47 replies to this topic

[Nic]

RockerXX, on 25 May 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Since the new proposed bill will require, the removal from concealed holster, the removal of the magazine, and the cambering of the live round out of the firearm before existing the vehicle, and the reverse of loading the firearm and placing it back in the holster again all while seated in the confides of a vehicle, there should be IMO a huge focus on doing those procedure inside the confides of a vehicle in the sitting position...  IMO this clause of the bill is simply horrid and poses a huge risk to accidental discharges...

I can say in my Vette doing this will be NOTHING but a pain in the butt, there simply is not that much wiggle room in the seat, although doing it in my Hummer will be pretty darn easy...  I'm also curious how this is going to be done on a motorcycle, I guess the entire process will have to be done while still straddling the seat, and I can only imagine the looks on peoples faces when you do this on a motorcycle in plain view...

Where is this provision? Thanks.

[RockerXX]

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Where is this provision? Thanks.

Section 69, in regards to prohibited places, parking lots and storage...

Quote

A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle.

Edited by RockerXX, Today, 03:58 PM.

[flw]

I am a motorcycle rider and do have hard locked bags, so the procedure for a bike is very interesting to me for pulling into a no carry zone and disarming myself legally. I cannot reach my locked bags from the seat without getting off first (still caring hot)

[cgs]

10 hours of advanced pistol training including double taps, stress drills, shooting from cover, various reloads, maybe some idpa, and all the other cool stuff the pros do on tv, and then 6 hours of class room time when I can ask someone with a brain to answer my 99 questions about the bill language.

Edited by cgs, Today, 04:00 PM.

[Mrs. Federal Farmer]

flw, on 25 May 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Mrs. Federal Farmer, on 25 May 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

flw, on 25 May 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

If I could add on one thing, it would be to safely draw from a holster. Not required for testing but for all our safety it would be a needed add on.

Actually it's required for testing in my classes and not an add on. Why? Because it a) increases the safety of all and increases the student's confidence which c) increases the safety of all.

For those that intend to pocket carry, how is a student graded with passing or failing? Smoothness, speed, and or other? I ask because short of being smooth in the draw, I don't see how a instructor could grade a draw. Please educate me on the testing part.

Safety, consistency and efficiency.

• Safety -- Does the student draw in a way that maintains his own safety and that of those around him (whether he is aware of those others or not)
  
• Consistency -- Has the student mastered familiarity and his procedure of drawing such that he can depend on his ability without need to think?
  
• Efficiency -- Does the student's draw work for him? Some aspects of a draw differ from person to person; dependent, for example on gender differences and other body parameters

[cgs]

Ron, on 24 May 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Can either be live (expensive) or taped, but I would like to see a presentation done by a (very good) criminal defense attorney on how to handle oneself should that dreaded day occur where you are forced to use your firearm in a true self defense situation.  (i.e., what to say/what not to say to authorities so it doesn't turn from a self defense situation into something a lot worse).

[Nic]

cgs, on 25 May 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Ron, on 24 May 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Can either be live (expensive) or taped, but I would like to see a presentation done by a (very good) criminal defense attorney on how to handle oneself should that dreaded day occur where you are forced to use your firearm in a true self defense situation.  (i.e., what to say/what not to say to authorities so it doesn't turn from a self defense situation into something a lot worse).

Armed Citizens Defense League.

[Nic]

RockerXX, on 25 May 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Where is this provision? Thanks.

Section 69, in regards to prohibited places, parking lots and storage...

Quote

A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle.

Thanks. My apologies, I misunderstood and thought that you meant that the draw from holster in vehicle was required training.

[RockerXX]

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I misunderstood and thought that you meant that the draw from holster in vehicle was required training.

IMO it should be required training, as IMO that action is likely to be the single leading cause of accidental discharge since it's a requirement in this bill and the frequency that many will be performing this action isn't going to be minimal...  The potential for injury is huge, IMO...

Edited by RockerXX, Today, 04:15 PM.

