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Update 9/16 talks with state police


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#151 bobapunk

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:53 PM




Hope you have better luck with Sen LaHood than I have - normally he responds very quickly to this but to date nothing - maybe he just doesn't like ME ....


Your mom probably doesn't send him homemade jelly?


hey I make good jelly - maybe I ought to send him a turkey for Thanksgiving ...


Ok, Sen LaHood called me within 45 minutes of my email!

Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there. He also said that they are intentionally moving at a slow, deliberate pace, apparently to ensure that the background checks are accurate...? Why did we pay $55-60 for Livescan if the ISP is going to take all this time to do background checks anyway...?

#152 John Q Public

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:53 PM

What they really need is an "Assault Computer" with some fiber optic high capacity clips!

Magazines for us, but it worked better with clip. :)

#153 wtr100

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:54 PM

Ok, Sen LaHood called me within 45 minutes of my email!

Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there. He also said that they are intentionally moving at a slow, deliberate pace, apparently to ensure that the background checks are accurate...? Why did we pay $55-60 for Livescan if the ISP is going to take all this time to do background checks anyway...?


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#154 kingjames

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there.


Since when has no money slowed down spending in Illinois government? ;)

#155 thornstein

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:03 PM

So, in the interest of public safety, can they get an extension on implementation when they end up without a working system? Is there a threat of that. Whatever the reason, they aren't very good at dealing with deadlines.

#156 fubarud

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:03 PM


Is it any surprise that the organization that has been actively against the concept of concealed carry in Illinois is dragging their feet and screwing it up?

Who the heck thought it would be a good idea to involve the ISP in this process in the first place?


The term "dragging their feet" implies an intentional delay in implementing the law. We do not believe there is an intentional delay. Involving the ISP as the licensing agency was a combination of the IDPR refusing and the IDNR (dept. of natural resources) refusing and threatening to lobby against the law if involved.


I'm not so quick to give the ISP the benefit of the doubt. I can't think of one single instance where they haven't actively opposed the very idea of concealed carry. It makes no sense to me that they would suddenly attempt to implement this system in a manner that adheres to the spirit of the law.

How much of a background check is needed? Are they contacting their grade school teachers to investigate every person? Isn't there a national instant background check already in place? How do states with less money and resources, like Kentucky, manage to have a system that runs like a clock?
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#157 bobapunk

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:03 PM


Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there.


Since when has no money slowed down spending in Illinois government? ;)


I have no clue, particularly with the $30,000,000 - $45,000,000 in first year revenue stemming on an inplace and efficient system!

#158 supprmann

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:04 PM


Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there.


Since when has no money slowed down spending in Illinois government? ;)


It didn't stop or slow down the hideous looking doors they just installed to the tune of $677K

#159 Camar10

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

The FOID system is already in place (some what), i don't understand why the State cannot figure out a way to "springboard" off it? Your already have to have it to get your permit, so why not incorporate it somehow and save the state time and money.

Edited by Camar10, 16 September 2013 - 03:05 PM.


#160 Tvandermyde

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:06 PM



Valinda it's 2013 how long does it take to get an IT guy in and fix a tech problem?


Do you know and understand the problem of an antiquated system being used to integrate, network, and recognize modern day systems? Unless and until we have that capability, I believe we will have these glitches. Other than letting our legislators know how unacceptable this is, there is absolutely no earthly good to come of kvetching about it here on the forum - other than sharing our misery together. In this instant everything society some things - like government - still move at a snail's pace. It will get fixed, down the road, hopefully soon, but it will get fixed.


Just a suggestion: Why not have them migrate a copy of the antiquated system onto a new one with updated capability and test functionality parallel to the old one until the new one can have acceptance testing done on it?? Being that, it's a legacy system, I'm sure they know all its functional capabilities.......which can be passed along to the new engineers.


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#161 vezpa

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

Why are we even replying here? Our only salvation in this enormous fiasco will be Sheppard and orals on the 3rd. Without that case they would drag this process out indefinitely, with excuse after excuse and zero repercussions.

Thank God for Sheppard.


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Edited by vezpa, 16 September 2013 - 03:06 PM.

