Armed Security Training Applicability to the Proposed CCW Law?

[Burtonrider10022]

Any thoughts on how my armed security training will apply? I took the state recognized 40 hour training in July 2010, and held a Tan Card until Nov. 2012 when I changed employers. I'm guessing that I'll be required to at minimum re-qualify on the range, but will that be all?

 

I KNOW nothing is set in stone yet, which is why I haven't brought this up regarding the 37 other bills that have been written, but SB2193 has a legit chance of passing.

 

Thanks,

-James

[Burtonrider10022]

Hmmmm I've partially answered my own question...

 

(h) A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an

2 active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a

3 firearms instructor by this Act or the Illinois Law Enforcement

4 Training Standards Board, and a person who has completed the

5 required training and has been issued a firearm control card by

6 the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall

7 be exempt from the requirements of this Section.

 

"this section" is referring to Section 75, "Applicant firearm training." and is found on page 30 (aka Section 75, paragraph H).

 

So, I have completed the required training. I have been issued a firearm control card (Tan Card).

 

I just don't CURRENTLY have a tan card. I cannot find anything other than what I quoted in the bill regarding this. As it's written I am of the understanding that because I am a person that HAS BEEN issued a tan card, I am exempt from the new training requirements.

 

 

Am I wrong here?

[boog]

You are correct.

Boog

[JJ57]

Well this part is good to know. I currently have my card and it kinda frosted me that I have been carrying for 34 years, qualifying every 6 months for those 34 years. The thought of going through another 16 course (I still think it's ridiculous) was really pissing me off.

[Nic]

I was mistaken. Disregard.

[Tvandermyde]

you should be ok, but some of the details to work out over the summer

[Grey Beret]

I took the training but did not apply for the TAN card and I have a Florida permit which was why I took the training in the first place. That sounds good to me. I also have a friend that took two course of five days each at Gunsite. I think he might be ok too. lol The good thing about the 8 hours (could easily be less) is to instill in the people that a gun is a tool and with it comes responsibility to yourself and to the law. I would actually like to see the 16 hours done like night class in college and each class only a couple of hours long. Wearing the handgun in class would be part of the course. People who have not worn a handgun in another state or around the house needs some "hands on" experience of just having the weapon. Unloaded in class would be sufficient until the instructor gave the instruction to load. In fact, a "no ammo allowed" in the classroom would be good until the live fire drills.

[Capt_Destro]

you should be ok, but some of the details to work out over the summer

 

What if we only completed the training, got certified, and never pursued employment? Basically did the training but I do not have a tan card. I basically took it as an elective for college.

 

Sorry Grey I just seen your post, Im in the same situation but I did Utah instead of FL

[Burtonrider10022]

Thanks everyone for the input! Between the general consensus and then Todd giving our speculation some validity I think it's gunna work out well!

 

Hope you all enjoy your memorial day weekend!

[eric2281]

I'm going to subscribe to this topic. I took the 40hr class in Jan '11 but never held a FCC (TAN card). I've kept my PERC valid though. I hope the 40hr training would exempt me from an additional 16hrs.

[njr]

Read the language- there's an FCC/white card which you are issued by the IL whatchamacallit dept and the tan card which you are issued by the cockroach contractor/err, I mean security company owner. The FCC/white card is good enough for the purposes of the legislation, assuming they don't change that provision.

[colt-45]

I'm going to subscribe to this topic. I took the 40hr class in Jan '11 but never held a FCC (TAN card). I've kept my PERC valid though. I hope the 40hr training would exempt me from an additional 16hrs.

yea me to, i have the 20hr

[solareclipse2]

I find this all very interesting. I'm wondering if this "tan card" training would be less expensive than the 16 hr training that the bill calls for. Granted 20 hours is more time than 16 hours but I'd rather sacrifice the time instead of the money.

[Grey Beret]

I find this all very interesting. I'm wondering if this "tan card" training would be less expensive than the 16 hr training that the bill calls for. Granted 20 hours is more time than 16 hours but I'd rather sacrifice the time instead of the money.

