abolt243 Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:44 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:44 AM We learned something today. When you hear those ^^ words after a hotly debated bill, you can rest assured that the bill is about to recieve no less than 80 votes. Actually, we should have learned several things today. If you weren't able to listen to the closing comments of the Speaker, slip over to Blueroomstream livestream and have a listen. Takes about 12 minutes. (I noticed that Mr. Madigan was not encouraged to bring his comments to a close!!) Pay attention to the strategy, the compromises that were reached, and the fact that every faction got something to take home. Nobody got everything, but everyone got parts of the agenda they wanted. We need to remember that going forward. Of the many points that I'll not go into, let me point out one that I think is important to everyone here. The speaker recounted the failure of the anti gunner bill that only recieved 31 votes (I forget the bill number) and the near success of 997. He declared that there were 75 votes on the bill, until the Speaker worked against us and took away 11 of those votes. And it was done in a matter of a couple of hours. We all, from Todd , Molly and Mike, Rich Pearson, Jim Vinopal, and the rest of the Springfield crew down to the last one of us here on this board, should be proud of the fact that we had that many votes on the bill. We can further be proud of the fact that it appears that the fact that we created such support convinced the Speaker that he needed to look harder at Concealed Carry and change his position from flatly opposed to willing to work something out. A law that had something for everyone. Great Job guys!! No, the bill's not perfect as proven by the fact that there has been more traffic on this board than at any other time in it's history. And much of it was bi***in' and bellyachin' about a pet part of the law that someone didn't want to see changed. However, if this bill gains passage in the Senate and survives any veto attempt by Quinn, Illinois will be starting with a better carry law than most of the East Coast states have lived with for many years and a good base to begin to amend and "fix". And, kudos to the Speaker. No, I don't care for his political positions. I fully place much of the blame for the situation that the state finds itself in squarely at his feet. He's been a leader for 28 years, he's had opportunity to take us in a different direction. But, on today's issue, he exhibited his strategy making skills and his ability to play the political arena like a fiddle. "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer". <taking notes furiously>Tim
gangrel Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:49 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:49 AM Cheers, Tim! She ain't perfect, but I think we can make 'er work...
Lou Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:50 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:50 AM Thanks for the words of wisdom Tim. I for one appreciate a voice of reason.
Jfl0 Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:51 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:51 AM Great post Tim. It is disgusting, isn't it? How these Illinois politicians work. I'd say a bunch of things about Madigan, but they are nothing new to readers of the forum. Support or Oppose, I am proud of the influence IC,NRA,ISRA and friends have had in pushing Madigan into this compromise. My forecast isn't pretty for this Bill's survival in the Senate, but I am cautiously optimistic that we can pass this bill and begin the framework of fixing the unconstitutionalities.
45 whit Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:55 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:55 AM Thanks abolt! Very good read...I was heartened by that speech Madigan gave and I kind of took from that he won't be trying to pull a fast one on us. Am I being too naive with that thought?
xd9subcompact Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:58 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:58 AM So technically, 997 is not dead, right? If the senate were to shoot down 2193, and then the house reciprocated by shooting down 183, 997 could be quickly passed by the house and sent to the senate, the let them be the ones who did the final kill job causing the cliff? 997 did leave the Chicago CFP, AWB, etc. B.S. intact except for shall issue and no local say so over issuances. I ask because it now sounds like Cullerton is more concerned with keeping the CFP and AWB in place that the rest of it.
Grey Beret Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:00 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:00 AM You stated it very well abolt.
Tim4k5 Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:11 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:11 AM So technically, 997 is not dead, right? If the senate were to shoot down 2193, and then the house reciprocated by shooting down 183, 997 could be quickly passed by the house and sent to the senate, the let them be the ones who did the final kill job causing the cliff? 997 did leave the Chicago CFP, AWB, etc. B.S. intact except for shall issue and no local say so over issuances. I ask because it now sounds like Cullerton is more concerned with keeping the CFP and AWB in place that the rest of it. Sure, theoretically 997 could be brought back to the table.......but theoretically we could get hit by an asteroid tonight that moots the whole discussion. Madigan has the game played out already, all we can do is hold on and watch. And very well said Abolt!!
