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Tan Card / Perc Card Explanation?


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#91 Bobbyjones0

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:58 AM

When I did the app, I didn't see an option to submit verification of training. I didn't upload any training docs, just put my tan card number in. When you do your tan card training all your certs are verified by the state. I hope I didn't miss something on the app

#92 kestrou

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:00 AM

I just went through the online process myself - and see they've added a spot to put in your FCC number (starts with "229"). I also talked to a gal at the ISP (217-782-7980) and she said that would work.

So, fingers crossed, this is in motion and my training was covered by my previously issued FCC - woohoo!

kestrou

#93 Bobbyjones0

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

So you didn't see a spot to upload training docs either?

#94 Burtonrider10022

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:52 PM

I called the number at the top of the ISP's FAQ this morning, and was told that you must have an ACTIVE Firearm Control Card (FCC/Tan Card) to be exempt from the full 16 hours of required CCL training. If you do NOT have an ACTIVE Tan Card the ISP will only honor 8 hours of prior training. I replied that the state law says "a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section"' and she said "yes, sir, but it must be active." I said that the state statute disagrees, to which she somewhat rudely (more irritated) retorted about how she wasn't here to argue with me. I agreed, and apologized, reassuring her that I'm aware that she wasn't the one making these decisions, and I don't mean to 'shoot the messenger'. She was quite appreciative, and offered to take my name/number and have a supervisor look into the discrepancy and call me back (called at 0945, as of this post I haven't received a call back yet. I understand they're probably very busy and I might not here back for a few days).

I HAVE 'completed the required training' and I HAVE 'been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation.' I'm not quite sure why they think they can just make-up their own requirements.

I'll update this later if/when they call back. Otherwise, I'm just going to try what kestrou did and input the previous FCC number.

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#95 pdpsc

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:49 PM

If you put in the number of an expired, or otherwise inactive, Firearm Control Card (FCC), be prepared to be rejected and possibly lose your $150 fee. Don't shoot the messenger here either. You guys know that the ISP is saying you must have an ACTIVE FCC to receive the exemption from training. If you make the choice to apply with an inactive FCC number, you do so knowing full well that they are requiring that the FCC be active. Again, don't shoot the messenger. I've researched this issue, because I have an FCC (didn't need it to apply for the FCCL, because I'm also an instructor) and I know people who have an FCC or had an FCC. The ISP has always been clear on this issue, right or wrong, that you must have an active FCC to receive the exemption. I'm not getting into whether their opinion is right or wrong, but warning you that if you apply with an inactive FCC, you need to know that you will be rejected and you will quite likely lose your $150 application fee too.
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#96 kestrou

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:21 PM

If you put in the number of an expired, or otherwise inactive, Firearm Control Card (FCC), be prepared to be rejected and possibly lose your $150 fee. Don't shoot the messenger here either. You guys know that the ISP is saying you must have an ACTIVE FCC to receive the exemption from training. If you make the choice to apply with an inactive FCC number, you do so knowing full well that they are requiring that the FCC be active. Again, don't shoot the messenger. I've researched this issue, because I have an FCC (didn't need it to apply for the FCCL, because I'm also an instructor) and I know people who have an FCC or had an FCC. The ISP has always been clear on this issue, right or wrong, that you must have an active FCC to receive the exemption. I'm not getting into whether their opinion is right or wrong, but warning you that if you apply with an inactive FCC, you need to know that you will be rejected and you will quite likely lose your $150 application fee too.


Pdpsc,

Not shooting the messenger (you) here - the ISP can say whatever they want, and honestly do whatever they want - but if they deny an application contrary to the clearly stated law, then that is an illegal denial which I will be happy to pursue further.

We didn't get the law passed to let the state then do whatever it wants, even completely contrary. Otherwise, what is the value of the law!

Regards,

kestrou

#97 Bobbyjones0

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:10 AM

Out of curiosity can anyone point me to where ISP has said the FCC needs to be active?

#98 Raptor12

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:38 AM

Out of curiosity can anyone point me to where ISP has said the FCC needs to be active?

Not really involved in this but you might look here. Illinois P.A. 098-0600 Trailer bill Eff 12-06-2013. ammended 430 ILCS 66-75, Sec 75 (g) (h) (i).

#99 Burtonrider10022

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:00 PM

Not really involved in this but you might look here. Illinois P.A. 098-0600 Trailer bill Eff 12-06-2013. ammended 430 ILCS 66-75, Sec 75 (g) (h) (i).


That only amended the portion relating to firearms instructors. The FCC portion still states "and has been issued", and they also changed the comma after " Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board" to a semicolon, further separating the FCC section from the beginning of the sentence.

(h) A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement or corrections officer, who has successfully completed firearms training as required by his or her law enforcement agency and is authorized by his or her agency to carry a firearm; a person currently certified as a firearms instructor by this Act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section.


http://www.ilga.gov/...p?Name=098-0600

The underlined parts are what was amended, obviously.

Edited by Burtonrider10022, 10 January 2014 - 06:06 PM.

