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#1 Bowfisher

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:21 PM

I was a meeting last week and a retired LEO with 30 years experience said that if you are going to CCW you had better check into and get some kind of CCW insurance. What happens if you shoot a BG and his family sues you or you hit an innocent bystander in a shoot out trying to protect yourself or family? Has anyone got CCW insurance or checked it out. Are you going to CCW without it or travel in other states without it? How much is it? Who sells it? School me.

#2 WindyCityGuy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:36 PM

There is no such thing.
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#3 Capt_Destro

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:38 PM

It's called having a lawyer. Doesn't Ayoob have some kind of program like that though?

Edit: http://www.armedciti...rg/defense-fund

I think this is it.

Edited by Capt_Destro, 07 July 2013 - 09:38 PM.

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#4 pdpsc

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

The NRA has a product: http://www.locktonri...ins/defense.htm
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#5 cm.stites

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

I was a meeting last week and a retired LEO with 30 years experience said that if you are going to CCW you had better check into and get some kind of CCW insurance. What happens if you shoot a BG and his family sues you or you hit an innocent bystander in a shoot out trying to protect yourself or family? Has anyone got CCW insurance or checked it out. Are you going to CCW without it or travel in other states without it? How much is it? Who sells it? School me.

theres only self defense insurance that can be had thru a few places and it only pays your lawyers fees.

#6 Spclpps

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:19 PM

Doesn't the liability portion of your homeowners insurance cover it? Consider uping your liability limits and maybe purchasing an umbrella policy. Can one ever have enough liability coverage?
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#7 SFC Stu

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:43 PM

USCCA has a policy.

#8 BobPistol

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:24 PM

What did they mean by "CCW insurance"? What kind of coverage are they talking about?

Are they talking about self-defense insurance which pays the lawyer's fees for criminal and civil defenses? There are some companies who sell this.

Are they talking about liability insurance which covers the judgments that come from civil lawsuits against you? This is generally excluded from many liability policies.
The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#9 BadWaterBill

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:28 AM

After seeing what happened to G Z I am seriously debating if I can afford a CCW. Living in Crook Co I can easily see the last items I own sold at auction to pay just a small portion of my legal bills.

After that I will have to live in a tent somewhere (if that wasn't auctioned as well) for the rest of my life.

Yes it does get scary particularly if you are a senior citizen.

#10 Ccc2003

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:40 AM

The NRA has this insurance,It pays legal fees only.you can get $10,000.00 or 100,000.00 to pay your legal fees only .Not a judgement against you for losing you case.

#11 BadWaterBill

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:54 AM

I wonder what the total bill will be for the G Z case?

Well beyond the $100,000 max I am sure.

#12 Drylok

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:04 AM

Insurance for what? Does anyone who has a CCW now have insurance?
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#13 tkroenlein

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:10 AM

Insurance for what? Does anyone who has a CCW now have insurance?


Nope. :)
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#14 mobrules

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:10 AM

Doesn't the liability portion of your homeowners insurance cover it? Consider uping your liability limits and maybe purchasing an umbrella policy. Can one ever have enough liability coverage?

my family has a small insurance agency. I will talk to someone today and post what I find out.

Edited by mobrules, 08 July 2013 - 06:11 AM.


#15 mauserme

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:28 AM

Doesn't the liability portion of your homeowners insurance cover it? Consider uping your liability limits and maybe purchasing an umbrella policy. Can one ever have enough liability coverage?


Liability insurance usually excludes coverage for intentional acts. Some policies carve out an exception for acts of self defense, so you need to read the language in your own policy to see what it says.
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#16 njr

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:49 AM

When I got my utah permit our instructor advised us to get serious coverage and to look for certain verbiage which I can't recall right now. I called my insurance agent who also has a ccw. He explained what they had, and the required language was there so I took out a $2 million personal liability policy. It costs me just under $500 a year.

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#17 joybulb

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:42 AM

When I got my utah permit our instructor advised us to get serious coverage and to look for certain verbiage which I can't recall right now. I called my insurance agent who also has a ccw. He explained what they had, and the required language was there so I took out a $2 million personal liability policy. It costs me just under $500 a year.

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Can you post the "required verbiage" that is within that policy?
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#18 Livewire18

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:58 AM

The NRA has this insurance,It pays legal fees only.you can get $10,000.00 or 100,000.00 to pay your legal fees only .Not a judgement against you for losing you case.


+1 on this. My wife and I are discussing this also. I think its about $165 a year if I read it correctly. I could be wrong though.

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#19 vezpa

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:08 AM

After seeing what happened to G Z I am seriously debating if I can afford a CCW. Living in Crook Co I can easily see the last items I own sold at auction to pay just a small portion of my legal bills.

After that I will have to live in a tent somewhere (if that wasn't auctioned as well) for the rest of my life.

Yes it does get scary particularly if you are a senior citizen.


If it comes down to a tent because this happens to you, I have a huge basement.
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Edited by vezpa, 08 July 2013 - 10:10 AM.

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#20 Grey Beret

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:28 AM


After seeing what happened to G Z I am seriously debating if I can afford a CCW. Living in Crook Co I can easily see the last items I own sold at auction to pay just a small portion of my legal bills.

After that I will have to live in a tent somewhere (if that wasn't auctioned as well) for the rest of my life.