xd9subcompact Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:13 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:13 AM This is IL. An asteroid is a definite possibility if it keeps us from getting Concealed carry.
cls74 Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:13 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:13 AM So technically, 997 is not dead, right? If the senate were to shoot down 2193, and then the house reciprocated by shooting down 183, 997 could be quickly passed by the house and sent to the senate, the let them be the ones who did the final kill job causing the cliff? 997 did leave the Chicago CFP, AWB, etc. B.S. intact except for shall issue and no local say so over issuances. I ask because it now sounds like Cullerton is more concerned with keeping the CFP and AWB in place that the rest of it. They'd just gut and replace HB997 if that happened. Would have to use SBxxxx shell bill. For all intents and purposes I would think 997 is done. And thanks to everyone behind the scenes and all of the longtime members of this board for their efforts both then and now. Until the 7th's ruling and the underhanded Acevedo AWB bill back in January I've let myself believe Illinois would never have true gun rights, we've got a long way to go yet but you guys have given us what we have now. I vow to never slip back under the rug and let it return without a fight.
TheDaveFactor Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:14 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:14 AM So technically, 997 is not dead, right? If the senate were to shoot down 2193, and then the house reciprocated by shooting down 183, 997 could be quickly passed by the house and sent to the senate, the let them be the ones who did the final kill job causing the cliff? 997 did leave the Chicago CFP, AWB, etc. B.S. intact except for shall issue and no local say so over issuances. I ask because it now sounds like Cullerton is more concerned with keeping the CFP and AWB in place that the rest of it. They'd just gut and replace HB997 if that happened. Would have to use SBxxxx shell bill. For all intents and purposes I would think 997 is done. And thanks to everyone behind the scenes and all of the longtime members of this board for their efforts both then and now. Until the 7th's ruling and the underhanded Acevedo AWB bill back in January I've let myself believe Illinois would never have true gun rights, we've got a long way to go yet but you guys have given us what we have now. I vow to never slip back under the rug and let it return without a fight. Yup. The Senate would gut 997 just like the House did to 2193. 997 is dead.
Tim4k5 Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:21 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:21 AM This is IL. An asteroid is a definite possibility if it keeps us from getting Concealed carry. LoL......That would make for a good test of JUST how much power Madigan has
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:24 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:24 AM I don't think the Speaker changed his position due to altruism. It was a political move pure and simple. He's a shrewd politician, I'll give him that.
VannDaddy Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:30 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:30 AM What's stopping Quinn from amending this bill by adding UBC, AWB, and Hi-Cap Mag Ban and then signing and sending back for Madigan to push through both chambers?
Neumann Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:38 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:38 AM What's stopping Quinn from amending this bill by adding UBC, AWB, and Hi-Cap Mag Ban and then signing and sending back for Madigan to push through both chambers? Quinn has a dismal record with amendatory veto in the Assembly. The legislature doesn't like the governor playing in their sandbox. Besides, there are enough votes in the house on first pass to override, and probably the senate as well. Don't forget, Madigan is looking out for daughter Lisa, who will be running against Quinn. By the way, Illinois requires background checks at gun shows, and private sellers to document that they checked for a FOID card, and maintain records for ten years. That's 95% of UBC, less the fees and registration.
abolt243 Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:41 AM Author Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:41 AM What's stopping Quinn from amending this bill by adding UBC, AWB, and Hi-Cap Mag Ban and then signing and sending back for Madigan to push through both chambers? Quinn's amendatory vetoes don't have a very stellar performance recently. If you haven't noticed, there's not much love lost between Quinn and Madigan.
Pipedoc Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:42 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:42 AM Fighting gun control. Over twenty years.Donations of hard earned cash to the cause. Thousands.Listening to Speaker Madigan supporting shall issue and preemption on the floor. Priceless!
TheDaveFactor Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:59 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:59 AM What's stopping Quinn from amending this bill by adding UBC, AWB, and Hi-Cap Mag Ban and then signing and sending back for Madigan to push through both chambers? No way Madigan will let that happen. It would make Quinn the hero in the fight. Madigan's end goal has got to be to weaken Quinn even further, for Lisa.
