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#61 jrsavoie

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 08:49 AM

That law went into effect January 2011. I believe it was passed in July 2010. It was sponsored by Kirk Dillard. A very unfortunate decision for somebody that has been so helpful in the fight for gun rights.

I heard that the bill was presented to him as a piece of do little, feel good, look tough on crime legislation. Few people looked at the possible ramifications as to how the bill could be enforced if passed into law.

There was a disclaimer in the bill - something to the effect of being someplace you are not supposed to be with a gun and no FOID. Which could be interpretted many ways.

I don't know that the law has been abused yet but it is bound to be abused as it is. I heard one story about a guy in Kankakee that had a ggun he inherited from his father that got arrested but no verification or details.

I will check and see if I can find more details.

They always talk about intent of the law. Intent means nothing in how a law will be enforced. Wording is everything.

Evidenced by how a few years ago they were confiscating vehicles when hunters leaned their guns on them.

HB5832

If my computer wasn't messed up I had more info that I would have copied and pasted. Does anybody have a usable desktop to sell cheap? If so feel free to email/contact me.



There is also the FOID law they passed last year that makes it easy to get a mandatory year in jail for being in the wrong place in posession of a gun with an expired FOID.


I share your frustration with all the new, inane laws that our dear legislators come up with. But, having watched the legislature pretty closely last spring, I must have missed one. Can you tell me the bill number on this "law" that was passed, or give us a little more detail?

Thanks,

Tim


Edited by jrsavoie, 22 January 2012 - 08:56 AM.


#62 abolt243

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:00 AM

That law went into effect January 2011. I believe it was passed in July 2010. It was sponsored by Kirk Dillard. A very unfortunate decision for somebody that has been so helpful in the fight for gun rights.

I heard that the bill was presented to him as a piece of do little, feel good, look tough on crime legislation. Few people looked at the possible ramifications as to how the bill could be enforced if passed into law.

There was a disclaimer in the bill - something to the effect of being someplace you are not supposed to be with a gun and no FOID. Which could be interpretted many ways.

I don't know that the law has been abused yet but it is bound to be abused as it is. I heard one story about a guy in Kankakee that had a ggun he inherited from his father that got arrested but no verification or details.

I will check and see if I can find more details.

They always talk about intent of the law. Intent means nothing in how a law will be enforced. Wording is everything.

Evidenced by how a few years ago they were confiscating vehicles when hunters leaned their guns on them.

HB5832

If my computer wasn't messed up I had more info that I would have copied and pasted. Does anybody have a usable desktop to sell cheap? If so feel free to email/contact me.



There is also the FOID law they passed last year that makes it easy to get a mandatory year in jail for being in the wrong place in posession of a gun with an expired FOID.


I share your frustration with all the new, inane laws that our dear legislators come up with. But, having watched the legislature pretty closely last spring, I must have missed one. Can you tell me the bill number on this "law" that was passed, or give us a little more detail?

Thanks,

Tim


Please do. I don't remember this from two years ago and can't find any bill where Dillard was the primary sponsor that affected the FOID law.
Thanks,

Tim
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#63 45superman

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:28 AM

Jrsavoie, could you be referring to HB 5832? Dillard was one of the Senate sponsors, and my understanding of what it does is fairly similar to what you describe.
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#64 abolt243

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:42 AM

Jrsavoie, could you be referring to HB 5832? Dillard was one of the Senate sponsors, and my understanding of what it does is fairly similar to what you describe.


If that's it, then it doesn't seem nearly as egregious as Jrsavoie's initial description. Nothing about location. Just makes it a class 4 felony if a person is caught with a loaded, uncased, accessible firearm AND does not have a valid FOID. It spells out the penalty to be levied against people convicted of this offense. Other parts of the FOID spell out special penalties for being caught with the above firearm in schools, gov't buildings, etc. But that's not part of this bill, nor is it new. Looks like 5832 simply spells out the level of felony charges for someone that breaks existing law.

I'm still betting that the SA's of Cook bargain away the charges to get a conviction on a lesser charge.

Tim
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#65 jrsavoie

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 07:52 PM

It sounds an awful lot like somebody hunting with an expired FOID to me. People should be on top of that but it's easy enough to let things slip sometimes.

I think you take that law a little to lightly.

#66 45superman

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 08:09 PM

It sounds an awful lot like somebody hunting with an expired FOID to me. People should be on top of that but it's easy enough to let things slip sometimes.

I think you take that law a little to lightly.


I see it kinda along the same lines you do, but then again, I'm something of a rabble rousing trouble maker :rolleyes:. I'm more than a little embarrassed that I didn't seem to even mention it in the '09/'10 reference list.

I did at least write about it here (excerpt):

In other words, if you carry a gun in a condition in which it has not been rendered useless for immediate self-defense, and if you do not have a "Firearm Owners ID" (FOID) card--the Illinois permission slip required to possess a gun (or even a single round of ammunition)--you have committed a felony (and earned, according to federal law) a lifetime ban on firearm (or even body armor) ownership.

