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Correctional Officers?


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#1 Hail Caesar

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:28 PM

Under the new law, do Illinois Department of Corrections Officers get a full exemption to training?

Or just 8 hours just like the Military with honorable DD214?

Thank you,

#2 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:42 PM

Currently employed as DOC = full exemption.

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#3 Hail Caesar

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:43 PM

Any link to were Molly or Todd have confirmed this?

#4 Hail Caesar

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:44 PM

And what credit do retired or former Officers get?

#5 kevinmcc

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:50 PM

And what credit do retired or former Officers get?


This is were the nonsense starts.

ISP gets to make the rules.

Beside having proof of training, you must have course outline, have that approved by the ISP, and additionally you'll need a letter that says you were not terminated.

All that garbage for 8 hours credit.

You thank Phelps for making it harder.

Before to get 8 hours credit you just needed proof of training, you must have course outline, have that approved by the ISP.

I am still angry over the changes that made the whole thing more convoluted.
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#6 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:51 PM

No need for Molly or Todd to confirm. It is in a Public Act that Quinn signed on 12/6.

Retired/former DOC get 8 hours. But they need to provide proof of prior employment and proof that they left "in good standing".

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#7 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:53 PM


And what credit do retired or former Officers get?


This is were the nonsense starts.

ISP gets to make the rules.

Beside having proof of training, you must have course outline, have that approved by the ISP, and additionally you'll need a letter that says you were not terminated.

All that garbage for 8 hours credit.

You thank Phelps for making it harder.

Before to get 8 hours credit you just needed proof of training, you must have course outline, have that approved by the ISP.

I am still angry over the changes that made the whole thing more convoluted.


To my knowledge, that is not true. Except for the part about proof that you left in good standing, that is true.

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Edited by bobapunk, 31 December 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#8 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:55 PM

Look up Public Act 098-0600 and read the changes to Section 75.

Here you go: http://www.ilga.gov/...p?Name=098-0600

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Edited by bobapunk, 31 December 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#9 Tango7

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:00 PM


And what credit do retired or former Officers get?


This is were the nonsense starts.

ISP gets to make the rules.

Beside having proof of training, you must have course outline, have that approved by the ISP, and additionally you'll need a letter that says you were not terminated.

All that garbage for 8 hours credit.

You thank Phelps for making it harder.

Before to get 8 hours credit you just needed proof of training, you must have course outline, have that approved by the ISP.

I am still angry over the changes that made the whole thing more convoluted.


To my knowledge, that is not true. Except for the part about proof that you left in good standing, that is true.

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The 8 hours of credit for a 40+ hour State of Illinois written and administered class part for law enforcement only is. Thus my sigline.

Edited by Tango7, 31 December 2013 - 05:02 PM.

You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#10 Hail Caesar

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:19 PM

Tango,

So are you saying active folks get only 8 hours of credit, or they get the full 16 credit? And retirees and former Officers get 8 hours credit?

#11 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:27 PM

Tango,

So are you saying active folks get only 8 hours of credit, or they get the full 16 credit? And retirees and former Officers get 8 hours credit?


Did you even read the link I posted?

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#12 Hail Caesar

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:50 PM

Yes, I've read it dozens of times.

But I am trying to stay 110% within the law. That is why I am trying to find out for absolute sure what the law states because I'm not a constitutional lawyer. That is why I was trying to get Todd or Molly to respond to this. I know they would know for absolute.



#13 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:01 PM

What I linked to is the law... If you read it "dozens of times" you should be pretty clear as to what it says... It is not that terribly worded...

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Edited by bobapunk, 31 December 2013 - 06:01 PM.


#14 Hail Caesar

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:13 PM

Untill I get confirmation from Bost, Phelps, or someone of the likes of Molly or Todd ;

I dont feel confedent in what it says or means. There has been a lot of "interpretation" of this law. That includes by the general public, trainers, members here, ISP, and even legislators.

#15 bobapunk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:20 PM

Then why did you come here and ask?

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#16 Tango7

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 08:53 PM

Tango,

So are you saying active folks get only 8 hours of credit, or they get the full 16 credit? And retirees and former Officers get 8 hours credit?


It is my understanding between what I read in the new PA and here that current and active LEOs (and now COs) are exempt from the entire course.

The new PA added the word "currently", this removing the gray area that may have eased the process for former LEOs who separated service before being eligible for LEOSA or retirement, as well as the requirement for the "mother may I" letter.

Whether this has anything to do with the Sheriff Dart still being angry over the lawsuit about his refusing to issue retired credentials to deputies has yet to be confirmed, but he's the highest profile individual to express such a dislike of his own retirees, although it's not far from the official Chicago position as expressed by Daley after HR218 became law.
You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#17 Chuck

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:23 PM

I am a county corrections officer and When I applied this morning the info I needed for ISP for the exemption was a letter from the law enforcement agency that I work for (on department letterhead) stating that I m an active employed corrections officer, have had all department training, and authorized by my Agency to carry a firearm. A signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of my department, and that it be notarized. Scan letter to application.

#18 oldude

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:05 PM

I am a county corrections officer and When I applied this morning the info I needed for ISP for the exemption was a letter from the law enforcement agency that I work for (on department letterhead) stating that I m an active employed corrections officer, have had all department training, and authorized by my Agency to carry a firearm. A signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of my department, and that it be notarized. Scan letter to application.


Where does it say that it has to be notarized? Not looking to argue, just curious. I'm getting my letter tomorrow and if I need it notarized I'll get that done at the same time.

