25 replies to this topic

[Bud]

https://www.youtube....h?v=-g0sGT14u-k

[ming]

This stunned me when I first saw it.  I thought I must be hearing incorrectly.  I don't know what his ultimate motive is, but it was still shocking to me.

[Dave D]

ming, on 26 May 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

.  I don't know what his ultimate motive is, but it was still shocking to me.

Its not us, lol

[Jim Smyth]

I couldn't belive it myself. Just hopeing we don't get broadsided further down the road.

[KarlJ]

That was by far the most unpredictable part of 2193

[Elderberry]

I wonder how much it costs the taxpayers for him to peal off those 11 votes..??

[BillR]

Has ANY politician ever told the truth....

[Bud]

That was really the grand announcement, "my little girl is going to be Governor!"

[Elderberry]

But what if...???   What if the man was sincere...?  What if all the reputable national polls and all the pro-gun victories during that same 20 year period he spoke of actually convinced the consummate politician that he really DID need to change...???  

Don't give me all the "impossible" and "NO WAY" answers -- I already know them -- but this is just hypothetical anyway....     But just think about it and tell me how you would like to have the Speaker, the leader of the democrat party in Illinois, on your side....???

Can you spell "death of the republican party"...???

[RockerXX]

And with that I'm far from convinced that if HB183 is sent back to him with a lions share of 'his' compromise to the pro-gun side but also now includes the restoration of some of his long anti-gun positions that he won't call it for a vote and push for it...

He can say all day that he has changed his position but I will never believe it, especially since he included a bunch of the anti-gun stipulations in his so called concession bill, whats a few more concessions that are in line with his long standing position?  And it also takes the pressure off Lisa having to make a move...

[TFC]

Once this monstrosity becomes law, it will only take a simple majority to modify it.
The anti's know this.

[Elderberry]

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Once this monstrosity becomes law, it will only take a simple majority to modify it.
The anti's know this.

We have defeated every single bad gun bill for the last three years if my memory serves.  We just haven't passed a carry bill.  But we are going to.  And I see no reason to believe we will suddenly be unable to defeat bad legislation just because it takes fewer votes -- votes that they haven't had for the last 3 years...

[BobPistol]

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Once this monstrosity becomes law, it will only take a simple majority to modify it.
The anti's know this.

And that's the rub.

The victory is likely to be temporary.

[ike]

once we have the right ,it will be harder for them to take it away.not impossible,just harder

[TFC]

They only need one modification: Exemption of local preemption.
Everything could be undone after that.

[patriot1776]

BobPistol, on 26 May 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Once this monstrosity becomes law, it will only take a simple majority to modify it.
The anti's know this.

And that's the rub.

The victory is likely to be temporary.

Yep

[Elderberry]

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

They only need one modification: Exemption of local preemption.
Everything could be undone after that.

OH....   Well shucks that being the case I guess we should all just surrender now and give them back all of their bad bills that we kicked the crap out of the last three years.....

Since when did any gun law in this country come with a lifetime guarantee..??  We can't even count on the 2nd amendment -- we have to fight for everything we get....

[RockerXX]

BobPistol, on 26 May 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Once this monstrosity becomes law, it will only take a simple majority to modify it.
The anti's know this.

And that's the rub.

The victory is likely to be temporary.

Temporary or possibly never even put into play, as the antis have plenty of time to negate or draconianize the bill before the first permits would be ready...

This is why I keep cautioning people that are using false dichotomy and painting this as black and white, there are PLENTY of shades of gray this can and almost certainly will take before the dust settles...

[TFC]

There is one other element to consider.
This isn't just about guns.
It's about a fundamental shift in the democratic party.

[Elderberry]

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

There is one other element to consider.
This isn't just about guns.
It's about a fundamental shift in the democratic party.

I think you just nailed it.  

In fact, I think it is more about that shift than anything else -- guns just happen to be the catalyst...

[TFC]

The institutional, (in office for decades) hard core entrenched left are in just as much trouble as the institutional, (impose religion on people under weight of law)  extreme hard core right.

The Tea party came as a result. The liberal side can't seem to pull it together and generate a counterpart. But once they do, they will be far more pro-gun than even most of the conservative elements.

We need to keep control of the discussion, otherwise we could be doing this all over again next election.

[Elderberry]

TFC, on 26 May 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

The institutional, (in office for decades) hard core entrenched left are in just as much trouble as the institutional, (impose religion on people under weight of law)  extreme hard core right.

The Tea party came as a result. The liberal side can't seem to pull it together and generate a counterpart. But once they do, they will be far more pro-gun than even most of the conservative elements.

We need to keep control of the discussion, otherwise we could be doing this all over again next election.

As Captain Miller said in Saving Private Ryan:  "Reiben, pay attention.  This is the way to gripe"....

[officedrone]

I can't believe I heard Mike Madigan speak objectively. Maybe I've been wrong about him.

I really do hope we have his support because we'll need it if they're going to pass this thing.

[Elderberry]

Boy, Drone, me too....

I am keeping my fingers crossed.  He would not be the first politician in history to correctly gauge the winds of change and try to get out in front of it.  Right now I am keeping an open mind and crossed fingers         because         if he really has altered his position then he will be an incredible warrior to have on our side....

[TFC]

officedrone, on 26 May 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

I can't believe I heard Mike Madigan speak objectively. Maybe I've been wrong about him.

I really do hope we have his support because we'll need it if they're going to pass this thing.

A new political reality is setting in.
Those votes he got for the more restrictive bill were a message. Even the Cook County/Chicago area has enough pro Right to Carry to worry him.

We've seen 40 years of the same policy that does not work. Many democrats see that too.

[Elderberry]

People can say a lot of negative things about the Speaker -- I've said several -- but you cannot say he is stupid or doesn't understand politics or is ineffective at the game.  In fact, he is one of the best.  If his political senses tell him being a friend to gun owners will help his party then     well     I don't wanna say it and jinx anything...