Actually, that is already the case under current law--the new legislation would take away the judge's discretion in imposing a sentence, making the one to three year sentence mandatory.


Please excuse the odd formatting in that article, and don't get me started on how badly I despise Examiner.
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#67 billzfx4

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 08:23 PM

What if the person had an expired FOID, because the ISP can't keep up their end of THE LAW????
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#68 abolt243

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:27 PM


It sounds an awful lot like somebody hunting with an expired FOID to me. People should be on top of that but it's easy enough to let things slip sometimes.

I think you take that law a little to lightly.


I see it kinda along the same lines you do, but then again, I'm something of a rabble rousing trouble maker :rolleyes:. I'm more than a little embarrassed that I didn't seem to even mention it in the '09/'10 reference list.

I did at least write about it here (excerpt):

In other words, if you carry a gun in a condition in which it has not been rendered useless for immediate self-defense, and if you do not have a "Firearm Owners ID" (FOID) card--the Illinois permission slip required to possess a gun (or even a single round of ammunition)--you have committed a felony (and earned, according to federal law) a lifetime ban on firearm (or even body armor) ownership.

Actually, that is already the case under current law--the new legislation would take away the judge's discretion in imposing a sentence, making the one to three year sentence mandatory.


Please excuse the odd formatting in that article, and don't get me started on how badly I despise Examiner.


OK, I see where you guys are coming from. But I don't think that was the intent, nor do I see it being used in that fashion. It does bring up a good point though, perhaps one that needs to be addressed in future legislation.

And .45 Super, yes, you are a rabble-rousing trouble maker. Thank God you're on our side!!

Tim
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB


#69 abolt243

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:32 PM

What if the person had an expired FOID, because the ISP can't keep up their end of THE LAW????


While I still think that the law adresses REVOKED foids, not lapsed ones, I'm thinking that if you had some proof that you sent in the application on time and that the ISP had been sitting on it for longer than 30 days, and you were not ineligible for a foid, you'd have a pretty good case. Might have to spend a day in court, but any state's attorney south of Cook county would probably drop charges.

BTW, that's another advantage of sending in your applications by certified mail/return receipt requested as I suggest all the time. Gives you proof as to when you mailed it and when they got it.

Tim
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB


#70 45superman

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:34 PM

And .45 Super, yes, you are a rabble-rousing trouble maker. Thank God you're on our side!!


Much appreciated, Tim.

Good talking to you after all this time. I've been largely absent for the last couple years, but I suspect you know I love you folks.
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#71 abolt243

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 10:04 PM


And .45 Super, yes, you are a rabble-rousing trouble maker. Thank God you're on our side!!


Much appreciated, Tim.

Good talking to you after all this time. I've been largely absent for the last couple years, but I suspect you know I love you folks.



Good to have you back. Everybody needs a break on occasion. Legislature will fire up again in a couple of weeks and we can get busy watching the bills. BTW, we love you too!
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB


#72 piker73

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:29 PM

I like the idea of the numbers, but the source he got them from is off, I live in menard county and personaly know of probably couple dozen hunters that live in Athens "next town over" they are all current fiod holders and that spread sheet only shows 1 person, I would imagine it has to be in hundreds for that town

#73 abolt243

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

It's 2007 data, sorted by zip codes. Sometimes is misleading as to actual physical location. The county numbers should be pretty close for our needs. You could do a new FOIA request and put together a new spreadsheet with up to date data. Then we'd know for sure. Ol' Coach that did this passed on a couple of years ago. That man was passionate about RTC in IL.

Tim
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB


#74 Amused

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:50 PM

I received new numbers TODAY based on a FOIA I filed last week. Here's the PDF.


I also created an XLS. How can I upload the spreadsheet?


Attached File  ACTIVE FOID CARD REPORT ISP 5-3-13.pdf   229.99KB   219 downloads?

#75 skinnyb82

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

Whaaatt? 92 from Galesburg in Warren County? Galesburg is in Knox. Those numbers actually suggest that at the least 17% of Galesburg residents have a FOID. But I can't wrap my head around the whole 4 other counties thing...unless they count residents who moved from (or to) the different county (city) after their FOID was issued. which is still weird.

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#76 Livewire18

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 06:58 PM

I received new numbers TODAY based on a FOIA I filed last week. Here's the PDF.


I also created an XLS. How can I upload the spreadsheet?


Attached File  ACTIVE FOID CARD REPORT ISP 5-3-13.pdf   229.99KB   219 downloads?


I love some of the misspellings and obviously wrong ones. Like Jhicago in Will county, or the other misspellings of joliet.