It was a 40 hour course

[Capt_Destro]

I find this all very interesting. I'm wondering if this "tan card" training would be less expensive than the 16 hr training that the bill calls for. Granted 20 hours is more time than 16 hours but I'd rather sacrifice the time instead of the money.

It was a 40 hour course

 

Believe he was just talking about the Armed Portion.

20 hours unarmed, 20 hours armed training correct?

 

 

Moraine Valley Community College offers this as a class. So you should be able to get some form of financial aid for it if you are hurting for money in regards to training (if you qualify for it) I don't know how long they will leave this exemption open for.

 

We need the bill to pass the senate first.

[Grey Beret]

I find this all very interesting. I'm wondering if this "tan card" training would be less expensive than the 16 hr training that the bill calls for. Granted 20 hours is more time than 16 hours but I'd rather sacrifice the time instead of the money.

It was a 40 hour course

 

Believe he was just talking about the Armed Portion.

20 hours unarmed, 20 hours armed training correct?

 

Yep. You be correct Captn

[EricBarabicho]

I was asked for my 20 hour unarmed guard training certificate before being able to enroll in the 20 hour armed guard training.

[cowboybuckle]

I took the same thing several years ago...both 20 hour unarmed and he 20 hour was taken at the same time...

[Frank]

Read the language- there's an FCC/white card which you are issued by the IL whatchamacallit dept and the tan card which you are issued by the cockroach contractor/err, I mean security company owner. The FCC/white card is good enough for the purposes of the legislation, assuming they don't change that provision.

 

Incorrect.

 

IDFPR issues a "Certificate of Successful Completion of Statutorily Prescribed Firearms Training" after the 20 hour Security Firearms Course. It is a white certificate and lists weapon(s) qualified with (revolver, semiauto, shotgun, rifle) and location of training. This is issued to the student/employee by the state.

 

IDFPR issues a Firearms Control Card (FCC), formerly known as a Firearms Authorization Card (FAC), to the employing agency not the employee. This is the tan card that is required to be in your possession in order to work in an armed capacity.

 

I've had a tan card in my wallet for more than twenty years. I don't care to speculate what ISP would accept for training in this instance. My guess is that it will be as restrictive as possible, but that is just a guess.

 

-- Frank

 

 

 

Edit: Here's a link to look up your training certificates, PERC or FCC.

[solareclipse2]

 

Believe he was just talking about the Armed Portion.

20 hours unarmed, 20 hours armed training correct?

 

 

Moraine Valley Community College offers this as a class. So you should be able to get some form of financial aid for it if you are hurting for money in regards to training (if you qualify for it) I don't know how long they will leave this exemption open for.

 

We need the bill to pass the senate first.

 

I'm just cheap, LOL.

[njr]

Ah, I stand corrected. Well, that sucks for me, and tens of thousands of others who decided not to work a dangerous job for as little as $10/hr.

 

 

 

FrankW:

 

 

Incorrect.

[TANGO19DB4]

I too need some help understanding the / when it becomes Law.

I work for Exelon Nuclear Security been in my career for 11yrs now.

We do not get Tan / White or PERC cards. We are armed w ARs and sidearms ( no OPSEC here ) as u can see us at our Securiry Checkpoints.)

We ( the Company ) only requires us to have a FOID. I have never been able to get a straight answer as to why ?!

So we are required to be trained, maintain quarterly and annual quals for said firearms.

I am sure NO ONE at work has a clue as how this CCW training will apply to those of us, who wish to seek the permit.

We are NOT transporting weapons to and from work / residences.

This is for the individual who has recieved NRA LLEA required training to be Armed at a Nuke Facility.

 

Sorry if it seems lengthy, i want to make it clear.

Can I use my training to apply for the permit without needing to pay out-of-pocket for training from some local instructor / school ?

 

[pdpsc]

Nuclear sites and their security personnel are regulated by the NRC. Nuclear security is an exemption from UUW. The funny thing is that the way that exemption is written, there is no time and place limitations on that exemption unlike the FCC exemption from UUW.

