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#121 Elmer Fudd

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:47 PM

Just to make the earlier poster feel better...I built out a signature block :frantics:

The apparent result of today election is an unmitigated disaster for this country. It appears that the White House is going to be occupied by an anti-semite, racist bigot that the potential to do incredible damage to our way of life. The cause of the outcome seems to be a simmering anger coming from an element with the population that is expressing what we can only describe as a "whitelash". It doesn't bode well for people of color, or the vulnerable.

The country is damaged, with wounds inflicted by both the left leaning element within the Democratic Party, there is substantial disagreement within elements in the GOP, our elective process has been interfered with by a quasi-terrorist group [WikiLeaks] and a foreign power[the Russians]. Its clear that many of the Trump supporters lack a world view and don't fully grasp the consequences of the outcome of this election.

Trump is going to discover very quickly that the skills required to win the Presidency are vastly different from those that are required to govern. Starting with 20 million individuals who have their health insurance with Obamacare, African American and Hispanic populations that feel they were victims of Voter Suppression.

It will be very telling to see if the President-elect make an effort to adopt the agenda that Paul Ryan has laid out which was certainly centrist, or will decide to pursue his hair brained ideas and wreck havoc with our capital markets, push us into a recession or depression and continue his toxic spew to further divide the country.

Those of us that actually understand how our government is supposed to function for the people are going to be watching. Either he is going to attempt to LISTEN to those from all sides that would offer him guidance in taking on the responsibilities that he is likely to assume, or he is going to continue to be captive to his ego and lay waste to our way of life.

The coming months are going to quickly demonstrate to us whether there is going to be an attempt to heal anything and unite the country, or if we are going face the most divisive period in our history since the civil war.

Personally, I am deeply disappointed and frustrated at the prospect of what the outcome of this election will bring. Those of us with the skills and understanding to affect the process aren't going to merely accept a deeply flawed solution....let's hope he starts listening to and engaging competent advisors to govern.

 


#122 pdpsc

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:53 PM

Just to make the earlier poster feel better...I built out a signature block :frantics:


Whew, I got all the way to the end before I saw that you have a backup Glock for all those 1911s...I kid

Edited by pdpsc, 07 September 2013 - 09:57 PM.

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#123 Elmer Fudd

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 10:00 PM

Just to make the earlier poster feel better...I built out a signature block :frantics:


Whew, I got all the way to the end before I saw that you have a backup Glock for all those 1911s...I kid


NO problem....I feel more adequate now that I am properly adorned...but the simple point is...how long one belongs to a particular forum, post count, etc. aren't the key....its really important that each of us does what we can within our ability and time constraints to make sure the 2A survives....and my sense is that just about everyone here shares that concern.

The apparent result of today election is an unmitigated disaster for this country. It appears that the White House is going to be occupied by an anti-semite, racist bigot that the potential to do incredible damage to our way of life. The cause of the outcome seems to be a simmering anger coming from an element with the population that is expressing what we can only describe as a "whitelash". It doesn't bode well for people of color, or the vulnerable.

The country is damaged, with wounds inflicted by both the left leaning element within the Democratic Party, there is substantial disagreement within elements in the GOP, our elective process has been interfered with by a quasi-terrorist group [WikiLeaks] and a foreign power[the Russians]. Its clear that many of the Trump supporters lack a world view and don't fully grasp the consequences of the outcome of this election.

Trump is going to discover very quickly that the skills required to win the Presidency are vastly different from those that are required to govern. Starting with 20 million individuals who have their health insurance with Obamacare, African American and Hispanic populations that feel they were victims of Voter Suppression.

It will be very telling to see if the President-elect make an effort to adopt the agenda that Paul Ryan has laid out which was certainly centrist, or will decide to pursue his hair brained ideas and wreck havoc with our capital markets, push us into a recession or depression and continue his toxic spew to further divide the country.

Those of us that actually understand how our government is supposed to function for the people are going to be watching. Either he is going to attempt to LISTEN to those from all sides that would offer him guidance in taking on the responsibilities that he is likely to assume, or he is going to continue to be captive to his ego and lay waste to our way of life.

The coming months are going to quickly demonstrate to us whether there is going to be an attempt to heal anything and unite the country, or if we are going face the most divisive period in our history since the civil war.

Personally, I am deeply disappointed and frustrated at the prospect of what the outcome of this election will bring. Those of us with the skills and understanding to affect the process aren't going to merely accept a deeply flawed solution....let's hope he starts listening to and engaging competent advisors to govern.

 


#124 JPD158

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:02 PM

I'm LEO but didn't even mention it in the app. Submitted mine Sunday night after getting printed. We'll see how long it takes. Congrats to those already approved.

