchase.

 
It seems like that kind of business practice is a violation of your freedoms. The law allows a CCL to be used, so they should accept it. To have a CCL, you must have a valid FOID.
 
Imagine if a car dealer refused to sell to you because you had an out-of-state driver's license. It seems like a foolish business practice. Why take the risk of losing a sale to someone who is perfectly within their rights to buy?
 
I suppose they have the right to refuse a sale to anyone for any reason...or do they? A baker can't refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding. A Denny's can't refuse to serve blacks.

 
I would imagine it is mostly because of ignorance.  Not everyone is as up-to-date on the laws as we are here.  But of course it is silly for a store selling firearms to not know all the current firearm laws.  The other reason could be one of business practice (e.g. if they didn't want to bother to train their employees to check for one of two IDs or if their "FOID Card" field on their computer systems couldn't handle the extra two digits in a CCW license number vs FOID).  Both are foolish, but not exactly a big deal.
 
As for the other stuff:  A business should have the right to determine who they serve.  The government pushing that baker out of business (instead of simply free market pushing them out of business) is a tragedy and a move toward more big brother government not allowing people to have their own opinions.

Edited by Xwing, 17 November 2015 - 02:50 PM.

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#11 soylentgreen

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:29 PM

 

 
As for the other stuff:  A business should have the right to determine who they serve.  The government pushing that baker out of business (instead of simply free market pushing them out of business) is a tragedy and a move toward more big brother government not allowing people to have their own opinions.

 

 

I agree completely. But, if we are going to have a requirement for a baker to make a gay wedding cake, then we ought to demand the same treatment for customers of every other consumer product.



#12 ultra magnus

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 08:30 PM

An FFL can refuse a sale of a firearm for ANY reason.

#13 chislinger

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:02 PM

Wait... You need a FOID to buy guns?  The guy I get mine from just opens his trunk and lets me pick one.......

Oh, you go to those fancy gun dealers. I have to meet a guy in a smelly alley and pick one out of his trench coat.
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#14 RandyP

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 06:24 AM

On a 'plus' side, neither the FOID nor the CCW cards weigh a lot or take up a lot of space. I have no problem managing to lug both around in my wallet without needing a Sherpa - LOL


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#15 vito

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 08:14 AM

As was pointed out in earlier threads, carrying both cards doesn't hurt, unless you lose your wallet. Then you have no way to buy ammo or guns or prove that you are a legal gun owner in Illinois. Now that the CCL serves in lieu of a FOID, leaving the FOID in a safe place is  prudent. Carry the CCL and you are covered legally for everything that the FOID covered, plus your right to carry. If your wallet is lost or stolen, you still have the FOID for basic firearm actions. It would have been even simpler if IL had offered a code on your Drivers License to also show that you are licensed to carry. Then we would only need one ID card for everything. 


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#16 BIGDEESUL

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 08:37 AM

As was pointed out in earlier threads, carrying both cards doesn't hurt, unless you lose your wallet. Then you have no way to buy ammo or guns or prove that you are a legal gun owner in Illinois. Now that the CCL serves in lieu of a FOID, leaving the FOID in a safe place is  prudent. Carry the CCL and you are covered legally for everything that the FOID covered, plus your right to carry. If your wallet is lost or stolen, you still have the FOID for basic firearm actions. It would have been even simpler if IL had offered a code on your Drivers License to also show that you are licensed to carry. Then we would only need one ID card for everything. 

Yeah but there's people who freak out at the thought that the clerk asking for ID on an alcohol purchase will know they have a CCL and their cover will be blown.

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#17 TRJ

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 09:39 AM

As was pointed out in earlier threads, carrying both cards doesn't hurt, unless you lose your wallet. Then you have no way to buy ammo or guns or prove that you are a legal gun owner in Illinois. Now that the CCL serves in lieu of a FOID, leaving the FOID in a safe place is  prudent. Carry the CCL and you are covered legally for everything that the FOID covered, plus your right to carry. If your wallet is lost or stolen, you still have the FOID for basic firearm actions. It would have been even simpler if IL had offered a code on your Drivers License to also show that you are licensed to carry. Then we would only need one ID card for everything. 

