Jump to content


Photo

B-27 Target


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
40 replies to this topic

#1 boog

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,657 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 08

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

Does anyone have a guess as what the size the ISP will come up with. B-27 come in all sizes. I am guessing 23" x 35"
Boog

CarrySafely.com

Illinois Certified Concealed Carry Instructor


#2 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

I was thinking 24" x 45"
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#3 THE KING

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,533 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 09

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

Hey Boog

I always have a guess, I'll go with CountZero on this one. 24" x 45"

Well, that's what I bought at WalMart anyway.

KINGS FCCL INSTRUCTION, INC.

Larry Kaitschuck

Cell: 815-739-9616

E-Mail: clubkchuck@sbcglobal.net


NRA Member
ISRA Member
NRA Certified Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
ISP Certified Illinois Conceal Carry Instructor
Professional Firefighter / Paramedic

#4 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:43 PM

I thought the most common B27 target was the NRA 50 yard police pistol target and that is 45" from top to bottom. I don't think it matters much if you have white to the sides of the target. The B27 target with no white to the left or right of the target is 24" wide, the B27 with some white paper to the left and right of the silhouette is 35" across.

I really don't see the need for extra paper, so I would think the 24" x 45" would be the target.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#5 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:47 PM

There is no trademark on "B27" so any target maker can call their targets that, and they don't have to adhere to standard sizes but I think 23" x 35 is actually 22.5" x 34.5 and it is sometimes referred to as the B-27E.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#6 ragsbo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 05

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

Has anyone heard how they will score the target? Will they score it by the rings (X,10,9,8,7 etc) or will any bullet in the black count full score?

#7 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

The main silhouette profile and size is the same across the different paper sizes or at least VERY similar, the only difference is the amount of border and some extended silhouette below the waist line on the 'full length' targets...

I personally think they will leave range qualification and specific target choice up to the instructor simply based on the generic B27 nomenclature written in the law...

Edited by RockerXX, 15 July 2013 - 03:54 PM.

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#8 GlockShooter

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,160 posts
  • Joined: 12-March 05

Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

Has anyone heard how they will score the target? Will they score it by the rings (X,10,9,8,7 etc) or will any bullet in the black count full score?

From what I know, you just need to be in the black.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.
abolt243


#9 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

The way I read the bill - you just have to hit the TARGET.

I think that just means in the black. There are no provisions for scoring and no scores mentioned - just percentage of hits.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#10 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

The main silhouette profile and size is the same across the different paper sizes or at least VERY similar, the only difference is the amount of border and some extended silhouette below the waist line on the 'full length' targets...


I called Pistoleer.com and talked to a guy about the different overall sizes of "B-27" targets. He put the 24" B-27 target over the 35" B-27 target and at least for the ones they sell - the silhouette portion was exactly the same size.

http://www.pistoleer...ets/silhouette/

Edited by C0untZer0, 18 July 2013 - 09:08 AM.

‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#11 Craigcelia

    Country Music Anyone?

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 894 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 09

Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:59 PM

Greg,

I bought the NRA Law Enforcement B27 silhouette which is 27 x 45. Huge target by the way. I hope ISP is approving that type.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Craig

ISRA Board of Directors/Webteam
NRA / ISRA Life Member
NRA Instructor Disciplines: Pistol/CRSO/RTBAV/PPITH/PPOTH/LE Pistol
Utah CCW / IL Registered Firearms Instructor /
ISP Approved CCL Instructor
 


#12 bobapunk

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,348 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 09

Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:45 AM

I thought all B-27s were the same size, just different colors...

There are 25 yard silhouettes, but I think those are called B-28s...

#13 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:27 AM

There is an official NRA B-27 Law Enforcement Target. While the dimensions aren't listed in this booklet - you can find it here:

http://le.nra.org/do...ns/rulebook.pdf

Anyone can make a target and call it B-27, but only manufacturers licensed by the NRA can put the NRA Official
Competition target seal on their targets.

From what I can see of those B-27 targets that have the NRA seal on them they are most often 24 x 45 but I measured my targets made by National Target Co, and they have the NRA official seal. Measuring across the target along the numbers and through the X, the black silhouette portion is 20.75" wide. Measuring the black silhouette portion from the top of the head to the bottom the black portion is 42.5" tall.

I have a call in to the NRA Law Enforcement Competitions Department to confirm the official NRA B-27 dimension specifications.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#14 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

As we saw in previous proposed bills, I doubt you will see an 'endorsement' or 'requirement' to use an NRA approved target...

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#15 BobPistol

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,663 posts
  • Joined: 24-February 13

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:14 AM

It will be 1 inch by 2 inches. If any of it is left after your 30 shots, you failed :)
The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#16 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

I could easily do that with my Rohrbaugh R9 using Blazzer Brass 147gr FMJ

The bullets keyhole like crazy out of that short barrel, I'd probably only need 4 shots
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#17 bobapunk

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,348 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 09

Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

Here you go: http://www.opticspla...rget-40727.html

Edited by bobapunk, 16 July 2013 - 02:42 PM.