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Edited by oldude, 01 January 2014 - 07:09 PM.


#19 kevinmcc

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 08:04 PM

To my knowledge, that is not true. Except for the part about proof that you left in good standing, that is true.
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You need re-read Section 75( j ).

( j ) The Department and certified firearms instructors
shall recognize up to 8 hours of training already completed
toward the 16 hour training requirement under this Section if
the training course is approved by the Department and was
completed in connection
with the applicant's previous
employment as a law enforcement or corrections officer
. Any
remaining hours that the applicant completes must at least
cover the classroom subject matter of paragraph ( 4 ) of
subsection ( b ) of this Section, and the range qualification in
subsection ( c ) of this Section. A former law enforcement or
corrections officer seeking credit under this subsection ( j )
shall provide evidence that he or she separated from employment
in good standing
from each law enforcement agency where he or
she was employed. An applicant who was discharged from a law
enforcement agency for misconduct or disciplinary reasons is
not eligible for credit under this subsection ( j ).
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13.)


It is a load of bull poop and so convoluted beyond belief.

I am surprised there is not a bribry option written some where.
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#20 bobapunk

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 08:27 PM

Wouldn't most/all LEO/DOC have taken the MFT? MFT is an ISP course, is it not?

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#21 Tango7

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 09:13 PM

Wouldn't most/all LEO/DOC have taken the MFT? MFT is an ISP course, is it not?

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Yes, yes it is.

Written by the State to State standards (50 ILCS 710, The Peace Officer Firearm Training Act), administered by State LE Instructors to students who met some form of criteria within the ILCS to be considered Law Enforcement, and tested to State Standards (JCAR Part 1720 the Police Training Act), including lectures by attorneys and experts in the statutory and case laws concerning the justified use of force, range time including over 800 rounds fired, hitting a 8.5" x 14" target at distances up to 25 yards in positions ranging from standing holstered to rollover prone using both strong and weak hands.

Oh yeah, while making your shots at those distances within a time limit.

But if you're not current you don't meet the exemption, and your 40+ hours is given a 5:1 reduction to be worth 8 hours. Sounds like they applied the "usual and customary" reimbursement schedule for Medicare payments.

Now it sounds like they're making up rules requiring active LEO to get a "mother may I" letter as they are requiring of the separated-not-retired guys.

Edited by Tango7, 01 January 2014 - 09:14 PM.

You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#22 Chuck

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:41 AM

sorry oldude I could have sworn it said had to be notarized and signed by the chief law enforcement officer, either they changed it or I misread it. Ether is possible

#23 oldude

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

Not a problem Chuck. I just wanted to make sure I got it right. I didn't want to get an email from the ISP saying I had to have it notarized.

#24 rotty_rott

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:04 PM

Just spoke with my Training Supervisor at work (IDOC) about getting the letter ISP is requiring. He said he'll have to do some checking to see if it's something he'll even be allowed to do. From the sound of it he has to speak with the warden to get permission to do the letter. Sounding like I might be better off spending the money and taking the 2nd 8hrs to go along with my DD214, rather than wait on people at work to decide wth they're going to do if anything to allow us to jump through ISPs loops.
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#25 rotty_rott

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:17 AM

I spoke with our assistant warden yesterday about the letter and he said they have asked the powers that be in Springfield and are awaiting further direction. I'm thinking we're pretty well out of luck in getting it.
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#26 howie

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:30 PM

IDOC Chief of Operations has a copy of the law, and a screen shot of the ISP waiver page. Should hear something pretty quick, I hope.

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#27 howie

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:17 PM

Memo from DOC Chief of Operations Yurkovich came out today. Send written, or E-mail request to facility training coordinator, who will forward request to training academy, who will verify training requirements have been met. Then Academy will send letter to facility and employee to be used during permit application process.

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"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people!"

"I am not well versed in history, but I will submit to your recollection, whether liberty has been destroyed most often by the licentiousness of the people, or by the tyranny of rulers. I imagine, sir, you will find the balance on the side of tyranny."- Patrick Henry


#28 stoph68

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:55 AM

OK, Just so I don't get blasted for saying the following I want it to be known that I fully believe that 16 hrs of "training" to earn the ability to practice a "Constitutional Right" is complete BS... That being said.... We should all understand that the second 8 hrs. of training is almost completely devoted to reviewing all applicable Federal and State laws that govern firearms. Including the new CC law. That is why the only people who were completely exempt from this "training" were Current LEOs and CCW instructors since they are the people who we expect to know the laws. It's not about having exceptional skill with a firearm........ Given this mentality I'm honestly surprised that active duty COs get more than 8 hrs. credit. Good for you to all current duty COs!... Take the gift and run with it... Please study the Laws closely before you carry.

#29 Houndawg

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:28 PM

Most cops have no idea what the laws are. Security guards also get exemption. What training in the laws do they have? There are many instructors who don't know the law. Your beef about Correctional Officers is moot.

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#30 howie

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 09:51 PM

I have been telling all my coworkers (IDOC) that if they don't at least take the time to study the law, then ask many questions, they are setting themselves up for big trouble. Until I get my instructor creds back from ISP I can't "teach" but as soon as I do, I will be walking my guys through the nuts and bolts of the new laws.

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"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people!"

"I am not well versed in history, but I will submit to your recollection, whether liberty has been destroyed most often by the licentiousness of the people, or by the tyranny of rulers. I imagine, sir, you will find the balance on the side of tyranny."- Patrick Henry





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