#125 AdamRos19

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

So if I understand correctly, you are all saying that the curriculum approval form submitted with the application was not the same as curriculum approval for CCL courses? I thought that was the point of it? If not then how do they go about approving said curriculum (anyone have experience of this possibly from other states?)

#126 maxcapp

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:09 AM

So if I understand correctly, you are all saying that the curriculum approval form submitted with the application was not the same as curriculum approval for CCL courses? I thought that was the point of it? If not then how do they go about approving said curriculum (anyone have experience of this possibly from other states?)


It is the same. Just fill out what is on the ISP site and mail it.
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#127 AdamRos19

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:41 AM

So if I understand correctly, you are all saying that the curriculum approval form submitted with the application was not the same as curriculum approval for CCL courses? I thought that was the point of it? If not then how do they go about approving said curriculum (anyone have experience of this possibly from other states?)


It is the same. Just fill out what is on the ISP site and mail it.


That's the way I understood it but then why are soapy folks saying "even if the instructor is approved ISP still hasn't approved curriculum"?

#128 chevsuz12

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:53 AM

So if I understand correctly, you are all saying that the curriculum approval form submitted with the application was not the same as curriculum approval for CCL courses? I thought that was the point of it? If not then how do they go about approving said curriculum (anyone have experience of this possibly from other states?)


It is the same. Just fill out what is on the ISP site and mail it.


That's the way I understood it but then why are soapy folks saying "even if the instructor is approved ISP still hasn't approved curriculum"?

I plan to call ISP Monday to verify that I am good to go. I also am curious if certified instructors will receive additional credentials (certificate, some type of ID card, etc.) or is just seeing your name on the ISP website good enough? It seems to me, the further we get in this process, the more questions we have.

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#129 Federal Farmer

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:54 AM

Yeah, it seems to me that the ISP is simply counting on instructors' affidavits that they are teaching a curriculum that meets their standard. Therefore, approved instructors who have signed the curriculum affidavit are good to go.

I'm hoping they tweak their standards so that they are reasonable. We aren't signing it as it isn't teachable, in our opinion. Several questions remain open...one such being what the heck they mean by "public storage".

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#130 leaddog

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:39 AM

Wow! What a discussion. If they go alphabetically, I am a W in a W county, so it will be 2515 before they get to me. I got printed Friday AM, submitted the electronic stuff on Fri evening and sent paper stuff Sat AM Express mail. I wonder how big the pile is that they are going through?
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#131 bobapunk

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:57 AM

So if I understand correctly, you are all saying that the curriculum approval form submitted with the application was not the same as curriculum approval for CCL courses? I thought that was the point of it? If not then how do they go about approving said curriculum (anyone have experience of this possibly from other states?)


It is the same. Just fill out what is on the ISP site and mail it.


That's the way I understood it but then why are soapy folks saying "even if the instructor is approved ISP still hasn't approved curriculum"?


Do you see a list of approved curricula on the ISP's website? I don't...

#132 bobapunk

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:02 AM

I plan to call ISP Monday to verify that I am good to go. I also am curious if certified instructors will receive additional credentials (certificate, some type of ID card, etc.) or is just seeing your name on the ISP website good enough? It seems to me, the further we get in this process, the more questions we have.


You have to get an ID# so you can fill out the "Department's Concealed Carry Firearms Training Certification form".

You also need the ID# for the approved curriculum that you taught to fill out the form.

c) On the Certitication form, the Instructor shall:
1) certify that the applicant successfully completed a 16 hour training course,
an 8 hour training course, or a 3 hour renewal training course; and
2) provide the unique identification number assigned by the Department to
the approved curriculum and the Instructor.



#133 bobapunk

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

Wow! What a discussion. If they go alphabetically, I am a W in a W county, so it will be 2515 before they get to me. I got printed Friday AM, submitted the electronic stuff on Fri evening and sent paper stuff Sat AM Express mail. I wonder how big the pile is that they are going through?


I do not think they are going alphabetically... There is already an instructor in Kane Co. There are many counties A-J and I have a difficult time believing that there are no instructor applicants in those counties. I think First come = First Served is much more likely with the applicants batched by what day their paperwork got to the PO box.

#134 TimGiblin

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:06 AM

Just curious, how many of you "approved instructors" were approved using only the NRA Basic Pistol credentials?

I'm wondering if any were. If so cool. If not rethinking is in order.

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable


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#135 ming

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:14 AM

Just curious, how many of you "approved instructors" were approved using only the NRA Basic Pistol credentials?