#18 Lou

    Resident Old Guy

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 10,813 posts
  • Joined: 18-May 04

Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:21 AM

http://www.letargets...tem=B-27S BLACK


I've used this place and they ae very good. There are multiple B-27 targets but this one is the "standard" one, if such a thing exists.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -  George Orwell

A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#19 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,997 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:07 AM

The National Criminal Justice Association has specifications for what they call a B-27 target, it is a 24" x 45" target but it looks different from the plain black silhouette:

B27(NCJA).gif


To my knowledge, the only other organization that actually has specifications for what constitutes a B-27 target in the NRA. The NRA Law Enforcement Competitions Department has a specification for a "B-27 Law Enforcement Target"

NRA official B27.jpg

This target from Midway has the NRA seal in the lower left.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#20 bornhunter04

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 633 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 11

Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:56 AM

These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple those up and and shoot at them until you can keep all your shots on them. I practice shooting 3x5 notecards @ 30 yards, now that's a challenge! But it'll let you know if your doing something wrong at that distance.

Keeping all shots during the test in the 9 ring and under should be easy, if not, your definitely doing something wrong, or you need different ammo.

If you do use the b27 target to practice with, you can make it last longer by shooting for specific numbers, they make a heck of a good aiming point. Also, for a challenge take the target out to 25-50 yards and shoot for the head area on the target.
ITWTC #308

#21 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:01 AM

These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple


If the goal is to simply hit a B27 to qualify you could practice with sheets of poster paper at 18" x 24" and still have a margin of error...

I understand the appeal of shooting at the real target (its the reason I went and got some) but it's hardly necessary for practice...

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#22 ragsbo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 05

Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:41 AM

A cheap paper plate makes a great target that is about the right size for the "kill zone" of a person. If you can't but rounds in a paper plate at 5/7/10 yards then you need help! (especially when there isn't a time limit). Even a piece of note book paper would suffice!

#23 bornhunter04

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 633 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 11

Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:45 AM


These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple


If the goal is to simply hit a B27 to qualify you could practice with sheets of poster paper at 18" x 24" and still have a margin of error...

I understand the appeal of shooting at the real target (its the reason I went and got some) but it's hardly necessary for practice...


Yeah i understand the appeal of that, guess it's why i have a box of IDPA targets to shoot at with pistol and rifle :) BTW, they make great target backers for your standard paper targets!

I prefer to shoot at small targets, I've got a bunch of 3" ar500 steel triangles coming I'll be using for pistol practice.
ITWTC #308

#24 bigdiogi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 13

Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:43 AM



These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple


If the goal is to simply hit a B27 to qualify you could practice with sheets of poster paper at 18" x 24" and still have a margin of error...

I understand the appeal of shooting at the real target (its the reason I went and got some) but it's hardly necessary for practice...


Yeah i understand the appeal of that, guess it's why i have a box of IDPA targets to shoot at with pistol and rifle :) BTW, they make great target backers for your standard paper targets!

I prefer to shoot at small targets, I've got a bunch of 3" ar500 steel triangles coming I'll be using for pistol practice.


A lot of you guys, if not most, are instructors, right? Why are you concerned about practicing? If I read the law right, when we are approved as instructors, we automatically qualify for a CC permit. In fact it says you must have a permit to be an instructor. But there is no one qualified to teach the classes, till instructors are approved!!

Bit of a catch 22 written into the law there I believe. But I sure haven't come across the section that states the process for training or qualifying instructors. Just says ISP will approve or disapprove you. And there is no provision for multi-tiered levels of instructors, a LEO firearms instructor won't be designated to train a bunch of NRA certified instructors, for instance.

Now if you just want to know what you are requiring of your students, or you want to show off to the class, that's something else. But I don't see where we need to qualify.

“The Second Amendment is the only veto held by the people.”

–”Sammy” on TTAG


Real Gun Control
Bruce Badger
bruce@guncontroltraining.com

www.guncontroltraining.com
309.824.0724

NRA Basic Pistol Instructor

Illinois Certified CCL instructor

All Round Good Guy

Bloomington and Central Illinois


#25 bobapunk

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,348 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 09

Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:33 PM

I do not believe there is going to be any "instructor training". The ISP will just approve you based on the credentials you already have.

#26 wtr100

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 4,500 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 09

Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:54 PM

I do not believe there is going to be any "instructor training". The ISP will just approve you based on the credentials you already have.


Mr Trust but verify here but a personal friend in the LE business seems to think the ISP wants the approval of instructors and courses to go as smoothly as possible
Have your musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, 60 rounds powder and ball and be ready to march at a minute's warning

ISRA Life Member
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun
NRA Designated Range Safety Officer
ISP Approved Concelaed Carry Instructor

#27 bobapunk

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,348 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 09

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:28 AM

Yeah, and I have an instructor buddy who has a buddy that he served with in the sand-box who is now with the ISP, ISP buddy said that they are doing a 32-40 class in september to train CCW instructors... I think that is misinformation, but what the heck do I know...

#28 solareclipse2

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: 07-January 13

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:32 AM

About the B-27 target, I seem to recall someone on this forum posting a link to some extremely inexpensive B-27 targets online. I wanna say they were like 49 cents or something? Maybe I'm wrong but if someone does know, I'd appreciate the link.
I WILL LOSE EVERY ARGUMENT FROM NOW ON, I WILL WALK AWAY FROM EVERY FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION, I WILL TAKE THE HIGH ROAD.

#29 Hooch

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 93 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 11

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:33 AM

When I applied for my Florida permit, I took the NRA first steps course. Will this count for any hours off the Illinois classroom requirement? Anyone?

#30 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:37 AM

About the B-27 target, I seem to recall someone on this forum posting a link to some extremely inexpensive B-27 targets online. I wanna say they were like 49 cents or something? Maybe I'm wrong but if someone does know, I'd appreciate the link.


You can get a 10 pack at Walmart for $10, no shipping no wait...

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!