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#100 TJSum1

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:22 PM

I called the number at the top of the ISP's FAQ this morning, and was told that you must have an ACTIVE Firearm Control Card (FCC/Tan Card) to be exempt from the full 16 hours of required CCL training. If you do NOT have an ACTIVE Tan Card the ISP will only honor 8 hours of prior training. I replied that the state law says "a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section"' and she said "yes, sir, but it must be active." I said that the state statute disagrees, to which she somewhat rudely (more irritated) retorted about how she wasn't here to argue with me. I agreed, and apologized, reassuring her that I'm aware that she wasn't the one making these decisions, and I don't mean to 'shoot the messenger'. She was quite appreciative, and offered to take my name/number and have a supervisor look into the discrepancy and call me back (called at 0945, as of this post I haven't received a call back yet. I understand they're probably very busy and I might not here back for a few days).

I HAVE 'completed the required training' and I HAVE 'been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation.' I'm not quite sure why they think they can just make-up their own requirements.

I'll update this later if/when they call back. Otherwise, I'm just going to try what kestrou did and input the previous FCC number.

Have you heard back from anyone yet?

#101 kestrou

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:44 PM

I checked status today - my application has been denied because it says "invalid FCN" (firearm card control number) - but it guaranteedly matches!

I called ISP and opened a "trouble ticket" on my application - they're going to look at it and get back to me in a day or two.

If I gave to exercise "the review board" (as defined in the law) then that's what I'll do.

Updates to follow!

kestrou

#102 pdpsc

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:56 PM

I checked status today - my application has been denied because it says "invalid FCN" (firearm card control number) - but it guaranteedly matches!

I called ISP and opened a "trouble ticket" on my application - they're going to look at it and get back to me in a day or two.

If I gave to exercise "the review board" (as defined in the law) then that's what I'll do.

Updates to follow!

kestrou



If you're Firearm Control Card (FCC) is not currently valid, the ISP will not give you the full training exemption. You also won't be going to the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board to argue your case that the ISP should accept your expired, or otherwise inactive, FCC.

You've got three options at this point:

1. Take the concealed carry training course; or
2. Sue the ISP and hope you win that an expired, or otherwise inactive, FCC qualifies for a full training exemption; or
3. Don't get an FCCL.

You're not going to win this fight and even if you did, it would cost you a lot of time and money.
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#103 kestrou

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:20 PM

I checked status today - my application has been denied because it says "invalid FCN" (firearm card control number) - but it guaranteedly matches!

I called ISP and opened a "trouble ticket" on my application - they're going to look at it and get back to me in a day or two.

If I gave to exercise "the review board" (as defined in the law) then that's what I'll do.

Updates to follow!

kestrou



If you're Firearm Control Card (FCC) is not currently valid, the ISP will not give you the full training exemption. You also won't be going to the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board to argue your case that the ISP should accept your expired, or otherwise inactive, FCC.

You've got three options at this point:

1. Take the concealed carry training course; or
2. Sue the ISP and hope you win that an expired, or otherwise inactive, FCC qualifies for a full training exemption; or
3. Don't get an FCCL.

You're not going to win this fight and even if you did, it would cost you a lot of time and money.


Hey pdpsc - thanks for telling me I'm not going to the licensing review board, when I clearly stated I was - care to tell me what else I can/can't do?

Oh yeah, and if you want to let bureaucratic processes contrary to the law go unchallenged, then you just roll right over and go ahead.

Here's hoping you're not the only backup available in whatever the next challenge is...

kestrou

#104 pdpsc

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

Hey pdpsc - thanks for telling me I'm not going to the licensing review board, when I clearly stated I was - care to tell me what else I can/can't do?

Oh yeah, and if you want to let bureaucratic processes contrary to the law go unchallenged, then you just roll right over and go ahead.

Here's hoping you're not the only backup available in whatever the next challenge is...

kestrou



You think I'm against you and other former FCC holders getting a full training exemption and I'm not. I'm trying to give you reality-based information.

This is the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board's purpose: ...to consider any objection to an applicant's eligibility to obtain a license under this Act submitted by a law enforcement agency or the Department (430 ILCS 66/20).

If the ISP says that you cannot get the full training exemption without a valid FCC, they simply deem your application to be incomplete and therefor you are not denied in their eyes and never referred to the CCLRB. You cannot refer yourself to the CCLRB. You get referred to the CCLRB by the ISP or a law enforcement agency.

So how will you get to the CCLRB?

I'm not against you. I'm simply telling you what I have found out in my investigation of this matter for other people I know who have or once had an FCC.
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#105 EricBarabicho

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:07 PM

I checked status today - my application has been denied because it says "invalid FCN" (firearm card control number) - but it guaranteedly matches!

I called ISP and opened a "trouble ticket" on my application - they're going to look at it and get back to me in a day or two.

If I gave to exercise "the review board" (as defined in the law) then that's what I'll do.

Updates to follow!

kestrou


Please let us know since I'm also in the same boat as you are.

#106 Duke II

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

Has anyone followed up on this for those of us who had the original 30 hr "Blue Card" course? Will the state give us 8 hrs training credit? Or are we out of luck and have to take the full 16 hrs?

#107 Molly B.