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#77 Amused

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

Whaaatt? 92 from Galesburg in Warren County? Galesburg is in Knox. Those numbers actually suggest that at the least 17% of Galesburg residents have a FOID. But I can't wrap my head around the whole 4 other counties thing...unless they count residents who moved from (or to) the different county (city) after their FOID was issued. which is still weird.

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Note that these applications are sent in by paper and are typed into the system. Updates are probably manual too. So if you move, it's conceivable that they fail to update the county, for instance. See also the earlier posts about the 2007 numbers.

What makes our 10 percent interesting is that we could pick the Democratic governor in the primary. I think Madigan sees that

#78 abolt243

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:10 PM


Whaaatt? 92 from Galesburg in Warren County? Galesburg is in Knox. Those numbers actually suggest that at the least 17% of Galesburg residents have a FOID. But I can't wrap my head around the whole 4 other counties thing...unless they count residents who moved from (or to) the different county (city) after their FOID was issued. which is still weird.

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Note that these applications are sent in by paper and are typed into the system. Updates are probably manual too. So if you move, it's conceivable that they fail to update the county, for instance. See also the earlier posts about the 2007 numbers.

What makes our 10 percent interesting is that we could pick the Democratic governor in the primary. I think Madigan sees that


Look at a map. Galesburg nearly sits on the county line. Those 92 probably do live in Warren county but have a Galesburg mailing address. You'll find instances of that throughout the database.
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB


#79 RoadyRunner

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

So if you move, it's conceivable that they fail to update the county, for instance.


That may explain the 1 in 'Oswego' in the county of 'Cook'... I used to live in Chicago before I moved out to Oswego - about 10 years ago (and 1 FOID renewal). Pretty sure I'm not the only one though.

4800-ISY out of 29,000-ish total - just over 16%. That's a little lower than I expected to be honest.

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#80 skinnyb82

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:25 PM

I got a buddy who lived in Boulder Hill then just moved to Montgomery and on crap...I need to call him and tell him that he better update his address with the SOS and ISP because he's talking about buying a gun. He's got a FOID just no guns.

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#81 patriot1776

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:28 PM


What if the person had an expired FOID, because the ISP can't keep up their end of THE LAW????


While I still think that the law adresses REVOKED foids, not lapsed ones, I'm thinking that if you had some proof that you sent in the application on time and that the ISP had been sitting on it for longer than 30 days, and you were not ineligible for a foid, you'd have a pretty good case. Might have to spend a day in court, but any state's attorney south of Cook county would probably drop charges.

BTW, that's another advantage of sending in your applications by certified mail/return receipt requested as I suggest all the time. Gives you proof as to when you mailed it and when they got it.

Tim

There also is no law broken for being early . Just about everyone in the state knows the FOIDS are backlogged . Mine hit the mail box about 90 days before expiration , had it in my hands 62 days later so no lapse.

#82 BixBix78

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:29 PM

23k in Rockford ...15% Foid density. Also lower than I expected.

#83 Amused

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:46 PM

I just emailed the numbers to my state senator as an FYI....worth thinking about.

#84 Livewire18

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:16 AM

You can tell how JACKED up this state is though. It is very simple to have requirements in a program. How is that they they don't have a list of ABC city can be in XYZ county? Or the fact that ABCDEF is not an actual city in the state? This list truly does prove the incompetence within the state government.

Edited by Livewire18, 12 June 2013 - 09:16 AM.

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#85 illhunter

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:24 AM

Isn't this info compiled by the ISP? They fall into the broad category of state workers but to my minds' eye should be more disciplined, trained and responsible. That's why they got to administer FOID instead of DNR or anyone else. Their lack of apparent intelligence is frightening. So is the unlawful delay in processing applications. They are behind on all new and renewals apps. Given the rush to CCW I see their problem but as I disagree with the premise I have no compassion. Why require a background check on foid then on each gun buy then again on CCW? (Answer: Follow the $).
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#86 Stargeezer

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:32 PM

That's enlightening. Peoria (Peoria Co.) with a population of around 180,000 has 11,800 FOID holders, in Pekin (Tazewell Co.) with a population of 32,000 has around 5,000.

No wonder there are so many more murders in Peoria than in Pekin. A guy could get shot there. :D

Edited by Stargeezer, 15 July 2013 - 10:32 PM.

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#87 tkroenlein

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:17 PM

Amused-Was there a total reported?

It took me awhile to figure out how this was listed. The town name indicates an entire ZIP code. That's why there are so many towns listed under multiple adjacent counties.


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#88 GAS3987

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

Of these FOIDs, the criminals who are doing the shooting are included, right? :frantics:
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#89 Amused

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

Sorry for delay, was on vacation. The count was just shy of 1.5 Million as a total on 5/1. Must be beyond that by now.

#90 Amused

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

Of these FOIDs, the criminals who are doing the shooting are included, right? :frantics:

Yes of course. They couldn't shoot unless they own guns. And they can't own guns without a FOID. So there ya go.




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