Yes it does get scary particularly if you are a senior citizen.


If it comes down to a tent because this happens to you, I have a huge basement.
.

That is the true offer of a friend. Sometime ago a friend of mine found himself in a situation in which he actually lost everything. It can happen. He never took me up on it, but I told him that as long as I had food and roof, he would too.

#21 brianj

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

There is some good news, though. See http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=19429 (amazingly enough, the statute is almost written in plain English). For all the grief the ILGA and Chicago give us over CCW, the Use of Force statutes actually make sense and offer some protection. The Readers' Digest Condensed Version (not really needed, as the statutes are also fairly brief) says that, as long as the use of force was justifiable, you cannot be sued by the aggressor (or his/her estate) for defending yourself.

Now, that's not going to prevent a Travon Martin/George Zimmerman situation (where the state is determined to railroad the defender at all costs). You'll still need some level of insurance to pay for the lawyers (that's where the USCCA/NRA type insurances come in). I seem to remember on the Law of Self Defense blog (in reference to commentary about the Zimmerman case) that Ohio is currently the only state in the US where the defendant has to prove an affirmative claim of self defense. This means that, in Illinois, if you grievously injure or kill someone and claim self defense, the State of Illinois has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were not just defending yourself.

Having said all that, I'd still talk to a lawyer about all of this (particularly once 183 goes into effect tomorrow), and map out a legal strategy with a 2A-friendly lawyer.

Brian

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#22 BadWaterBill

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:11 AM



After seeing what happened to G Z I am seriously debating if I can afford a CCW. Living in Crook Co I can easily see the last items I own sold at auction to pay just a small portion of my legal bills.

After that I will have to live in a tent somewhere (if that wasn't auctioned as well) for the rest of my life.

Yes it does get scary particularly if you are a senior citizen.


If it comes down to a tent because this happens to you, I have a huge basement.
.

That is the true offer of a friend. Sometime ago a friend of mine found himself in a situation in which he actually lost everything. It can happen. He never took me up on it, but I told him that as long as I had food and roof, he would too.


I do appreciate the offer,honest I do. I do have a friend in Indiana who keeps telling me to take what I really want out of my house,turn the rest over to an auction house and move in with him and his wife of 50 years. They had 6 girls so lots of room and up to a 300 yard range in the back yard.

#23 MSD

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

Doesn't the liability portion of your homeowners insurance cover it? Consider uping your liability limits and maybe purchasing an umbrella policy. Can one ever have enough liability coverage?


I called my homeowners insurance and they in fact cover ccw carriers for both defense and liability for negligent discharge etc. They obviously will not cover malfeasance. It seems several big name insurers will cover this liability under the homeowner's policy. Also, you may be able to purchase an umbrella policy that covers it. It would not be a specific CCW coverage, but coverage for all liability's, including CCW related liabilities.

#24 BadWaterBill

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

IIRC a homeowners policy paid in full for all of Slick Willies Impeachment bills.

Guess he still had a small apartment back home.

#25 Indigo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

BuckeyeFirearms.org has a connection to Second Call: http://www.secondcal...ans-and-pricing
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#26 DoverGunner

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:21 PM

If all those that are so worried about legal ramifications there is a simple solution. DON'T CARRY

#27 BobPistol

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:27 PM

If all those that are so worried about legal ramifications there is a simple solution. DON'T CARRY


Yeah, don't carry. You'll have other bills (hospital, funeral....) to deal with :)
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#28 mcjon77

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:43 PM

I'm definitely going to pick up that NRA insurance. Paying for my legal costs is my primary concern. If I get convicted, I will be less worried about the criminal or his next of kin suing me for money I don't have than I will be with becoming somebody's wife in prison.

However, if I am NOT charged or convicted, while Illinois law protects me from suits by the criminal or his family, it DOES NOT protect me from any suits resulting from a stray bullet damaging someone else's property or injuring/killing an innocent bystander. I wonder if the NRA insurance covers that.

#29 njr

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:09 PM

Sorry not to get back to you sooner. I work swing shift and sleep in two shifts, so some things fall through the cracks. I don't have my notes in front of me but I'll look for them this week and try to get back to you. Someone else might know the answer in the meantime. My instructor was Michael Bender from Wisconsin and I read that a lot of his info synched with Masaad Ayoob. I know that at least one participant on this list has taken Ayoob's classes, so maybe that person would also recall the verbiage.




When I got my utah permit our instructor advised us to get serious coverage and to look for certain verbiage which I can't recall right now. I called my insurance agent who also has a ccw. He explained what they had, and the required language was there so I took out a $2 million personal liability policy. It costs me just under $500 a year.

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Can you post the "required verbiage" that is within that policy?



#30 njr

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

Okay, I found my course packet from Personal Protection Academy, ppa-wi.com. Of course it was in the third,most accessible location checked.

1. Get liability rider or umbrella plan.

2. Exclusions:

Coverage does not apply to an act committed with intent to cause bodily injury or damage.

Exclusion does not apply to bodily injury or property damage resulting from use of reasonable force to protect persons or property.

Look for both exclusions in the fine print. Tell your underwriter that you need self defense insurance.

I got my policy through State Farm for my Utah permit five years ago. I live in Chicago.

Hope this helps.

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