Yeah but there's people who freak out at the thought that the clerk asking for ID on an alcohol purchase will know they have a CCL and their cover will be blown.



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#18 vito

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 09:37 AM

I don't advertise that I am carrying, but I could not care less if folks know that I am licensed. Not long ago an acquaintance who knows my beleifs about guns and carrying said "I was wondering if you are carrying right now?". I answered, "I guess you'll have to keep wondering". 


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#19 mauserme

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 11:42 AM

Beyond privacy concerns, some of the things that need to be considered about combining the FOID card or FCCL with a DL are:

>  DL issuance is handled quickly and easily.  Combining it with FOID/FCCL may reduce that efficiency, requiring pre-planning just to keep the ability to drive at renewal.

>  Suspended or revoked FOID cards and/or carry licenses will require re-issuance of the DL, potentially adding another complication to driving privileges.

>  A DL suspension would require an FOID/FCCL to be reissued.  Given the often problematic nature of issuing these, making reissue potentially necessary based on your driving habits might invite more problems than it's worth.

>  Not every Illinois gun owner and/or concealed carry licensee is licensed to drive a vehicle.  Separate systems will still need to remain in place.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's more complicated (and maybe less desirable) than you might think.
 



#20 Xwing

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 01:27 PM

Beyond privacy concerns, some of the things that need to be considered about combining the FOID card or FCCL with a DL are:
>  DL issuance is handled quickly and easily.  Combining it with FOID/FCCL may reduce that efficiency, requiring pre-planning just to keep the ability to drive at renewal.

>  Suspended or revoked FOID cards and/or carry licenses will require re-issuance of the DL, potentially adding another complication to driving privileges.

>  A DL suspension would require an FOID/FCCL to be reissued.  Given the often problematic nature of issuing these, making reissue potentially necessary based on your driving habits might invite more problems than it's worth.

>  Not every Illinois gun owner and/or concealed carry licensee is licensed to drive a vehicle.  Separate systems will still need to remain in place.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's more complicated (and maybe less desirable) than you might think.


Valid points. Of course all can be mitigated, but with some effort. IMO it'd be nice to have it on the DL, but it's not a big deal and not worth fighting for. I really don't care about another 1/10 of an ounce in my wallet in order to exercise my rights.

Edited by Xwing, 19 November 2015 - 01:27 PM.

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#21 DD123

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:37 PM

I tend to carry cash and credit cards in one wallet, and then have a separate ID wallet with my ID's; FOID, CCL, DL, and debit card.  This way if for whatever reason I'm either robbed or lose my wallet, I still have the most important stuff in another pocket.  Credit cards can be canceled pretty easily and any charges removed.  Debit card is tied directly to my bank account and I don't really want to lose the firearms cards or dl.  

 

To answer the question, even though it's been answer six ways from Sunday already, you don't need to carry the FOID if you don't want to.  Some retailers are still requiring it though so I keep mine on me.  


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#22 WARFACE

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:50 PM

So....do we need to carry our FOID and our CCL?  :cool:


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#23 Joebillybob

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:32 PM

So....do we need to carry our FOID and our CCL?  :cool:

 

looks like we need a new thread asking that question...



#24 WARFACE

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:40 PM

 

So....do we need to carry our FOID and our CCL?  :cool:

 

looks like we need a new thread asking that question...

 

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


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#25 Xwing

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 08:09 AM

So....do we need to carry our FOID and our CCL?  :cool:

 
looks like we need a new thread asking that question...


:rofl: I know that was in jest. But I don't mind when there are duplicate threads. Sometimes the "Search" function will not find what it should, and we get new people on this board all the time who might not know all the intricacies of gun laws that some of the regulars do. It's no big deal to answer again, and always helpful to educate and inform. :)

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