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#162 Indigo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:08 PM



Is it any surprise that the organization that has been actively against the concept of concealed carry in Illinois is dragging their feet and screwing it up?

Who the heck thought it would be a good idea to involve the ISP in this process in the first place?


The term "dragging their feet" implies an intentional delay in implementing the law. We do not believe there is an intentional delay. Involving the ISP as the licensing agency was a combination of the IDPR refusing and the IDNR (dept. of natural resources) refusing and threatening to lobby against the law if involved.


I love this woman's eternal optimism...

Someone, somewhere wants this process to be a slow and convoluted as possible. I do not believe it is the "boots on the ground" ISP rank and file, but whomever is responsible for giving them their marching orders and/or the resources to complete those orders. Todd also said much of the blame lies with the ISP Legal team. I think they can be held responsible for the terrible rule making, but not for the fact that the instructor approval system is moving at a dead snail's pace.


I just keep picturing footage from the old Keystone Kops films when contemplating the ISP trying to implement FCCL......
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#163 wtr100

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:09 PM

because the flux capacitor is on the fritz


I thought it was the disgronificator circuit
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#164 supprmann

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:11 PM




Do you know and understand the problem of an antiquated system being used to integrate, network, and recognize modern day systems? Unless and until we have that capability, I believe we will have these glitches. Other than letting our legislators know how unacceptable this is, there is absolutely no earthly good to come of kvetching about it here on the forum - other than sharing our misery together. In this instant everything society some things - like government - still move at a snail's pace. It will get fixed, down the road, hopefully soon, but it will get fixed.


Just a suggestion: Why not have them migrate a copy of the antiquated system onto a new one with updated capability and test functionality parallel to the old one until the new one can have acceptance testing done on it?? Being that, it's a legacy system, I'm sure they know all its functional capabilities.......which can be passed along to the new engineers.


because the flux capacitor is on the fritz


Oh.........now that just 'splains everything........*****facepalm*****

#165 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:14 PM

If I may suggest, actions speak louder than words. However, words can really screw you up, as you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Until / unless we move forward with some coordinated, strategic action, we should be more careful about the words we use. Slandering the ISP, which includes some well-intentioned, honest and hardworking individuals, will do us no good at all, except make them potentially more adversarial. Let's listen to Molly and give the benefit of the doubt to those at the ISP who are working hard, and keep it more civil. It's in our own best interests. Those elements who are willing to ignore court orders are NOT impressed or threatened by our harsh words, but it will discourage those who are giving it a good faith effort.
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#166 ragsbo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:37 PM

I DO NOT hold out much hope that on Oct 3 we will get any relief from this crap. They will have their dog and pony show, let everyone argue till they are blue in the face, retire to quarters to deliberate on it for months until they decide they don't have enough info and schedule more orals 3 months later. An all the time the powers that wanna be in this state continue to violate the citizens constitutional rights with out punishment.

ISP did not want this. ISP does not want to do this. ISP will find anyway they can to get rid of this. It will be a long long long time before we ever (if ever) see the first permit given out.

#167 tkroenlein

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:40 PM

and the countdown to October 3 begins......................

I know it's the orals only but I would suspect that the panel led by Judge Posner will make a very quick decision.

All of this turmoil/chaos/foot dragging incompetence will be noted by the Court in their decision


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#168 firepiper

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:52 PM

I DO NOT hold out much hope that on Oct 3 we will get any relief from this crap. They will have their dog and pony show, let everyone argue till they are blue in the face, retire to quarters to deliberate on it for months until they decide they don't have enough info and schedule more orals 3 months later. An all the time the powers that wanna be in this state continue to violate the citizens constitutional rights with out punishment.

ISP did not want this. ISP does not want to do this. ISP will find anyway they can to get rid of this. It will be a long long long time before we ever (if ever) see the first permit given out.


DING! DING! DING! -- WE HAVE A THREAD WINNER!!!!

#169 NRApistol

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:52 PM


Ok, Sen LaHood called me within 45 minutes of my email!

Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there. He also said that they are intentionally moving at a slow, deliberate pace, apparently to ensure that the background checks are accurate...? Why did we pay $55-60 for Livescan if the ISP is going to take all this time to do background checks anyway...?


HE LIKES YOU BEST ....