GlockShooter Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:05 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:05 AM My best guess is that Quinn is playing the role he's expected to for the media, but knows he isn't really steering the ship. Time will tell.
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:07 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:07 AM Much like the Queen of England. He has no real power (they can over ride his vetos), but he shows up at photo ops. *want to say something else, but ad hominem attacks are not allowed...*
DoktorPaimon Posted May 25, 2013 at 07:22 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 07:22 AM No way Madigan will let that happen. It would make Quinn the hero in the fight. Madigan's end goal has got to be to weaken Quinn even further, for Lisa. Whats to stop Quinn? Right now Quinn needs to make a decision: either he can sign the bill and try to save some votes down state in the primary or he can fight and try to ear some votes in Chicago and the North Shore. If he signs the bill he's a liar, if he vetoes it he's a weakling when it gets overturned. There is no positive way out for him. The least politically damaging route for him is to have a last minute change of heart and sign it with reservations, thus denying Madigan the ability to point out his lack of leadership when he gets beaten down.
Elderberry Posted May 25, 2013 at 07:43 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 07:43 AM What's stopping Quinn from amending this bill by adding UBC, AWB, and Hi-Cap Mag Ban and then signing and sending back for Madigan to push through both chambers? Great post, Tim... Very well said.... So, what's to stop Quinn -- The fact that Mike Madigan very publicly acknowledged that he was reversing his 20 year active opposition to concealed carry legislation to a position of supporting concealed carry. He would not do that and then allow himself to get his boots peed on by someone like Jello. Make no mistake about it, this bill might have been presented by Brandon Phelps but it will now forever be the Mike Madigan Concealed Carry bill. It was assembled and constructed by the master -- a man who just took home rule away from Chicago (home city for the President of the United States) on ALL firearms related issues for evermore and didn't even break a sweat doing it -- that is not someone who will break a sweat over Quinn either....
BShawn Posted May 25, 2013 at 07:46 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 07:46 AM I did notice how when almost anyone else is talking/debating there are people doing ANYTHING but listening. From eating, to playing on their computer, to being on their cell phone etc etc etc... I took strong notice to how when the King spoke, everybody 'fell in line'... (All I can say is) Wow...
kevinmcc Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM I did notice how when almost anyone else is talking/debating there are people doing ANYTHING but listening. From eating, to playing on their computer, to being on their cell phone etc etc etc... I took strong notice to how when the King spoke, everybody 'fell in line'... (All I can say is) Wow... Actually I find this quite disgusting. They all enable Madigan to behave like that. Why are you allowing that people? Standup for yourselves and your representatives.
XJBluto Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:27 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:27 AM Quinn is cowering under the cloud of Mike Madigan. His chest thumping theatrics are just that......... Next, the Senate sends a super majority to The Mighty Quinn . If he falls on his sword and plays all in with a pair of deuces, he hands the race to Lisa on a velvet pillow. No way Quinn beats Lisa. There are enough Chicago Democrats that are begging for conceal carry that Lisa and the Chicago machine defeat Quinn no less than 3-1. This is now not about guns for Quinn (the next ex-governor to do prison time), it is about 2014. Bwahahahahahahaha . Mike is all in with a Royal flush.
cyclist Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM Thanks Tim! Could you please post the lbluestream link you mentioned. I am pleased with the bill, although its not perfect. It's more than what I expected and would have never expected Madigan to have voted in favor. I would like to see the entire debate and vote as well as the closing. I'm off today for another 16 hrs of GSL intermediate training today. That will make 32 total. Carrying is a huge responsibility and I welcome a sound education. I feel this bill places Illinois fairly in comparison to each of the states that I have carried in surrounding us. We have a good basis to improve from.
WindyCityGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM Does anyone have a list of the 11 who Madigan "turned"? We need to work hard against those people in 2014.
sirflyguy Posted May 25, 2013 at 11:02 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 11:02 AM I was under the impression this had already passed the Senate, and now that it has passed the house, it goes back only to approve the changes (which are slight) that the House made, and that nothing else can be added/amended. Am I incorrect? So many things have been flying around here that it gets confusing...
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