flw Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:07 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:07 AM During the committee hearing Brandon Phelps used a phrase over and over, the phrase "Safe Harbor". Per Brandon, that is the area around your car, in a no carry zone, where you can be in or walk around to lockup your gun in the trunk. The phrase is not in the bill, ever. During the hearing he described the concept in detail but lacked two critical details. Detail one. How far from your car does this bubble of "Safe Harbor" go in feet? We don't want each LEO to have to figure it out for themselves or do we? Detail two. How much time does one have to get to the trunck and disarm one self? Does each LEO have to guess what is reasonable? I hope not. These may seem like petty details but when the first guy stops to have a cigarette or suddenly gets a phone call that interrupt this process, it will make all the difference between two different outcomes. I don't care about the amount of time or distance but I do want to know what it is before the bill is passed into law..
Davey Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:17 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:17 AM It'll probably end up being one of things that willbe challenged in a law suit after someone gets pinched.
Dave D Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:18 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:18 AM Its all going to boil down to the leo that has it out for you. Period. You say petty details, the lawyers (and reps) call it splitting hairs... Thats what lawyers do....
RoadyRunner Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:20 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:20 AM The bill describes having the firearm outside of the car for the limited purpose of placing it into the trunk. It also states that the firearm must be unloaded before editing the car. So, still loaded when you step out? Violation.Step away from the car (direction other than towards the trunk) - Violation. My choice. Lock box in the car. Secure it loaded before I exit the vehicle. Replace into holster when I return to the car. Hope I don't get jacked in between I guess.
dorvinion Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:22 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:22 AM Avoid the issue entirely Install a small safe under the seat, or toss it in glove box. Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
C0untZer0 Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:34 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:34 AM Brandon Phelps calls it "Safe Harbor" Gary McCarthy calls it "Brandishing"
RoadyRunner Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:35 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:35 AM Avoid the issue entirely Install a small safe under the seat, or toss it in glove box. Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2I've done that already. Only difference is, with a permit in hand I wouldn't have to leave it unloaded - or leave it in the 'safe' unless I'm leaving the car unattended.
BobPistol Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:44 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 01:44 AM It'll probably end up being one of things that willbe challenged in a law suit after someone gets pinched beaten to a pulp by a Chicago cop. FIFY
Xwing Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:16 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:16 AM Brandon Phelps calls it "Safe Harbor" Gary McCarthy calls it "Brandishing" I'm glad Brandon in in the legislature, and McCarthy is not. Legislative intent will be a big help to the attorneys for the first couple people arrested while putting a gun in their trunk (or similar). It's not perfect. But there's a good reason those questions were asked and spelled out. And the words "safe harbor" were not uttered randomly.
vess1 Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:45 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:45 AM Some of you guys act like the boogie man's going to be hiding behind every bush and lamp post just waiting for you to show up so they can pat you down. Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2
drdoom Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:56 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 02:56 AM nothing like having a round in the chamber and no mag in the gun
03rev Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:07 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:07 AM Some of you guys act like the boogie man's going to be hiding behind every bush and lamp post just waiting for you to show up so they can pat you down. Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2 That's what I've been thinking lol.
vactor Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:12 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:12 AM Some of you guys act like the boogie man's going to be hiding behind every bush and lamp post just waiting for you to show up so they can pat you down. Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2 That's what I've been thinking lol. Welcome to Chicago and McCarthy and Alvarez.
BobPistol Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:26 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:26 AM Some of you guys act like the boogie man's going to be hiding behind every bush and lamp post just waiting for you to show up so they can pat you down. Hi! Welcome to Chicago. Human rights not allowed here. Unless you bribed the right politicians. See that white car with blue stripes and red letters, with the nice little blue lights on top? They're cops. Don't tell them you have a gun unless you are a crony or have nice health insurance
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:30 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:30 AM Section 65 paragraph b. Read it. :-)
flw Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:44 AM Author Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:44 AM Section 65 paragraph b. Read it. :-) This is the copy that I know of at http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/SB/09800SB2193ham001.htm Is there a more updated version since Brandon put the original out? If so please post link. I ask because section 65 in the link above doesn't match what tvguy is refering to (I think).