I'm wondering if any were. If so cool. If not rethinking is in order.

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable


At least one instructor was approved using only the NRA Pistol Instructor credentials. I'm guessing we will see a bunch of instructors added to the list Monday when ISP gets back to work on it .

Edited by ming, 08 September 2013 - 10:19 AM.

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#136 bmyers

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

I see the link at the being of this post, but how are those that go straight to ISP website supposed to find the link? I looked at the site map and carry page and don't see a link to the instructor search page.

#137 RANDY

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:08 PM

ISP website, left side, firearms, concealed carry, concealed carry instructor search.

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#138 bmyers

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:30 PM

ISP website, left side, firearms, concealed carry, concealed carry instructor search.


Thank you!

#139 gangrel

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:58 PM

Just curious, how many of you "approved instructors" were approved using only the NRA Basic Pistol credentials?

I'm wondering if any were. If so cool. If not rethinking is in order.

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable


PPOtH Instructor here, so one down...can't speak for the other 6...

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#140 Double P

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:26 PM

Still none for Sangamon county.

#141 Mr. Fife

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:37 PM

Yeah, it seems to me that the ISP is simply counting on instructors' affidavits that they are teaching a curriculum that meets their standard. Therefore, approved instructors who have signed the curriculum affidavit are good to go.


Gangrel was approved without sending the curriculum affadavit thing, unless we are talking about different affadavits

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#142 Mr. Fife

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:39 PM

Just curious, how many of you "approved instructors" were approved using only the NRA Basic Pistol credentials?

I'm wondering if any were. If so cool. If not rethinking is in order.

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable


PPOtH Instructor here, so one down...can't speak for the other 6...


I guess we'll have to watch and see. Todd and Molly said BP was good to go.

Edited by Mr. Fife, 08 September 2013 - 08:39 PM.

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#143 Craigcelia

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:11 PM

So where do we find what is acceptable as prior training?


You can't. Still waiting for ISP which I am hesitant in believing they will post anything at this point.

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#144 gangrel

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:27 PM

PPOtH Instructor here, so one down...can't speak for the other 6...


I guess we'll have to watch and see. Todd and Molly said BP was good to go.


I have heard that too. Only pointing out that I can't speak from experience..

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#145 sctman800

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:38 AM

So where do we find what is acceptable as prior training?


You can't. Still waiting for ISP which I am hesitant in believing they will post anything at this point.

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That is the way I am seeing it also. The ISP now have approved a few instructors so they have met the mandatory date for that. Now was there a mandatory date they have to clarify what the acceptable grandfathered training will be? They will "slow walk" this to death from old age. Jim.
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#146 bobapunk

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:37 AM

So where do we find what is acceptable as prior training?


You can't. Still waiting for ISP which I am hesitant in believing they will post anything at this point.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


I am beginning to wonder the same thing... I find it hard to believe that with the way they have tried to micromanage everything else, they would leave that amount of control in the instructors hands?

It almost feels like a trap...

#147 Xwing

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:03 AM

Very :cool: that they finally started approving instructors (although slowly). I expect this to be a very long list by the end of this week. Hopefully instructors will start planning and publishing class times here (+availability and cost). Should be fun. :)

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#148 w00dc4ip

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:45 AM

Curious if Richard Lucas is going to regret using his Loyola University Chicago email address for this. Anybody know him around here?
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#149 GUNS&LAWYERS

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

So where do we find what is acceptable as prior training?


You can't. Still waiting for ISP which I am hesitant in believing they will post anything at this point.

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That is the way I am seeing it also. The ISP now have approved a few instructors so they have met the mandatory date for that. Now was there a mandatory date they have to clarify what the acceptable grandfathered training will be? They will "slow walk" this to death from old age. Jim.


The mandatory date for posting courses is the same as instructors, 60 days. Section 75, paragraph a...

"Within 60 days of the effective date of this Act, the Department shall begin approval of firearm training courses and shall make a list of approved courses available on the Department's website.

A normal reading of this would mean that they were required to begin approving courses and post at least one of those courses within 60 days...just like they did with instructors.

But, that is just what the law says...they don't need to follow no stinking law.
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#150 Beezil

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:39 AM

Yeah, it seems to me that the ISP is simply counting on instructors' affidavits that they are teaching a curriculum that meets their standard. Therefore, approved instructors who have signed the curriculum affidavit are good to go.

I'm hoping they tweak their standards so that they are reasonable. We aren't signing it as it isn't teachable, in our opinion. Several questions remain open...one such being what the heck they mean by "public storage".


you gotta sign it to find out what it is.....

pelosi style.

Who is John Galt?