[skinnyb82]

We NEED use of force education.  Lots of new FOID card holders will be carrying.  Last thing we need are skiddish newbies pulling their EDC on someone walking behind them or whatever.  IL specific too.

Drawing from a holster (dry), NOT muzzle sweeping everyone, and reholstering too.  I know people who have shot themselves after slamming their pistol back into the holster.  Movement, stance (that's really not as big of an issue because if you can hit a target then I don't really care if its weaver, isosceles or some derivation), etc.  Field stripping and cleaning your weapon is essential.  I dunno I'll think of more.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[Nic]

RockerXX, on 25 May 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I misunderstood and thought that you meant that the draw from holster in vehicle was required training.

IMO it should be required training, as IMO that action is likely to be the single leading cause of accidental discharge since it's a requirement in this bill and the frequency that many will be performing this action isn't going to be minimal...  The potential for injury is huge, IMO...

Last thing we need is mandated training broken down to bullet points. Some people don't have cars and will be carrying. Why force them to do something that they won't need.

Personally, I plan on "teaching" it but I won't want to be forced to teach it to every student.

Edited by Nic, Today, 04:36 PM.

[RockerXX]

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Why force them to do something that they won't need.

So why have any training requirements at all?  Using your logic why teach someone how to holster the gun when they won't use a holster?  Why teach someone how to use a semi-auto if they are only going to use an revolver?  Why teach them about prohibited places if they don't plan to carry beyond their front yard? Why have more then the 5-10 minutes of range time it would take me to qualify on the B27 target? And the list could go on and on...

Fact is if a course is going to be worth it's weight it should have a curriculum that covers as MANY of the possibly subjects as it can, especially subject and actions that are a requirement of the law to be in compliance, that is unless the students are pre-screened and divided into unique and specific classes based on their requirements...

Edited by RockerXX, Today, 05:03 PM.

[Tvandermyde]

Glock 18 practise

[ming]

Tvandermyde, on 25 May 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Glock 18 practise

if you can find/afford the ammo!

[TyGuy]

Like this?

Me at the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot

Glock18
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=fZ9yphY-kuY

Glock 18 first person
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=d07BPEcYHk8

Edited by TyGuy, Today, 06:00 PM.

[wtr100]

I wish / hope they will all us Joe Weekend NRA instructors to teach the IL portion of the training - market forces will tend to drive down the price - if they only let the 'pros' do it I could see it being quite expensive

Not holding my breath

[cgs]

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

cgs, on 25 May 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Ron, on 24 May 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Can either be live (expensive) or taped, but I would like to see a presentation done by a (very good) criminal defense attorney on how to handle oneself should that dreaded day occur where you are forced to use your firearm in a true self defense situation.  (i.e., what to say/what not to say to authorities so it doesn't turn from a self defense situation into something a lot worse).

Armed Citizens Defense League.

Sure, but why not have it included in the training. 16 hours is alot to fill.

[Nic]

RockerXX, on 25 May 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Nic, on 25 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Why force them to do something that they won't need.

So why have any training requirements at all?  Using your logic why teach someone how to holster the gun when they won't use a holster?  Why teach someone how to use a semi-auto if they are only going to use an revolver?  Why teach them about prohibited places if they don't plan to carry beyond their front yard? Why have more then the 5-10 minutes of range time it would take me to qualify on the B27 target? And the list could go on and on...

Fact is if a course is going to be worth it's weight it should have a curriculum that covers as MANY of the possibly subjects as it can, especially subject and actions that are a requirement of the law to be in compliance, that is unless the students are pre-screened and divided into unique and specific classes based on their requirements...

I believe the Chicago contingent of the House would agree with you. They were the ones advocating 40 hours minimum. No one would graduate from the course under your approach because they cannot learn everything.

Your approach to mandated training is completely in line with current Democratic Party politics. I'm more of a "libertarian" when it comes to mandated training. I'm all for more training, but I don't want to government to force me teach a specific curriculum. I do t think we're arguing the same argument.

I am talking about the government mandated training minimum requirements for CCW. You are talking about "general" training.

Edited by Nic, Today, 07:25 PM.