[Burtonrider10022]

Nuclear sites and their security personnel are regulated by the NRC. Nuclear security is an exemption from UUW. The funny thing is that the way that exemption is written, there is no time and place limitations on that exemption unlike the FCC exemption from UUW.

 

They don't really need time & place limits because most GSA security contracts require that the duty weapons be stored on premises when off duty. As he said, he doesn't transport to/from, and the guys that I know that may or may not be associated in some/way/shape/form with the DoD also do not.

[TANGO19DB4]

the Q? is / was about Can I use the training I have recieved over my years of Employment as certifcation to apply for the CCW permit without paying for it out of my own pocket to some local instructor.

 

these are Q? I get at work from Officers that are not really following all the CCW BS.

 

I mentioned once before in another thread, at 1-point there was an exemption for prior service members needing to take / attend training so long as they could provide documentation in their 201 file / DD214 as having recieved pistol training.

 

Dont care about NRC reg this that, GSA BS

My Q? is pretty straight forward in both posts.

[Burtonrider10022]

And the legislation is changing by the minute. There is no correct answer. I started the thread asking about 2193, and that Bill is now dead. Who knows what the final bill will say? Any answer is just pure speculation.

[Frank]

Nuclear sites and their security personnel are regulated by the NRC. Nuclear security is an exemption from UUW. The funny thing is that the way that exemption is written, there is no time and place limitations on that exemption unlike the FCC exemption from UUW.

 

They don't really need time & place limits because most GSA security contracts require that the duty weapons be stored on premises when off duty. As he said, he doesn't transport to/from, and the guys that I know that may or may not be associated in some/way/shape/form with the DoD also do not.

 

Nuclear power plants are private companies governed by the NRC. Excelon uses an in-house private security force. GSA security contracts are only for protecting federal buildings and federal executive branch agencies. Not all GSA contracts require the weapons to be stored on-site.

 

I don't know when IL changed the law regarding armed security at nuclear plants. When I left one of the Excelon plants in 1999, we were required to have FOID, PERC and FAC (FCC) cards issued by the state. Now, PERC and FCC cards are no longer required.

 

-- Frank

[Tango7]

The final version as I undestand it (from ILGA):

 

 

Section 75. Applicant firearm training.

 

(a) Within 60 days of the effective date of this Act, the Department shall begin approval of firearm training courses and shall make a list of approved courses available of the Department's website.

 

(b..) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 16 hours,which includes range qualification time under subsection (C..) of this Section, that covers the following:

 

(1) firearm safety;

 

(2) the basic principles of marksmanship;

 

(3) care, cleaning, loading, and unloading of a concealable firearm;

 

(4) all applicable State and federal laws relating to the ownership, storage, carry, and transportation of a firearm; and

 

(5) instruction on the appropriate and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or carrying a concealed firearm.

 

(c..) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:

 

(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and

 

(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.

 

(d) An applicant for renewal of a license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 3 hours.

 

(g) The Department and certified firearms instructor shall recognize up to 8 hours of training already completed toward the 16 hour training requirement under this Section if the training course is approved by the Department and recognized under the laws of another state.

 

(h) A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a firearms instructor by this Act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section.

 

(i) The Department shall accept 8 hours of training as completed toward the 16 hour training requirement under this Section, if the applicant is an active, retired, or honorably discharged member of the United States Armed Forces.

[usmcss]

Just throwing this out there as I can't determine if I am going to have to take the 8 hours training after presenting my DD-214.

 

After my Military service I worked for the Illinois Department Of Corrections for 6 years. I have the 240 Academy Training Certificate. Those 240 hours included Firearms Training. I also have a certificate from the Academy for shooting the Range High.

 

I have a White Card that has the Name of the prison I worked for at the top, and states Weapons Qualifications and Authorization then lists weapons I qualified with which include a .38 Pistol.

 

States at the bottom This employee is authorized to receive the above weapons. DCA 146 IL 426- 1126 (Rev. 12/87)

 

Was also a Sniper and Marksmanship instructor in the Military which I am thinking doesn't do me a bit of good?

 

Thanks in advance!