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:51 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:51 AM See page 24. That is Section 65, Paragraph b IDK what you are looking at? Are you looking at the page numbers?
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:53 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:53 AM PAGE 65 deals with mental health denials and definitions. You need SECTION 65. I think that's the confusion. :-)
Ron Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:57 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 03:57 AM Some of you guys act like the boogie man's going to be hiding behind every bush and lamp post just waiting for you to show up so they can pat you down. Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2 LOL
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:01 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:01 AM Some of you guys act like the boogie man's going to be hiding behind every bush and lamp post just waiting for you to show up so they can pat you down. Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2 LOLNo, but criminals would be wise to stake out public parking lots near Metra stations and the like. As Rep Bost said today, criminals are cowards and break ins to unattended vehicles go up when CCW is passed. If I was a criminal I would sure as heck watch for people unloading in or near their vehicles, wait for them to leave, and then break in and get a free gun to sell. Again the public transport ban is the worst part of SB2193, but something we'll apparently have to live with for the foreseeable future.
Drylok Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:11 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:11 AM Much to do with nothing. If you're that freaked out about it because of where you live then move. Better yet don't move because this law applies equally across the state.
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:14 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:14 AM I think you mean Much Ado About Nothing. It doesn't affect me. I don't take public transport, but I can see this part leading to a surge in stolen firearms. The bill states that you can't use the restroom at the train station to unload. You have to do it in your car. Either you try to do it in the car secretly or you do it outside your car, right next to it. That will either freak people out or allow a criminal to see what you are doing. How do YOU propose people that must use public transportation deal with it?
flw Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:15 AM Author Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:15 AM See page 24. That is Section 65, Paragraph b IDK what you are looking at? Are you looking at the page numbers? So is the link I have the most current version that is available to the general public? http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/SB/09800SB2193ham001.htm
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:21 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:21 AM That link looks to be Amendment 1. Amendment 2 is more recent, but is mostly technical changes. A1 gives you the gist, but I would just A2 from now on. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/SB/09800SB2193ham002.htm
flw Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:25 AM Author Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:25 AM That link looks to be Amendment 1. Amendment 2 is more recent, but is mostly technical changes. A1 gives you the gist, but I would just A2 from now on. http://www.ilga.gov/...B2193ham002.htm Thanks for the updated version.
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:29 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:29 AM No problem. Do you understand the section, paragraph, subsection part yet? For example, here is Section 65, Paragraph a, Sub-Section 1 (1) Any building, real property, and parking area under 5 the control of a public or private elementary or secondary 6 school.
C0untZer0 Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:30 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:30 AM Did you guys forget that the Chicago Police arrested a completely innocent man for AGGRAVATED UUW when he was lawfully transporting his firearm in checked baggage on a Greyhound bus? I am probably not going to have to "Safe Harbor" anything in DuPage County to begin with - it's Chicago with all the restricted places, but if I did have to do a safe harbor maneuver in my town I don't think the cops would hassle me. I'm pretty sure they will in Chicago... Chicago cops have hassled police from other departments about having guns, when those police were traveling through Chicago. I think you an count on them doing their part to bring about case law that will more thoroughly define safe harbor.
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:33 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:33 AM That's possible. The arrest people for following the law already. I doubt that will change.
flw Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:42 AM Author Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:42 AM No problem. Do you understand the section, paragraph, subsection part yet? For example, here is Section 65, Paragraph a, Sub-Section 1 (1) Any building, real property, and parking area under 5 the control of a public or private elementary or secondary 6 school. I just did a search using cut and paste and don't see your text. I know it must be there. What page is this on? Edit: I found it.
TyGuy Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:46 AM Posted May 25, 2013 at 04:46 AM Just search for part of it. The 5 is a line number and could throw your search off. Search for "public or private elementary" and see what happens.
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