There is no background check required to approve curriculum, there are 23 people that have passed their background checks. Is it too much to ask that someone walk down the hallway to the office where we sent our curriculum and see if those 23 people checked all the boxes. I would think that could be done without a new computer system.

Edited by NRApistol, 16 September 2013 - 03:54 PM.


#170 TFC

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:59 PM

Save the emails, save the responses.
This just goes to show that the foot dragging and blatant incompetence is rampant.
I wouldn't be so sure about Oct. 3rd either. Illinois Supreme Court dropped their bombshell last week.
Relief may be coming, but not from where we would expect it.

Edited by TFC, 16 September 2013 - 04:09 PM.

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#171 WtJen

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:59 PM

NO! NO! NO, on adding anything else.

No more hoops, no more complications. Period. Licensees from FL sign the application saying they have read the law. That's all. Do not add another step, not another process, no more requirements. We live next door to Indiana where no training is required. Adding more hoops takes us farther away from our goal.


Amen

As a student, I don't want anymore hoops, tests, and plain BS to accompany this already tortuous process. If you want me to sign a statement as a student that I fully understand the legal aspects you have presented, I will be happy as a student to do so. Enough is enough already.

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#172 AJR

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:05 PM

Do you know and understand the problem of an antiquated system being used to integrate, network, and recognize modern day systems?


I do and based on my knowledge of the subject matter, it's not passing the sniff test...


It is the government. They probably have a Help Desk Ticket system that is back logged several weeks and guess who does not get the priority bump. :frantics:

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#173 AJR

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:06 PM

I just got a stall on the ISP site. Does that mean it's loaaaaddddinng.

Edited by AJR, 16 September 2013 - 04:06 PM.

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#174 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:08 PM

I just got a stall on the ISP site. Does that mean it's loaaaaddddinng.

No, it means you wore out your F5 key...... :ermm:
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#175 AJR

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

I just got a stall on the ISP site. Does that mean it's loaaaaddddinng.


Nope. NO LUCK...

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#176 AJR

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:10 PM


I just got a stall on the ISP site. Does that mean it's loaaaaddddinng.

No, it means you wore out your F5 key...... :ermm:

I think I need a new keyboard after that one.

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#177 GT1

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:10 PM

Why are we even replying here?




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#178 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:18 PM

The FOID system is already in place (some what), i don't understand why the State cannot figure out a way to "springboard" off it? Your already have to have it to get your permit, so why not incorporate it somehow and save the state time and money.

Because that would make entirely too much sense

The ISP runs checks against the FOID database on a daily basis to catch anyone who should have their FOID revoked. So because they essentially run a background check on each and every one of us every single day, and a FOID is a prerequisite for a FCCL why would it be necessary to run additional background checks?

#179 chip

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:20 PM





Just a suggestion: Why not have them migrate a copy of the antiquated system onto a new one with updated capability and test functionality parallel to the old one until the new one can have acceptance testing done on it?? Being that, it's a legacy system, I'm sure they know all its functional capabilities.......which can be passed along to the new engineers.


because the flux capacitor is on the fritz


Will someone please track down "the fritz" and get the flux capacitor back to where it belongs!
I can't believe there's been ZERO instructor approvals since Wednesday when Larry was approved 4 times.

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#180 borgranta

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:22 PM

[quote/]
Ok, Sen LaHood called me within 45 minutes of my email!

Although he shares our frustration, he reiterated that the state has no money to implement this and therefore the manpower and technology to move at an acceptable pace is simply not there. He also said that they are intentionally moving at a slow, deliberate pace, apparently to ensure that the background checks are accurate...? Why did we pay $55-60 for Livescan if the ISP is going to take all this time to do background checks anyway...?
[/quote]They have no money and yet they commited $26 Million dollars to an out of state vendor when an in state vender could have made a custom solution for less if given the opportunity to bid. I did not know that ILLINOIS regarded that $26 Million as no money.
The 2nd amendment was intended not only for protecting against tyranny but also enforcing and protecting the rule of law and the sovereignty of the states and the country as a whole which includes repelling invasions. If the citizens were not disarmed in New Orleans after Katrina than the lawlessnes would have been either reduced or eliminated.