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 12:19 AM

We are still working on this. Some departments think it's the full 16, other say it's only 8. We thought we were good to go with at least the 8 hrs. credit until JCAR came out with the new ISP certificate and it has no place to credit the 30/40 hr. armed training course at all. So we are still pushing the issue.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#108 pdpsc

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 12:34 AM

We are still working on this. Some departments think it's the full 16, other say it's only 8. We thought we were good to go with at least the 8 hrs. credit until JCAR came out with the new ISP certificate and it has no place to credit the 30/40 hr. armed training course at all. So we are still pushing the issue.



I think the problem you will run into is that the IDFPR approved courses are not taught to a completely uniform standard. Yes, the courses must all have the same elements to meet IDFPR standards, but the course curriculums can vary from approved course to approved course across the companies with approved courses. If they didn't take MFT for full credit, which is the same course curriculum across the state, there is no way you're getting them to take the IDFPR armed training for the full 16 credit. You may get 8, but you'll never get the full 16 credit.
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#109 TAS

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 03:33 PM

Any word?

 

I had a FCC way back in the day also and was told NO credit was given. I called and asked and if there was even a credit for hours and told no also. I was like wait how can a hunting fire arms course give credit but 20 hours of firearms training for a state agency doesn't give any credit. Reply your SOL take the the CCL class



#110 pdpsc

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 03:36 PM

Exactly what you just typed is the status of that.
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#111 Tango7

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 04:04 PM

Any word?
 
I had a FCC way back in the day also and was told NO credit was given. I called and asked and if there was even a credit for hours and told no also. I was like wait how can a hunting fire arms course give credit but 20 hours of firearms training for a state agency doesn't give any credit. Reply your SOL take the the CCL class


Attend a 40 hour MFT program as a sworn officer, then get told the training you took (written in Illinois, administered by the same agency that wrote the standards for your academy, taught in Illinois by Illinois certified law enforcement instructors and took you nearly 1k rounds in practice and completing a timed course of fire at ranges from 5 to 25 yards) which was good enough for you to carry anywhere anytime, is only good if you get a "mother, may I?" letter from every agency you ever worked for, or that the 40 hours (closer to 50) you spent in class is now worth 8.

The prior training portion of the law with no provision for equivalency testing is abysmal.
You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#112 Klaxongreg

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:35 PM

you can start your own company and have a tan,but you wouldn't want to go through all the trouble that's involved.

First you would have to qualify to take the test. Then you would have to pass a test offered twice a year for around $300. Then you would have to get a $1,000,000 professionally liability insurance policy. Then you can pay $500 to apply for the license. Once you have the license, you can show proof of training for the FCC and pay $75 to get an FCC. Then you can pay for the insurance policy every year, $450 to renew your license in 2014 for 3 years and every 3 years thereafter and $45 to renew your FCC every 3 years.

Yahtzee! We have a winner!

#113 Klaxongreg

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:51 PM

you can start your own company and have a tan,but you wouldn't want to go through all the trouble that's involved.

First you would have to qualify to take the test. Then you would have to pass a test offered twice a year for around $300. Then you would have to get a $1,000,000 professionally liability insurance policy. Then you can pay $500 to apply for the license. Once you have the license, you can show proof of training for the FCC and pay $75 to get an FCC. Then you can pay for the insurance policy every year, $450 to renew your license in 2014 for 3 years and every 3 years thereafter and $45 to renew your FCC every 3 years.

Yahtzee! We have a winner!

Or go to work for someone like us or a guard force AND, with the employer's blessing, re-apply for the FCC thus exempting oneself from CCL training.

#114 pdpsc

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 12:36 AM

I went back and read the earlier posts in the resurrected thread and now I'm wondering how Kestrou faired in his quest to get to "the review board". I only want to hear four words from Kestrou "Dan you were right, I look up to you and you're sort of a hero of mine". Well maybe that's more than 4 words, but you get the idea. BTW I stole part of that (paraphrased) from a movie. Bonus points if you can name the movie.
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#115 stm

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:53 AM

I went back and read the earlier posts in the resurrected thread and now I'm wondering how Kestrou faired in his quest to get to "the review board".

I only want to hear four words from Kestrou "Dan you were right, I look up to you and you're sort of a hero of mine". Well maybe that's more than 4 words, but you get the idea. BTW I stole part of that (paraphrased) from a movie. Bonus points if you can name the movie.


Armageddon. Ben Affleck to Bruce Willis.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#116 TAS

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 05:05 AM

I went back and read the earlier posts in the resurrected thread and now I'm wondering how Kestrou faired in his quest to get to "the review board". I only want to hear four words from Kestrou "Dan you were right, I look up to you and you're sort of a hero of mine". Well maybe that's more than 4 words, but you get the idea. BTW I stole part of that (paraphrased) from a movie. Bonus points if you can name the movie.

Im betting he did fair out very well as I said I had several Fac aka tan cards back in my day submitted the info and it was denied not even a lick of credit for it. Im even more baffled why a 8 hr hunting safety course even gets credit its not a safety course on handguns LOL its long guns.

 

Oh well one day this state will crumble and I won't shed a tear for the corruption or the gun nazis 






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